I hope the Red Bull car and Max haven't lost any speed. I'd imagine because of the accident last time out that they're on the back foot this weekend. Should be fascinating.
Well, that was completely pointless.
Makes for a fascinating weekend, though!
Spicy stuff here, imagine the scenes if something else happens this weekend.
Hamilton will be unfazed by this you'd imagine, what will be interesting is to see is Verstappen reasonse to it as this will be his first set back in a championship challenge of his career.
The appeal has been rejected. The argument was; "Red Bull used the Leclerc pass to argue Hamilton would have made contact in that move too - if he had been on the same line at the same speed as he was in the Verstappen incident." Laughable
Appeal thrown out.
We move on.
https://twitter.com/JennieGow/status/1420810401567096834?s=19
Completely agree. It would also complicate the process of applying penalties during the race as the consequence of being penalised would be that the other party would be absolved and would be eligible for an engine change.
So what might the solutions be? Maybe both parties are penalised to reflect the 60:40 nature of the crash and neither is eligible for an engine change. Or maybe they would be more reluctant to impose penalties as they will probably be challenged in court for weeks following every event. And what happens when a championship contender crashes with a customer of their championship rival? So AM, Williams and Mercedes challenge any crash with a red bull, but don't challenge any crash with another Mercedes.
Just leave the rules as they are. Maybe some people would like the soap opera Court battles running in parallel to the racing for weeks on end, but I would just prefer the racing to be finished at the checkered flag
He must be some driver to be able to judge the outcome of an accident before it even happened, especially at the speeds they were going. Like someone else said, everyone else is playing checkers and Lewis must be playing 7d chess.
Christian Horner said in Spain "Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence.” This time Lewis didn't get out of it and this is the result. At some point in every driver's career they come up against someone who isn't going to just move over for them. Max has been on the other end of this for a long time. Max himself has said that he wasn't aggressively defending as he didn't squeeze him in the wall - Max's definition of too aggressive is putting someone in the wall along the straight.
As for compliant Bottas, imagine if he dropped points himself, just to take a solitary point of Max. Imagine how petty and compliant he would be.
But you can't just say if there's a 50/50 element that it's 'tough'. As highlighted already, there would be legal challenges and there would be weeks if not months spent on this and it's get tiresome and boring very quickly because teams would be looking to get extra engines.
It sounds like a great idea in theory but legally it would be a nightmare for operations. Teams and operators would spend weeks in legal paperwork for a spare engine. I understand people are pissed off but we wouldn't be having any of these discussions if what happened to Max happened to anybody else.
If anything, introducing a rule like this would hamstring the sport. It opens so many cans of worms that the only solutions are that either every driver that crashes gets a spare engine (fault or not fault) or none of them do. If you open up any kind of grey area it is a recipe for disaster, like we have seen many times in F1 as it is.
Cars that get taken out like that and receive damage should be allowed to replace engines etc if they weren't at fault in the crash that caused the damage. If the crash was their fault according to the stewards or it's 50:50 then that's tough. Amazing how this sport hamstrings itself so much with so many ridiculous rules.
Ah, I think you've been reading too many tabloids and their comment sections. Over the top reaction to a racing incident that was dealt with by applying an appropriate penalty during the race and unfortunately has big repercussions for the championship.
It's unfortunate but it wasn't all predictable before the event. Are you suggesting Hamilton intended to achieve the outcome that you outline above as "entirely predictable"?
It doesn't quite work that way - they're free to run a third engine at Hungary no problem and without penalty, but they can only run three engines in the entire season and there are a lot of races to go. Red Bull's best hope now is probably covid cancelling a bunch of late-season races.
Now that's telling the Apartheid-era South African GPs to hold your bee-I mean, rose water.
The thing is that all of your ANDs were entirely predictable. Going into the corner at the angle Lewis chose to was guaranteed to take Max out of the race and cause a big crash. Mercedes told Lewis to stay out because they knew an impact that size was guaranteed to cause a red flag and they'd get a free repair. With Max out of the race, Perez at the back of the grid, Bottas playing a compliant teammate, and no other team having anything like the performance of the Merc, Hamilton was pretty much guaranteed victory with a tiny ten second penalty. And with the size of the crash he caused, the headaches Red Bull now face for the rest of the season regarding budget cap and power unit allocation were also guaranteed.
The only thing that wasn't guaranteed was that Max Verstappen would come out alive and without life changing injuries, which is one thing we can be thankful for.
Needing to sacrifice practice time to check the engine, and then if it doesn't pass they'll be lining themselves up for a bigger penalty for an engine change than the penalty for taking them out was. Although worse case scenario is that they think it's ok and it fails in the race, costing them another 25 points (and still needing to be followed with a grid penalty later in the season for using too many power units)
The rewards for dirty driving never seem to end.
I assume the spirit of the rule is to keep teams within a certain budget so that larger teams can’t be constantly fixing/replacing parts on the engine?
Crashes shouldn’t be immediately included in that, I think-depending on the stewards findings on the incident, there should absolutely be leeway in repairs. You can’t say on one hand we want close, hard racing but on the other if you are involved in a crash in any circumstance you could destroy your season.
The stewards were correct in the penalty applied to Hamilton because it’s right they just look at the incident in isolation, but any decision made off track should be including the wider context of the championship.
Yeah but then what if its a 50:50 accident? or what if it's a 60:40 accident and the one who is 60% in the wrong crashes out and the other driver carries on? Your idea sounds good but it would lead to further consequences down the line in terms of legal wrangling over who was at fault, legal challenges to penalties and, naturally, teams would use any crash as an excuse to get a new engine.
Fact is that sometimes bad things happen, bad luck strikes and sometimes bad luck even doubles up. That's all that happened in this case as max was not the most guilty party AND he was taken out of the race AND his title rival got an appropriate, but relatively lenient, penalty AND went on to win the race AND the crash might impact his engine allocation which might cause a 10 place penalty later in the year for a new engine.
This event is just unlucky and it might rob us of a close title fight which is really disappointing, but ultimately it's just bad luck.
If an engine has to be parked due to an accident you didn't cause, an additional replacement should certainly be allowed to be run over the season without penalty.
They still have a spare engine they can use, don’t they?
Huge pressure though using their last one this early in the season.
It all goes back to the unfairness of the original incident - anyone would take a ten second penalty for taking their main rival out of the race and potentially hampering their season. Whatever about the DNF in Silverstone, it seems mad that there wouldn’t be exceptions for an incident that wrecked one of your engines that you weren’t determined to be most at fault for-from the sports perspective it could ruin the championship.
They have a pool of usable components and they're free to use those as they see fit. They will only take a penalty if they need to add a new component to the pool. That will come into play later in the season and won't impact them at Hungary
They must be doing the sums and gambling that a 10 place grid penalty for replacing the engine, at a track which is difficult to overtake like Hungary, would hand Hamilton an even bigger advantage. But an engine failure in the race would be a nightmare.
So they can run the engine and decide whether to replace it and take the penalty, or just gamble that it will last the weekend and replace it in Belgium.
Aren't they allowed a certain amount of leeway to replace broken parts?
It will be a miracle if it hasn't been somehow damaged after a 51G crash.
RB will use the engine from silverstone during FP1
https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull-to-run-verstappens-crashed-honda-engine-in-hungary/
I went to Spa a while back, camped just outside Les Combes. Amazing weekend. Mates walked the entire track on the Saturday, took them a while :D It's been long enough since I was there that I don't know if it'd be the same but back then there were lorry containers in the campsites used as stages with lasers and smoke machines, people set up massive marquees with space for 50 or 60 people, great craic altogether.
We just have the ticket for race day but the more I read up on the circuit the more I'm inclined to spend the extra €100 for a weekend pass. Is it feasible to walk around the track in the morning and then move p to the stand for the F1 at 2pm?
Well, the article linked shows the times that happened. Some penalties were overturned on appeal by the penalised party. Irvine had his penalty increased when he appealed it himself.
Never has someone appealed to have a penalty increased on a third party.
I've just booked tickets to Spa at the end of August. Admittedly Gen DTS and it'll be my first F1 experience. We have tickets for Gold 2 on Sunday so here's hoping we get a good view out of the hairpin and up over the hill.
Can anyone recommend a good town to stay in for the night? As we're so late booking, Maastricht looks like a good bet with shuttle buses available but open to recommendations.
Also, any tips for visiting the track would be appreciated!
And rightly so.... Hamilton's actions by knocking Albon of the track twice cost them a podium and an almost certain victory, and maybe even cost him his career in F1....
Has there ever even been retrospective action on anything regarding penalties in F1?
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