Is buying a diesel car now silly?

A second hand diesel will do fine, for years to come.

is there such a thing as a hybrid diesel?

Mercedes have a 300de in the e class.I think Volvo had one few years ago too. They are rare beasts.

"Mild hybrid" is nothing more than marketing nonsense the same way Coke Zero or Diet Coke are claimed to be much better for you over regular Coke. Hybrid is a very trendy word these days and average joe associates it with being more earth friendly and clean. So car manufacturers decided to stick a second battery in their cars that run some of the car's electronics, etc which slightly helps with emissions. They then stick the word "mild hybrid" on to make buyers feel better about themselves and their contribution to saving the planet.

Would I consider buying a brand new diesel ? Yes , if my usage type and mileage made it the best fit over an electric and hybrid.

More likely I would look and see if I could get one a year or two old so alot of the depreciation is eaten on it.

The Merc E300 would be classed as a mild hybrid, and had a 20kW (27hp) motor with 250Nm torque, so quite a bit more than just electronics. It could only propel itself up to about 30km/h from a standstill, but it would drop into electric mode pretty much any time you were off the throttle at any speed. It really did make a difference to fuel economy around town particularly, and the driving experience was so so much better with electric rather than the feeling the clutch.

Fuel savings per year would be very very minimal however. Maybe 100-200 per year vs normal diesel for high mileage driver.

In my experience, hauling the (empty) battery is only a problem in town. On the open road, and extra 200kg makes no noticeable difference to fuel economy. Wind resistance accounts for the vast majority of fuel at higher speeds.

All that said, fuel savings vs a regular car (in the hundreds per year for me doing 80% motorway, 20% urban) will not even approach depreciation cost. Real reason for me buying a PHEV was the VRT saving tbh, and the fuel saving was a nice bonus. I certainly wouldn't be paying a premium for a PHEV on the basic of fuel saving, but I might do for urban driving experience.

Go for a TDI but why a SUV. Superb estate better economy than a SUV and a very large boot.

I've never heard the Merc E300 being referred to as a mild hybrid so my previous statement does not apply to it. My reference was to cars labelled as mild hybrids that only have an extra small battery to power some of the electronics. These cars are not hybrids in the correct sense of the word.

It really isn't a buyer's market! There's been several articles on RTÉ News app and in the papers about the lack of second-hand cars around lately, due to a combination of COVID, Brexit and the chip shortage... That's been borne out for me lately as I'm looking for a 2nd-hand car at the moment, there's not much choice out there at all.

Just seen the OP was wondering about buying a SUV. @lightspeed that would be silly! An SUV adds 25- to 30% to your fuel expenditure for no reason other than you're hauling around 35- to 30% more weight. And if you've only one kid on the way, you don't need the extra space (and it's not much more space, really, the boots are tiny!).

You do realise that the electricity your electric car is using has probably been generated using fossil fuels and therefore has created pollution for your little one to breath in? Also note that to use 1KW at charger probably required 1.3kw to be generated given powerline losses etc. Don't forget the opportunity cost of the time taken up with charging etc if not done at home

What about kids mining cobalt in Africa? Thats allright? Diesels arent the greatest solution but now its the most sensible thing we have to offer for long term usage in high mileage trips.

Give me an electric car which will do 1100km in one charge and I will gladly buy it to save "Earth".

Getting back on topic, when I switched to diesel, with 20-25k km done in year, saved around 500-1000€ per year. You would need to do the math for yourself. Both options have pros and cons.

How many litres of diesel were used to ship the natural gas / diesel / coal used to power the electricity plant that generated the electricity to power your electric car?

I'm not suggesting we burn the planet. Energy discussions should be based around engineering, science and mathematics which looks at the

actual energy usage of different modalities (ICE Cars vs electric etc...). Many electric car advocates use simplistic arguments that don't include

the cost of manufacturing the car and especially its batteries or that fact that electricity doesn't magically appear but has to be generated.

It may be that there is a case for small electric vehicles for use in Cities etc but there is little evidence and no current technology that can match ICE engines for a significant percentage of the read miles that are currently made.

I was just answering to the fact that a lot of people threat electric cars like "miracle" cure for all pollution problems. When You try to mention diesel they hiss at You like I was the one who killed Bambi. Im aware that both businesses aren't clean.

Why I would need 1000km? Because during my holidays I drive a lot, being able to cover such a distance without worrying about how much battery is left and where to find nearest charger is for my use just more convenient. Like for example I like the Chinese or Taiwanese concept of replacing the battery on the spot instead of charging it.

I dont see a problem driving long distance in manual, drove last week like few hundred km without touching the pedals, just used cruise control.

Dont take me wrong, I do believe that electric cars/hybrids are important step but I just don't see it viable in the way EU sees things.

Audi Q7 e tron too

Volvo are on the way out.

Me not Tarzan.Tarzan never loved petrol.

Just curious question as You like math, not an irony btw. If we take a scenario of Golf vs ID3, how long it would take for ID3, due to spending less per 100km, to make up the purchase difference?

Golf (1.0l petrol) @ 28000€ and ID3 @ 36000€. With average mpg of Golf at 50mpg/4.7l at this price difference we gain around 113000km, thats few nice years of driving, depending of mileage. How would that work for ID3?

Im curious how the "electric" revolution will work, as I cant imagine with current state of some countries in EU, for average Joe to switch to new cars in upcoming 20 years. Which btw is funny that EU try to push it so hard on people when most of co2 is generated now thanks to big brother in china.

Thanks, great work putting it together. I did just quick math with basic figures from VW website and honestjonh in terms of mpg. You did a lot better job than me.

So it would take up to 2 years, maybe 3 to offset the difference.

Ill stay with my trusty noisy diesel for now.

This. If you’re young and living in rented accommodation, trying to save for a house so driving an older car… this is just another thing you’re fucked with.

Thats where I we were ten years ago. Driving a pre 07 diesel, paying €800 tax while my elders/betters crooned about their clean new beemers and sub €200 tax. And that turned out to be completely bollocks in environmental terms.

Now it’s reading the Irish Times regale us with how €40k EVs are the ‘ideal’ new family car.

If they’re serious then new ICE’s should subsidise new EVs and let the post 2016 ICEs flush out of the system naturally, giving people on a tight budget a chance

As a recent enough convert to EV (swapping two diesels to a BEV and PHEV) in the last 12 months ... I can honestly say the fuel savings are not the most important thing to me ... sure it was a factor in the decision initially .. hence the PHEV .. which currently drives about 90% of its time on EV and the other 10% as a fast fun car ... however ... when it came to changing the second car the experience with the PHEV meant that the only consideration was a BEV.

It actually almost pains me to burn any sort of fuel ... as I know now there is no need to.

It is similar to when I put in a bank of solar tubes on the roof for hot water .... with a bit of plumbing magic we are now using a fraction of the oil we previously did to heat a 3000sqft house ... the pay off period for the solar and plumbing is probably about 7-8 years but that is only a secondary motivation to me .... it might be middle-age guilt or something but burning fuel when there is an alternative .. why?

I'm not having a go but just to highlight that you say why burn fuel when there is an alternative? Well why stop at fuel, why run 2 cars when you could adjust your life to run just one or none and then use alternative means of public transport? The answer is simply that it may not suit you or your way of life. In other words one size doesn't fit all.

True, one size doesn't fit all. I've had the argument with my city-centre dwelling friends that no, they don't need a car. It costs something like €6k a year to own/run a car, they could save that and use public transport, GoCar, taxis, and if they are renting a car for a trip, the money they've saved not running a car means they can easily afford a luxury car or something quirky like a convertible for the weekend/week. They know it makes logical sense and some have gone that route. Others go "Yeah, you're right... but I like knowing I can just jump into the car if I need to..."

Building regs will need to change to make it mandatory for any new development to put in charging points. And the energy providers will need to be forced to invest more in the charging infrastructure. It's a pity the greens in this government don't seem to be all that bothered with pushing their agenda...

And to answer the OP's question. I would say:

• if you find a second-hand diesel car at a price that suits you
• if diesel suits your intended pattern of driving
• if you are not concerned about the future value of the car

then go for it.

Was in much the same position myself last year, had an 04 TDI Golf with 300 k on the clock and was undecided if I would go for diesel again.

Bought a 19 diesel Golf UK import for 20 k with only 16000 miles on the clock.

There's bargains out there if you shop around.