AngryLips wrote: » Well I imagine there would be many benefits to better connecting Dart to East Wall besides getting people into the city centre. Frankly, Clontarf Road is so disconnected from its surroundings as to be practically useless, and if Istanbul can build a transit station here then I don't understand why we can make Clontarf Road a bit more convenient to its surrounding neighbourhoods. The location of the station makes it feel unsavory and remote, sell the land for some apartments and use it to fund a better transit hub I say.
donvito99 wrote: » The station is there and you may as well let it operate just as any other station. There are lots of people continuing past Tara and Pearse to Grand Canal Dock and Lansdowne Road. Fairview, Marino and the bits of Clontarf in proximity to the station are as far from the city as Lansdown Road, so I don't know why you'd distinguish it?
densification wrote: » The Dart does not offer good penetration into the city centre (unlike Dublin Bus which does). People from Drumcondra don't really use the station, they get the bus as it goes to way more places at a much higher frequency.
bk wrote: » LOL, I knew someone would say that. You know perfectly well that the vast majority of trips are into the city center. Other trip generators wouldn't break single digits and you want to spend millions to move a station for that! It isn't like people in East Wall aren't willing to walk 10 minutes if they were heading to Howth, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't improve the accessibility of the existing station, but moving it doesn't make sense.
lucernarian wrote: » I don't know where you're coming from on this - the fact it requires a free shuttle bus to be viable as a station is more a damning indictment of it than it is of its "success".
lucernarian wrote: » It's far more than 10 minutes walk to get to Clontarf road from almost any part of East Wall unless you're extremely selective about it. And a station more accessible to east wall would also be within 15 minute's range of croke Park, almost as close as Drumcondra is already.
densification wrote: » Ye, that's a good point. It's not a very heavily used stop. Some more passive surveillance wouldn't hurt. I think it has Irish Rail security there full time now and Gardaí assisting ticket inspectors at weekends.
AngryLips wrote: » Is the shuttle bus just for staff working at East Point business park?
densification wrote: » Howth-Howth Junction probably should be a shuttle but that's gonna be very politically toxic when it happens. It'll improve punctuality and frequency of other Northern Line services, but rich people in Howth will lose their direct trains to town and have to get off and change at Howth Junction. I'd want to see some stations improvements at HJ. Its design and clientele aren't the most pleasant. Definitely in the top 3 dodgiest stations on the Dart.
bk wrote: » It is a 10 minute walk and a pleasant one at that to the Business Park. On a wet day, it is nicer to just jump in the shuttle bus, but if it wasn't there, it would still be within easy walking distance. A 10 minute walk is considered completely normal for a rail station. It is exactly a 10 minute walk, 800m's from the entrance to the DART station to East Wall Road. Sure, they are plenty of parts of East Wall further away then that. But then if you moved the station, you would also move it much further away from the people of Clontarf Road/Marino/Fairview who currently have it on it's doorstep. No one who makes this suggestion, seems to be thinking about their reaction to such a move. I'll give you Croker, that would be handy.
loyatemu wrote: » when I worked in Eastpoint what really annoyed me was having to get off the Dart, walk the length of the platform, over the bridge, then walk back the way I'd come to get to Eastpoint. A simple improvement would be to have access and a bridge at the southern end of the platforms.
lucernarian wrote: » As for the reality of the situation, Clontarf Road itself is cocooned from the west, where the access road to Fairview depot is along with the gym/fitness centre. No easy way to remedy that based on its current location. If Eastpoint Business park is responsible for the majority of trips to and from there, and its location is clearly suboptimal even for that purpose, you'd have to question its primary utility when the various bus routes operating nearby will serve people far more conveniently to most destinations accessible by the DART in the first place. Even an access close to the bridge crossing of Howth Road would be far better for the trip generators around Fairview and Marino than the current station layout is.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » I doubt Clontarf Road station can be moved south because of the depot and then the junctions south of that again. The location of the station isn't that big an issue, the layout and design of the station is and that is what needs to be addressed.
LXFlyer wrote: » Clontarf Road Station should get a usage boost from next year, when the new orbital bus routes, N2 and N4, will serve the station at frequencies of up to every 15 minutes and every 10 minutes respectively.
lucernarian wrote: » It doesn't need a usage boost
Pete_Cavan wrote: » How important are the sidings between Clontarf Road station and Westwood? It would be a big improvement if access to the northbound platform could be provided on the Westwood. To do so the depot access road would have to shift closer to the Westwood entrance and the red brick building demolished (I have an idea what it is but I see a DCC logo on it and assume its something that can be relocated). Also, having drivers change at the station would be great.
lucernarian wrote: » It doesn't need a usage boost... In 2019 the station was at crush capacity at peak times (both embarking and disembarking). The peaky nature of the shuttle bus traffic was bad enough, mixed in with people *starting* their commute because they park there or live nearby. A single <2 metre wide staircase governs all access to and from the platforms. How is this a good thing?
densification wrote: » There are much busier stations (in Ireland and elsewhere). The stations needs at least one other entrance but preferably two. If these are well designed, the station will never be at crush capacity, even at peak.
AngryLips wrote: » It needs more passive surveillance so that you don't feel like you're about to get mugged or raped just walking to reach it
lucernarian wrote: » You're ignoring the usage pattern of this station if you're trying to downplay the issue of the single staircase for both platforms. At 8:30 am there are dozens of people running down the less than 2 metre wide usable staircase to get to the soon to depart shuttle bus, while you've got quite a few people looking to commute elsewhere on the same train the other group just got off, fighting their way up the same staircase. At times it's felt dangerous to me. At least you agree it needs another method of accessing the platform(s).
densification wrote: » Pretty much all commuter rail in Ireland and the UK is aggressively peaked. Can’t speak for elsewhere. I’ve been on the central line on the underground at 8am (32 tph) where nearly everyone gets off at a few stops in the city. It’s not comfortable but it works. There’s no reason why a well designed station can’t handle a hundred or so people getting off a train at once. I think we can both agree that the station was cheaply built to a low standard by people who didn’t have a great understanding of passenger flows, permeability etc. The passenger volumes are not the problem; the crappy design is.
lucernarian wrote: » Yes, I'd just not encourage even more use at the station when it's already dangerously crowded due to unique factors at peak times, like being able to see the bus you need about to depart outside right from where you get out of the train, and two rows of people merge to one (causing a jam up and down two staircases). It's a nightmare waiting to happen. A conversation about all this might need its own thread even, I'll try not to divert it from here on
densification wrote: » Jaysus you’re going on like it’s Shinjuku station in Tokyo . It has barely over 2000 boardings per day. It’s not even in the top 10 busiest Dart stations. Tara street only has one staircase Most of the time. There’s only one way to get to platforms 7&6 at Connolly. It’s a bit of a squash but it’s grand. East Point can invest in a few new (electric) buses if they’re overcrowded.
Bicycle on DART.
In the excitement of DART+, and all the fanfare that goes with I sort of assumed that they'd bring in the Copenhagen S-Tog practice of having a special carriage at the end of all trains on all S-Tog lines (5 radial and 1 circular) that are for bicycle storage. I mean if you're going to completely overhall a city's antiquated commuter rail systems at a cost greater than €2bn, then that's what you'd do right?......RIGHT??
But actually I can't find anything on this in the DART+ literature. Has anyone who's been to the information meetings heard anything about this? seems a massive oversight. They'd hardly not make provisions for bikes in this day and age, surely?
Modern railways is reporting in their August issue that Iarnrod Eireann has informed Alstom that it is the preferred manufacturer for the new DART fleet which they're saying will be 5 and 10 car sets with up to 750 coaches.
It is also reported that IE has received permission to explore options for a new enterprise fleet.
