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Tenant overholding

Comment_below

Hi all,

I've given one of my tenants in a house q notice of termination due to expire end of this month.

They are a single tenant in a 2 bed property and are on HAP.

I'm curious what are the next steps involved if the tenant overholds or stays beyond the notice of termination? They've been given over 7 months formal notice.

Will their overholding affect their HAP with the Council for the next property they move to ?

Some have said it'd be easier and cheaper to change the locks, inform tenant of alternative airbnb accommodation for a week (they have family in the area anyway) Take a video of everything in the house so the tenant can't say anything is missing or damaged and offer date for collection of items.

I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions

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Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851467#Comment_117851467

They only go back to 2014. I was trying to find a 2012 case a few minutes ago and it is not available.

redarmyblues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857337#Comment_117857337

How do you remove your name from the RTB database?

Red Silurian

So obviously the tenant is 100% in the wrong messing they're unlikely to take their case to the RTB

Why do you want them out exactly? Are they messy? Not paying rent? Damaging the premises? Keeping your neighbors up all night? Are you selling the place?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861350#Comment_117861350

Course they will go to the RTB.

Taking the case drags it out another 3~6 months. They won't actually turn up. The LL will do all the paperwork, dot the i's cross the T's.

Interesting to note that its the Landlords who fund the RTB. Not the tenants.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861350#Comment_117861350

the reasons for issuing termination is irrelevant as long as it is done within the onerous confines of the law.

The tenant has nothing to lose by referring to the RTB and dragging it out as regardless of the outcome they won't have any repercussions of not abiding by a determination order.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862185#Comment_117862185

The reason is always relevant in the context of why a landlord would want a tenant out, especially since this particular landlord isn't saying

One repercussion I can think of, for the tenant, is that he's unlikely to get a reference from his landlord for a futureif he's overholding... You'd be surprised how significant that can be in this day and age!

There's also a possibility that the tenant doesn't have a place to go yet so what's he/she to do realistically?

nothing

My neighbours had an eviction notice, on antisocial behaviour grounds, and should have left 4 months ago. The agency guy asked them last month when they were leaving. They said they weren't. It's baffling.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862263#Comment_117862263

Do search on daft or similar and find a place that they can afford. Showing 1,935 Properties to Rent at the moment.

If they can't afford it, (and there no reason to believe they can't)

Comment_below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862263#Comment_117862263

My reason is a genuine and relevant cause and an affidavit of same has been signed and included in the notice of termination.

The tenants homeplace is 8km away where he can stay if the 7 months notice didn't give him enough notice to find a place. He's a single tenant on hap in a 2 bed property, he's been told to look for house shares as renting an entire property as a hap applicant might be difficult to find.

Oh yeah, I won't be surprised if he takes an rtb case on the last day to drag things out. Well I've done my homework and based on his responses any adjudicator won't look on him favourably in an unlawful eviction. It's a complete joke of a system both HAP and RTB.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117860374#Comment_117860374

You contact the RTB and ask them to remove it.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862263#Comment_117862263

If the OP is following the correct legal framework in terminating a tenancy it isn’t relevant. The problem is with the enforcement mechanism in Ireland where everything is stacked in the tenant’s favour.

My advice to the OP is to work with your solicitor in following the process and be prepared for months of disappointment.

Back when I was trying to deal with my tenant I had engaged my solicitor and was preparing for the long expensive drawn out process but due to luck was I spared the additional months and months of pain.

I also considered all the other ‘advise’ and methods from friends and relatives - but ultimately my solicitor told me to ignore them as I would only end up forking out money and getting myself in to more trouble

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862397#Comment_117862397

Again, strange that you don't say the reason

There's 2 ways of going about it that I can see

1 - change the locks and expect to defend yourself against the RTB, there's no obligation to pay for a week in an Airbnb or similar and the tenants deposit can be held against any damages or cleaning etc etc

2 - make a complaint to the RTB if your reason is indeed genuine they will eventually evict the tenant and until the date he goes you are eligible for rent

Either way gives you the same result if your reasoning is indeed genuine. The question is do you want the RTB on your side or the tenants side and can you wait another few months for him to move out, while paying you rent of course?

[Deleted User]

I'm currently a tenant, working full time, paying my own rent.

I was given notice in May and as yet have not found a single property to move to. In fact, most places I enquire about, I don't even receive replies.

I have no intention of overholding. I will be out when I am due to be. I haven't heard one word from my landlord since I was given notice, because there is no need. I'm still paying my rent, and I'm sure they expect I will quit when supposed to.

Why don't you wait OP, until the tenant is supposed to leave, before you start worrying? Or making up scenarios in your head?

Maybe, like me, he is just finding it difficult to find anywhere else.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862693#Comment_117862693

The RTB aren't all that good for tenants either

We challenged a rental increase once as we felt the landlord hadn't properly shown examples of where rent is similar in their notice (pre-RPZ rules) and the RTB found in favour of our landlord, not only that but we were also ordered to backpay the increase

Cuddlesworth

https://www.rtb.ie/documents/TR0817-002545/TR0817-002545-DR0717-35511%20Determination%20Order.pdf

7k, like others have said the RTB site and search tool is beyond useless. You cannot trust what it returns. It really depends on the circumstances, but it might not be cost prohibitive to evict without a RTB order.

Also, technically the tenant has the right to break right back into the property and there is nothing you can do about that. Its worth thinking about how that situation would just escalate when your the one with assets and money and they are not.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862883#Comment_117862883

Also, technically the tenant has the right to break right back into the property and there is nothing you can do about that. Its worth thinking about how that situation would just escalate when your the one with assets and money and they are not.

Good point worth noting

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862776#Comment_117862776

I’d accept that - however - you can be sure that the enforcement of a determination order from the RTB is much easier as a tenant than a landlord.

It’s a flawed system that does not serve the purpose that it should.

Comment_below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863122#Comment_117863122

This is why I take comments from Boards.ie with a pinch of salt.

It is a criminal offence for a tenant to break into any property including a property that the landlord changed the locks. This is according to a criminal defence solicitor and a Garda!

What a ridiculous comment !

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862153#Comment_117862153

Would you genuinely propose tenants co-fund the RTB? Genuinely now, at a time of record high rents is that something that you think would be desirable?

Leaving aside whether that's a good or fair idea, in practical terms we all know that the same tenants that cause hassle and take up the RTBs time would be the ones who would refuse to pay and get away with it.

Similarly, generally the worst landlords are the ones who don't register with the RTB.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858643#Comment_117858643

Do they not still use the city west hotel for people with nowhere to self isolate

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863520#Comment_117863520

How do you think the LLs pay it except with the rent. All these taxes and fees are just added to rent. Those high rents....!

The system being heavily biased is kind of a disincentive to those it biased against though.

For example a tenant can use it even if they aren't registered. Not so a LL. Double standards.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863463#Comment_117863463

You might be asked to put them back in the property if they've been evicted illegally though.

Good luck getting the Garda to do anything in a tenancy dispute.

Comment_below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864413#Comment_117864413

Being asked to let them in and "technically the tenant has the right to break back in" are completely different scenarios!

Whoever suggested a tenant "technically has the right to break back in " , I would seriously worry about their interpretation of the law.

That's boards.ie for you though !

Flinty997

It might end up being the same thing in the end though.

All you really want to spend the least amount of money to achieve your end goal.

Comment_below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864558#Comment_117864558

I don't think it's the same thing, in fact it's complete opposites!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863463#Comment_117863463

"Your honour, I came home and my key wasn't working and I needed to get into the house because I had left the oven on. I was not made aware that the landlord had changed the locks and I only thought that my key wasn't working. I also needed to get my special medication that I have to take every 4 hours or I die so it was an emergency".

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856714#Comment_117856714

That's unlucky. But as with anything in life, there is a risk-reward payoff. You don't make a risk-free rate of return on property. Because it's not risk free. A landlord with a small number of properties cannot diversify the risk of tenants overholding precisely due to being a small landlord. But there should not be additional compensation (in the form of greater return) for that idiosyncratic risk. The result is just that some landlords get stung with all the pain and some luckily get off without noticing it at all.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864704#Comment_117864704

You are assuming the Judge is an idiot then?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864798#Comment_117864798

Ah, you haven't heard about the Irish legal system I take it 😉

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864741#Comment_117864741

There in lies the problem - a small landlord pays full PAYE rates of taxation on all rental derived income yet is afforded none of the protections that corporations can.

I keep hearing that landlords need to treat it as a business - but how can you when you are being charged full rates of tax.

There needs to be a full overhaul of how as a society we want to accommodate people. What we have now is a mish mash of different ideals with none of them working.