Israel cracking on with the boosters.
Outbreaks also starting in care homes in Israel over the weekend now.
The unvaccinated have 10-20x the risk of serious adverse outcome though
We need to assume this is our future and get cracking with the boosters. A lot of the vulnerable were vaccinated 6 months ago so we need to get these vaccinated again as soon as possible. This should be a priority over the 12 to 18 year olds.
Icelands chief epidemiologist has said the way to herd immunity is through infections, not vaccinations. Seems a bit of a turnaround considering he was talking 15 years of restrictions just a couple of weeks ago.
"The epidemiologist believes that it is now necessary to try to achieve herd immunity to the corona virus by letting it continue, but to try to prevent serious illness by protecting vulnerable groups. He says the goal at this point cannot be to eradicate the virus from society."
Sounds a lot like Swedens approach, over a year later. I think we might see more countries come to accept that this is the way, or we will be stuck in this cycle of restrictions and boosters for years, which is obviously untenable.
Can you imagine how sceptical people will be to having another dose now. Not anti vax in any way at all, but i am certainly going to wait to see how it has gone elsewhere for a good while before having another fu##er.
Mind you,if you were the CEO of Pfizer or any of the Pharmacutical majors now fully engaged with the Covid response,this would be VERY tenable indeed ?
That could be too late for the vulnerable. All going well it may turn out that a booster is not necessary but the alternative could be so bad that it is logical to just do it. This is the first covid winter with vaccines so there is a large gap in the data. Cautious is the way to go.
I suspect we'll need a booster that specifically deals with Delta. I know Pfizer and Moderna are working on such a thing. Unless we have a vaccine that reduces transmission, it just won't be enough. Yes it will protect against severe illness, but what about those who don't get severely ill and go on to have long-term symptoms?
@ceadaoin wrote:
"Seems a bit of a turnaround considering he was talking 15 years of restrictions just a couple of weeks ago."
His mistake was probably saying out loud that there might need to be 15 years of restrictions. Our lot here are more careful.
Long term symptoms is severe illness
Oh yeah, cautious is the way to go. We don't have a clue what the risks are, or if they work or not, never mind how long they last. But sure just roll up your sleeve and get your booster shot. FFS
It's not. It's not considered as severe illness. Severe illness is considered being hospitalised, or breathing difficulties. You can have mild illness and develop long-term symptoms. I haven't seen any indications that vaccination protects against long-covid with delta variant.
Well you don’t have to take it.
Have you seen any indications that it doesn’t? And also, a mild cough and a bit of tiredness 30 days after a virus may be classed by many as long covid, but it’s pretty common with viral infections, any viral infections. Trouble is the understanding of “long covid” among the general population equates to relatively large number who experience some temporary post viral symptoms with the very small number who experience ongoing symptoms that limit ability to live normally
Exactly, you will just wheel your granny out and keep your fingers crossed.
Didn't Israel recently report many cases of long covid in health care workers who had been fully vaccinated and contracted covid?
We absolutely need to accelerate boosters. We can learn from the waning wave in Israel. After the Delta wave finishes, we risk a waning wave. Let's preempt this by starting boosters asap. I don't think this is a case of prioritising boosters over 12-15 year olds. Both should occur in tandem and the Romanian doses should help facilitate that.
“a few couldn’t come back to work after six weeks”
Moves bloody fast the Delta like
Probably took the eye off the ball a fair bit but at least Israel seem to be getting the right idea.
I don't think they took their eye off the ball, they just stalled at 60% vaccination
The choice isn't herd immunity is through infections or a cycle of restrictions and boosters for years. The plan now has to be to get vaccines into as many people as possible, plus possible boosters for those deemed in need.
If vaccines don't stop the spread sufficiently, then herd immunity is through infections moves more to the fore but this will be helped by the vast majority of people having been vaccinated thereby reducing the number of deaths and hospitalisations. For many, infection might act as their booster, for those most vulnerable to the virus, a booster shot will hopefully mean they don't get infected. In any case, a cycle of restrictions and boosters for years is extremely unlikely.
No, vaccines stop symptomatic Covid for circa 90% not just severe Covid.
If you have Covid and a sore throat, then you are in the 10%.
Bit dramatic.
The effectiveness with Delta is still exceptionally high for a vaccine and higher than they hoped a vaccine could be.
Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant (nih.gov)
Effectiveness after one dose of vaccine (BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1 nCoV-19) was notably lower among persons with the delta variant (30.7%; 95% confidence interval [CI], 25.2 to 35.7) than among those with the alpha variant (48.7%; 95% CI, 45.5 to 51.7); the results were similar for both vaccines. With the BNT162b2 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) among persons with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) among those with the delta variant. With the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 74.5% (95% CI, 68.4 to 79.4) among persons with the alpha variant and 67.0% (95% CI, 61.3 to 71.8) among those with the delta variant.
BNT162b2 = Pfizer
ChAdOx1 = AZ
Effectiveness = prevention of symptomatic disease
So it's 6-7% reduction of fully vaccinated vs Alpha variant in this particular study. What is partiular is the reduction of the one dose effectivenss vs Alpha variant which is 18% (49% to 31%).
Icelands chief epidemiologist has said the way to herd immunity is through infections, not vaccinations.
I am so sick of this antiqvax crap, and the attitude and deliberate, malicious spreading of lies.
"Not vaccinations" is something that you, @ceadaoin. added, and it is a lie. If you read the actual article, the epidemiologist is not only in favour of vaccinations, but booster shots on top of that.
You are deliberately spreading misinformation against better knowledge.
..just to add, this is another example of deliberate misinformation.
The article you linked to states:
..the implications are that vaccines will have the same durable effect”, says Menno van Zelm, an immunologist at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia.
which is the exact opposite of the nonsense you're trying to spread.
It is not possible to compare UK & Israels data.Firstly UK had a 12 weeks gap between doses for Pfizer and Israel started earlier.
So the data from the UK for Pfizer will be taken 28 days after the second dose. Which for the first to get vaccinated will be in April.That is why PHE cannot give an up to date efficacy figure for both vaccines at the moment, it will be another couple of months What the Israel data showed was the effectiveness 6 months after the second dose and the reduction in transmission occurred in the last 2 months mainly.
The Israel data is now published and the findings were presented a couple of days earlier by the Israel Health Ministry.
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/vaccine-efficacy-safety-follow-up-committee/he/files_publications_corona_two-dose-vaccination-data.pdf
I had a look at that too just to confirm and it's clear that the doctor is in favour of continuing vaccinations, including boosters. I don't understand why somebody would lie like that.
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