I suppose there in lies the difference. We have different priorities. I understand your point of view even though I disagree with it, but I'm of the opinion that we should be trying to prevent spread to anyone, including children, and you are not.
No matter what it'll be interesting to see how things work out, they're going to have to do something for schools.
I know this probably isn't helpful but in all of this it's assumed that when the kids are in school things are continuing as normal. In fact the basics have become very difficult and many teachers are struggling to get anything taught.
The job depends on being able to communicate. This is very difficult when you arrive to a class late and out of breath because you had to cross the school between classes and wrestle with some IT that has a different set of idiosyncrasies from the IT in the room you just left. Then you stand at the front of the room and shout at them so the ones at the back can hear you through the mask. Can't hear a bloody word they say in reply. It's probably not so bad for the ones we got to know before covid, at least we had some sort of functioning relationship, but for all 1st yrs and 2nd yrs, and an awful lot of TYs, 5th yrs and LCs the teacher is a stranger.
You can't correct work then and there in the class because you can't hear them if they read it out and you can't go down to their desks. You take work up, wait three days, correct it and give it back three days later. They barely glance at it because it's ancient history to them.
Staggered breaks mean I often teach a 40 min class with a 15 min break in the middle of it. Mask breaks, sanitising desks and dealing with the problems the kids have with Teams etc. all eat into class time.
Eating my lunch in my car is lonely and depressing but the staffroom is overcrowded. I know that doesn't directly affect the kids' experience of school but it's taking its toll on me.
I mean keep kids out if they're symptomatic or test positive. I realise that will increase spread. I'm fine with that, under the circumstances.
Covid is everywhere now. We are not doing everything we can to limit spread. A vaccinated friend of mine got it last week from an "outdoor" area in a pub, probably from one of his group who had sniffles and went out regardless. I cannot countenance keeping kids out of school to protect the adult population from infection when those adults (not necessarily the most vulnerable adults, admittedly) are freely mixing and spreading Covid themselves.
We have effective vaccines available to everyone over 12 who wants them. They're not perfect and people will continue to get infected and a tiny minority of them will die. That is both inevitable and tolerable. This pandemic has deranged our attitude to disease. Who knew or cared about the numbers of flu patients in hospital in 2019? Almost nobody. And yet now we have daily reporting of COVID hospital numbers in national media. Until we had vaccines this derangement was useful. It is no longer so.
I don't want further disruption to education either. To be fair I think we're both on the same side in that regard. I disagree strongly with allowing unmitigated spread though
What do you mean by sick vs well? Some kids can be positive and not be unwell at all, should they be sent in? Without testing close contacts there's no way of knowing if they are positive unless they become unwell.
8 students had to be sent home from our school last week with coughs. They hadn't been tested just sent in. 3 haven't come back in. The others had negative tests/cameback without symptoms. Not everyone is responsible.
My plan is to keep sick kids home and send well kids to school. If that results in more spread, so be it.
I've seen first hand the damage that education disruption caused last year, and in my opinion that outweighs concerns about Covid risks in the under 12s.
I agree with your suggestion of antigen testing close contacts. I've been doing it myself the last few days, as I am a vaccinated, asymptomatic close contact. I'm not required to, but IMO it's the responsible thing to do.
Read up. I've already offered two solutions. Neither of which might actually be possible but I do think somesort of solution needs to be found. What's your plan? Declare "it's too much hassle" and stick your head in the sand?
So what's your plan then? Continue indefinitely to exclude tens of thousands of perfectly healthy kids from school in order to prevent a handful of hospitalisations?
That would be deranged, and it's not going to happen.
Vaccination helps mitagate illness if infected, there's some evidence it reduces transmission. As does restricting the movements of close contacts. Why would we not try prevent those who are vulnerable and/or unvaccinated from being infected? It is so selfish not to. As well as this the more it spreads the more chance of mutation/more troublesome strain which is bad for all of us.
Teachers and family members should be vaccinated, aside from some edge cases.
I don't have an answer for vulnerable children, but close contact restrictions are failing to make schools safe for them now.
We currently have a maximally vaccinated adult population, and a good proportion of over 12s. It's early autumn. If we're not going to relax close contact restrictions now, when will be a good time? Do we just plough on indefinitely? Wait for vaccine approval for under 12s? Close eyes and hope it goes away?
I agree that 14 day isolating is very disruptive. I don't agree with foing nothing and allowing spread with no attempts to contain it. Maybe close contacts could isolate until first test then return once they haven't had symptoms or maybe have a daily antigen test every day for the 14 day close contact duration? If negative come to school, if not, stay home?
The fact is flu is more dangerous to young children than Covid. It also puts children in hospital, as does the winter vomiting bug. But we didn’t make them miss school for 14 days because of it. Children are more likely to be struck by lightning than die of a Covid. Flu is much more of a ‘threat’ to them.
The current system will not work, too many disruptions in its current form. People will stop going for tests. Anyone with symptoms should stay home, the rest should be allowed to continue their education.
Vaccinated children won’t change anything, they won’t get any benefit. Just plenty of risks. It won’t stop spread, variants , or Covid from circulating. This is the fact of the matter.
Even if it is 14 day period, the fact is this Delta variant is putting some children in hospitial + ICU so it shouldn't be dismissed as ' ah it's grand just gives kids a few sniffles'
We must follow protocol that we always have around close contacts. School aren't even back two weeks yet, the numbers are going to keep growing.
Surely you understand that close contacts self isolate to try prevent spread? There are vulnerable children ( as well as teachers/family members too), or should they be excluded from education so as not to inconvenience the others?
The risk to primary school kids from COVID is so small that we don't even bother vaccinating them with a safe, cheap available and effective vaccine.
And yet we exclude them from education because... abundance of caution?
It makes no sense.
4 children in hospital who are currently positive for covid, possibly in for something else,caught covid in hospital, possibly high risk, possibly in there solely due to covid, there should be clear information.
So close contacts just continue as normal without being tested? Personally I can't see the logic to that. Or do you mean test them within a day or two of being a close contact and let them back then?
The easy fix is to require only positive cases to isolate.
The young have sacrificed enough already. Let them have their education.
Thats in the last 14 days not currently. HPSC regularly release the numbers
I think that's how many admissions there have been over the past 14 days, as per the 14 day hpsc report. 4 kids currently in hospital as per the 8pm HSE report, none in ICU.
There are kids being hospitalised and being admitted to ICU, they are not immune as some people believe. You have some people saying they shouldn't be testing in school, some saying they should, some saying kids shouldn't have to isolate unless symptomatic, other saying they should. Definitely seems to be 2 sides to it and I don't think it's an easy fix. Hopefully as before it's just the back to school bump in testing causing it and the decline of community cases will start to have an impact on schools.
It's in the Irish Indepent today, don't know how to share article but hopefully some one else will.
Where does the 33 kids in hospital with covid and 4 in ICU figures come from?
It's an absolute disgrace the way Covid is been downplayed for children. They are not vaccinated and everything should be being done to keep them safe which includes quick contract tracing.
Yes thankfully most children get over it OK but there are still 33 children currently in hospital with Covid and 4 of them in ICU.
I want children to remain in school + creche as best place for them but I expect that any positive cases are treated seriously + proper contract tracing and close contacts followed up.
In no other setting with unvaccinated people would HSE be so lacksadaisy.
It's a disgrace.
Quick update on our experience: spoke with another parent from the same pod, HSE made contact yesterday advising on what to do etc, answered questions and are arranging test, they’re that far behind, still waiting on our contact but at least they are doing something.
Don't bother, people don't care anymore, wouldn't surprise me if they wanted positive cases to return to school
I'm sorry but what the actual ****... as if principals don't have it hard enough at the moment, now they're beinh reprimanded for looking out for their students. Let alone the fact that these "visits" Dr Collins claims take place are actually phone calls. This bullshit needs calling out.
Does anyone have a child who has tested positive recently? What were the symptoms? If it's just a runny nose should all runny nose kids have to be tested? Are there any other more identifying symptoms to pin point it might be Covid/Delta?
I'm not looking for hand holding, thanks, just some guidance that's all, we had several questions that aren't answered on the website, the school clearly advised that the HSE would be in contact and that they would be the ones to offer guidance, so we waited for that to happen, it didn't, they haven't made any communication about any test, we arranged the first ourselves immediately for our own reasons, we're planning on arranging the second ourselves but if they text in the meantime that'd be great, but it's lousy communication on their part imo, if this is anywhere near as serious as they make out then I certainly would expect a personal contact; text or whatever with a number to call or directions to the relevant webpage etc.
All of this is available online. HSE has made it clear its only the close contact stays at home. I been there twice with my kids, you will get a text for the second test.
Can't expect HSE to contact everyone these days, they need to focus on getting the hospitals working.
Can't expect a hand holding process all the time, use their website and free up the resources to deal with other things
Its also something schools can handle when saying your a close contact.
This is the worry for us at the moment, with a new born in the house we were a little relieved the first round came back clear but still anxious about the second batch.
It might have been nice if they had even told us that tbh, and no, a close contact doesn't just 'isolate', they just restrict their movements (read that however you want), they must be tested and then get a second test after 10 days, if clear then return, we also hoped for advice re his brother in a different school, was it ok for him to go etc? - Yes, thanks to the school for providing HSE advice the HSE didn't, again, they said that was the HSE's role to advise, not theirs.
No problem following advice, if it's given, you shouldn't have to google stuff like that or really ask outside of the HSE, there's also the 'ignorance is bliss' brigade, no advice, grand, carry on, no wonder the schools are a mess.
