I see RTE news has discovered C12
Ah someone who has had both. They are not both the exact same symptoms
It's an interesting area to speculate about but it might work the other way round. I've read informed speculation the vaccination provides broader protection (against multiple variants) than infection, precisely because the vaccine is less specific. We just don't know. What we do know is that the vaccine is much, much safer than infection.
Original antigenic sin may be an issue with that - OAS means that your first immune response to a pathogen is the same one you make the 2nd and 3rd and 4th+ times exposed to it. So if you are "trained" on a vaccine with a subunit protein (spike) you may be limited to that response next time you come into contact with the virus.
So a latter infection might not produce a "better" immunity than your original vaccination. It's not clear if this effect occurs with SARS-COV-2 but its a possibility.
I'm not a scientist
But I'm pretty sure the virus doesn't have the ability to think or plan or be evil
It just similar to bacteria becoming immune to antibiotics in that it adapts to grow better
Its not planning to kill people or make them sick who are not able for it
That's just a net effect
Unless the "better" results from infection are just survivor bias.
If prior infection is better, then the best approach would be to be vaccinated first so that acquiring immunity through infection afterwards carries less risk of a bad time.
Immunity != immune. Thats probably the confusion.
When they talk about immunity, they just mean protection through your immune system - which has been trained either from previous infection, or through a vaccine. What we are seeing now, is that prior infection from any variant, gives better protection than the vaccines - not by a massive amount, but significant enough. In absolute terms, they both give great protection, which is the main point. Natural immunity is just as good as vaccine immunity
Maybe I'm taking too literal a definition (I don't know the actual medical definition of immune is) but surely varying levels of protection doesn't equal immunity. I mean, if you still get the virus, then surely you weren't immune.
But my point is, the vaccine has either made you immune or not. If not you still get the virus, but it has given you a level of protection. You will still get natural immunity, but with a much lower risk of needing medical assistance which is only a good thing (for the individual themself and everyone else through less pressure on the health service). Either way, the vaccine is only a positive regardless of any of this "better immunity" stuff.
Of course there is - otherwise why would there be any distinction between vaccines? They all perform differently and offer varying levels of protection. Same is true for an actual infection. It doesnt mean we should force everyone to get the "best" type of immunity, but we should just acknowledge that exposure grants immunity that is just as valid as vaccine immunity
Regarding emerging variants: new SARS-COV-2 mutations show up all the time, this is perfectly normal for virus evolution. Some have an 'advantage' over others, and become dominant. Like Delta replacing Alpha in Ireland, which replaced earlier variants. Delta is more infectious than Alpha, which is more infectious than earlier variants.
There have been hundreds of variants of SARS-COV-2.
Overview with timeline and which variants are relevant in which region:
The goal of the virus is to replicate as much as possible. Being more lethal is not an evolutionary advantage. That does not mean that a new variant can't be more lethal, that is a possibility, but not an advantage: when a virus kills all hosts, it can't spread further.
AFAIK, the technical development of the first Covid vaccines was completed as early as March 2020, everything that came afterwards was testing for efficacy and safety, and the approval process. So vaccines were technically designed for pre-Alpha variants. Modifying a vaccine for a new variant is comparatively trivial, not difficult, not a lengthy process.
Is there really "better" immunity? I mean, you are either immune or you are not. If you are vaccinated but you later contract the virus, your body is still better equipped to deal with the virus and reduce its impact. People will get immunity either "naturally" or through vaccination, either way being vaccinated is a good thing.
It's worse than that. Had a read through some of the replies to that thread. Came across at least two that contemplated suicide. It's at the point he's actually causing harm.
See
SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
The only one deliberately trying to mislead is you, by omitting the first part of the conclusions in the study. Natural immunity IS better against delta variant than that induced by Pfizer vaccine.
And no its not all people infected with delta variant previously - they address this in the study by expanding the dataset to 2020 when delta was not prevalent in Israel, and against that immunity the vaccinated still came out worse, but less so.
Trust Eric Ding to get all excited over that. Were it not for his Harvard background, the man would not be out of place working for The Sun or The Star with his dramatic, bombastic statements (wow, danger alert, etc.) laden with hyperbole and conjecture (if, could, potential, maybe).
Personally, I haven't heard anything about this, a quick google search returned the usual click-bait stuff, but until the mainstream media or proper scientists start talking about it, I won't be worried.
Honestly linking to that guy's Twitter should be banned. It's non-stop hysterical nonsense and borderline misinformation. He's a disgrace.
That thread is pure horseshit even by his standards.
There have 101 cases of C.1.2 to date with almost all of them from South Africa. The earliest known samples are from last May so his claim it was just identified is nonsense. It's early frequency may have been a founder effect and it is has shown no signs of significant growth since then. Obviously never say never but it may well be on the way to extinction.
What's the story with the new variant c12
Spreading twice as fast as Delta
Originated in South Africa and now found in concert goers in Cornwall
Also several times removed,the most varied so far from the original virus so potentially a problem for the vaccinated
Long thread 👇
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1432200392776028162?s=20
The study looks at how many people got sick twice with Covid since January 2021 compared to getting vaccinated and getting sick once afterwards. There are extremely few who got vaccinated who got sick within 7 months, and even fewer who got sick a second time, after getting sick first in Jan/Feb 2021, before being vaccinated.
Entirely unsurprising.
The 'misleading' part is to make some insane antivax narrative - 'vaccines are not really effective' - out of a study that has entirely unsurprising results. The study never questions vaccine effectiveness.
Sure. Please direct your anger to the professors and researchers behind that study. It is they who try to mislead not me. Care to explain what is misleading on their find that the vaccinated were ultimately 13x as likely to be infected as those who were infected previously, and 27x more likely to be symptomatic. Plus what I forgot to mention that vaccinated people were also at greater risk for covid related hospitalization compared to those who were previously infected?
It is all stated right in conclusions part of the study.
Don't fall for his BS, he's deliberately trying to mislead.
What he's referring to: breakthrough infections for vaccinated are extremely rare. They are even more rare for people who were infected with Covid naturally - but this only applies to natural infection with the Delta variant.
The study he's referring to states "Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant" - which is consistent with the current guidance that even people who had Covid should get vaccinated.
That's a month old, I'm sure you have an update on it now? Has it spread more than delta? Is it dominant in a country now? Or are you just link dumping?
Reference please
Forget about Delta.
Lambda is the real deal...😎
SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance | bioRxiv
Thing is that we did not locked up anyone and could not do so even if we wanted. Even at our first lockdown about third of workforce went about their routine as if nothing was going on. "Essential workers" needed to maintain illusion of some lockdown. They then came back home and exposed their families.
I do not know why some people think like end of the world is coming. Covid is out for nearly 2 years and with so many daily cases out of which absolute majority is non symptomatic there is good chance most of the people already had it and built up natural immunity which is by the way far superior to any current vaccine.
Latest Israel study showed that the vaccinated were ultimately 13x as likely to be infected as those who were infected previously, and 27x more likely to be symptomatic.
Grim in Russia. 820 deaths in the last 24 hours.
Go hard on locking out anyone connected to India at the time it was being Ravaged
Not a difficult thing to do for 2 or 3 months untill a majority were vaccinated
Notice what I'm doing here?
Stating my opinion without ad hominem or non sequitur's
Go hard on what source? Many countries tried that and failed miserably. You seems to watch too many movies where hundreds of doctors and people in full hazmat descend on town where one or few people got sick.
Come on now. This kind of armchair-general-after-battle-talk is like, unreal. We go this way then I cannot wait for triple-vaxxers to be PISSED at the double-vaxxers lol
...
And that's a reason not to go down hard on its source once it was known?
I certainly don't think so and to be honest have no faith in any governments acting on experience if another worse variant turns up
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