UK is at peak deaths of delta wave (cases well down from their peak). Delta hit UK hard in May. Israel early into Delta wave. Come back to me in a month.
Israel taking it more seriously?
UK have much higher vaccination that Israel.
UK will booster after their trial results later this month.
Israel in crisis mode and talking about locking down.
Meanwhile in Glasgow nightclubs are open.
And it will never end because people won’t let it end. Varadkar was standing on steps in March 2020 giving a speech like the Black Death was a coming. Well, that didn’t happen. Then the possibility of Vaccines not happening anytime soon hung over us like a dark cloud. Well, we have them… but Variants. Yes, definitely a problem but a problem we can easily live with now because the Vaccines hold up so well despite the noise. Respected the fook out of this virus and done my best to do the right thing but I don’t take it seriously at this stage. Hysteria and bad news sells. All you really have to do is monitor the post history of every single negative Nancy on here to realise the type of mindset we’re dealing with. Bringing my 82 year old Dad on a foreign holiday soon and we can’t wait. No fear, no worries just excitement.
Have we reasonable control now? YES
Will we have better control in 6 months? YES
Will there come a time in the not too distant future when practically every hspitalised case of covid is preventable with vaccines/early home intervention/treatment? YES
I'm not saying dont bring your Dad on holiday, but I remember the backlash over Tom Moore.
At the end of the day its the individual choices at this stage in pandemic. Restrictions will continue to fall away.
Is it like 2019 with your Dad going abroad? NO
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/captain-tom-moore-covid-barbados-b1796365.html
Firstly, I’m sorry if my post came across like I was asking for advice on bringing my Vaccinated Father on a foreign holiday because it wasn’t.
Secondly, I’m sure Captain Sir Tom Moore wasn’t Vaccinated.
and finally, everything else you said kind of proves my point that the Vaccines are great, whether that is now or in 6 months.
Plenty of fully vaccinated over 65's get hospitalised with covid in ireland at present.
I could'nt care less what you and your Dad get up to.
You can both do a bungy jump off off Niagra Falls for all I care.
You crazy cats.
See, I love Science so “plenty” doesn’t quite could it for me so please leave authentic data on hospitalisations and Deaths in the over 65’s who are fully vaccinated please.
Bungie jumps sound cool. You’d probably best avoid though… could catch a headache.
1 in 5 admissions in ireland currently are fully vaccinated. Nearly all vaccinated hospital admissions have been in over 65 and all deaths to date in fully vaccinated are over 65s.
Basically on average a vaccine brings your covid risk down 20-30 years.
Your dad if vaxed now has the risk of a man in his 50s unvaccinated for another few months when he will need a booster based on waning immunity per israel data.
Covid risk for under 60s vaccinated is tiny even with health issues.
Still significant for over 60's unfortunately.
Vaccines blunt Delta but do not defeat Delta. A grim message.
More mitigation and boosters part of the solution.
There doesn't seem to be a lot so far. Here's a Nature piece on it suggesting it's a weak argument. Rapidly vaccinating the rest of the world strikes me as a far better strategy.
Didn't Israel hit about 60% vaccinated as well and then basically just stopped vaccinating ? I seem to recall a wall being hit there and talk of shots going out of date etc
Agree, your better off spreading vaccines far and wide and giving some protection to more people.
Except we're ahead of where Israel are with vaccination.
We've got to 71% of the population with at least a dose, whereas they've got 68% up to August 15th.
On June 1st that was at 63% Israel and 43% Ireland.
April 1st in Israel 62% , so little movement in 2 months.
They quite clearly stalled in the 60's
See for yourself
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
They are no longer the posterchild for vaccinations and they've really only added about 10% since March, something we've done in a few weeks.
That’s a very harsh way to describe the situation, but your completely correct with that 50 year old example, not want people want to hear but it’s the truth.
Vaccines have just blunted the diseases severity for the vulnerable, but it’s still dangerous, but life is dangerous and no one should hide from it anymore
Glad to hear that 82 year old man is going out on holidays, get busy living or get busy dieing.
On the the risk point you bring up
Is 45 hospitalisations for every 1000 cases pre-vaccine vs 20 hospitalisations for every 1000 cases now post-vaccines, good enough progress?
I think that reduction is not good enough for our hospital capacity but with a better hospital infrastructure it’s good enough.
This scientist basically says the opposite: Chise 🧬🧫🦠💉 on Twitter: "Yes, the vaccines ARE effective against the Delta variant. Yes, you will need both doses for maximum protection. Yes, they’re effective against preventing symptomatic infection, severe disease, AND hospitalization. Several studies have proven this now. Stop the misinformation." / Twitter
Looks like the USA are starting boosting most people in a couple of weeks
Pfizer will be doing a special offer next. Buy 2 get 1 free
I don't like this presentation of data. We have added 10% in weeks because we had a larger pool of unvaccinated. Our programme has now slowed, as all do when running out of willing eligible participants.
Importantly, they have 27% of the pop under 15, we have only 13%.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
Have you compared the take up in different age groups? I haven't but it would be interesting.
But it seems some are conveniently ignoring the fact that their vaccination programme has largely stalled at ~60% fully vaccinated, in an effort to push a narrative that the vaccines are not working. Why this narrative is even being propagated is a mystery to me. All the data shows us that the vaccines are incredibly effective in preventing illness and death. Lest we forget, isn't that what we wanted this time last year?
"blunted the disease severity" is an odd way to describe a ~90% reduction in risk of hospitalisation and/or death.
Where are you getting the 90%?
In Nov 20, 4.5% of cases went to hospital with no vaccines
Aug 21 2% of cases go to hospital
Even if that gets to 1% when everyone is vaccinated
That ain’t 90% reduction vs no vaccines
The point is they raced ahead but have been stalled since pretty much March due to hesitancy or resistance. Our demand has never flagged and we are now at 82% of adults.
I know that's your point but I think you're wrong. They have a much larger youth population which makes it difficult or impossible for them to achieve high percentages of vaccination on a total population level.
That's why I'm asking whether you've compared uptake by age.
It's not all about the youth. They have problems in certain groups like Arab-Israelis and Orthodox Jews, where up to 30% may not have signed up. Here's a graphic.
You are forgetting that vaccination also reduces the number of cases in the first place
According to this, they have around 80% of adults fully vaccinated.
https://www.ft.com/content/9e06cb33-38a1-4efe-859e-95008c85a623
What are we at, 75%?
We may eventually get higher due to ethnic/political issues they have, but we shouldn't be comparing total population figures without acknowledging the significant demographic differences.
Our rollout is relatively crawling at this point, but I would equally not describe it as "stalled". We're just near the limits of willing, eligible recipients.
We are 82% now with 90-91% adults with at least one dose, which may well be near the final total. I think that comes to just over 70% of the population vaccinated so a final total of 80%+ is a reasonable expectation, although the 12-15s will boost it. 100K registered there and 47K jabs administered.
Interesting
How do they calculate 90% effectiveness against hospitalisation
If 5 people out of 100 went to hospital with Covid pre vaccines
90% reduction should now be 2 cases out of 100 go to hospital
Is that how they calculate it?
Thanks, what's the source for your stats? I'm not even clear about whether reports of "adults" for both countries are 16+ or 18+.
That would be a Paul Reid tweet!
Yes but I want to compare like for like once infected
Case vs case
That 90% reduction they calculated eg 5 vs 2 out 100 is like the difference in risk between a 70 year old and 50 year old being hospitalised, it’s a lot smaller but not rare.
A 90% reduction is basically turning a 70 year old vaccinated person into a 50 year old unvaccinated
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