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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Beasty

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Mod Warnings

1. Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

2. Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please. You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it

3. Stick to the topic, which is not moderation or other users. Remain civil. Report, don't react, to posts or posters who you think are an issue. This is unfortunately a polarised topic for some (not all). There is some middle ground though and please do not think the worse of posters simply because you have opposing views

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Theboinkmaster

khalessi wrote: »

Incorrect as far as Dept is concerned same bubbles pods and windows in Sept

Always interesting how people who have no clue how schools operate declare matters over with.

That's fine - pods, masks etc. is OK.

But they'll never close again or disrupted like this year just gone.

So essentially COVID is over.

Van.Bosch

Will schools require students who have been abroad to take two weeks off when they return like the current setup? Has there been any details on this?

khalessi

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

That's fine - pods, masks etc. is OK.

But they'll never close again or disrupted like this year just gone.

So essentially COVID is over.

Thank you for your input

km79

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Will schools require students who have been abroad to take two weeks off when they return like the current setup? Has there been any details on this?

I would assume so or what is the point of all the restrictions we are still being forced to abide by ?

seamus

km79 wrote: »

I would hope/assume not through schools.

Why? Genuinely curious here, not being argumentative.
Seems to me the easiest way through is to commandeer a big hall, set up a load of booths, an HSE team arrives and the kids file through class by class, getting their jabs.

Just like they do with the 4 in 1.

wirelessdude01

seamus wrote: »

Why? Genuinely curious here, not being argumentative.
Seems to me the easiest way through is to commandeer a big hall, set up a load of booths, an HSE team arrives and the kids file through class by class, getting their jabs.

Just like they do with the 4 in 1.

And what about the kids whose parents don't consent? Wide open to ridicule and bullying.

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And what about the kids whose parents don't consent? Wide open to ridicule and bullying.

Didn't think about that tbh.
How is that aspect normally managed with vaccines at school ?

seamus

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And what about the kids whose parents don't consent? Wide open to ridicule and bullying.

They don't get jabbed.

Not exactly a huge issue. The kids are quietly given something else to do at the time, or the parents advised to keep their kids at home that day. The teachers don't loudly announce who will and won't be getting vaccinated.

km79

seamus wrote: »

Why? Genuinely curious here, not being argumentative.
Seems to me the easiest way through is to commandeer a big hall, set up a load of booths, an HSE team arrives and the kids file through class by class, getting their jabs.

Just like they do with the 4 in 1.

And most of them end up going home after
It’s messy
This will be even messier as the vaccine is likely to cause reactions
Schools and teachers are not medical experts . Vaccines should be managed and administered in appropriate medical settings imo .
Given that these vaccine also requires a 15 minutes monitoring period after and that it will be across all year groups you are looking at at least a week of disruption in a large school .

derb12

seamus wrote: »

They don't get jabbed.

Not exactly a huge issue. The kids are quietly given something else to do at the time, or the parents advised to keep their kids at home that day. The teachers don't loudly announce who will and won't be getting vaccinated.

I agree - we’ve always had a few students who either didn’t want the vaccine or had already had it - no biggie.

I would hope that other vaccines like HPV and 4in1 will be administered in school again. We had a couple of days when 4 or 5 students were absent for classes due to the way the vaccines were administered. It was very disruptive.

I remember students and teachers rolling up sleeves for the swine flu jab back in the day - it was very efficient, and any parent was free to opt their child out.

hesaidshesaid

derb12 wrote: »

I agree - we’ve always had a few students who either didn’t want the vaccine or had already had it - no biggie.

I would hope that other vaccines like HPV and 4in1 will be administered in school again. We had a couple of days when 4 or 5 students were absent for classes due to the way the vaccines were administered. It was very disruptive.

I remember students and teachers rolling up sleeves for the swine flu jab back in the day - it was very efficient, and any parent was free to opt their child out.

Are you secondary or primary? This definitely didn’t happen re. Swine Flu in our (primary) school.

km79

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Are you secondary or primary? This definitely didn’t happen re. Swine Flu in our (primary) school.

Never happened in secondary schools in ireland either to my recollection

Sammy2012

Disappointed to hear that the same set up will be required in schools next year. Most of the staff in my school will be fully vaccinated by the time we go back at the end of August. We didn't have one case of covid in our school all year. And we had one of the best attendances since I started teaching. I have to admit I was apprehensive about going back to work in March but now I just want things back to normal. Fed up hearing about variants and what "might" happen. There is risk associated with everything in life. We need to move on now.

hesaidshesaid

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

That's fine - pods, masks etc. is OK.

But they'll never close again or disrupted like this year just gone.

So essentially COVID is over.

You say COVID is over. And I would agree that schools won’t, and shouldn’t, close again. But there are some major changes in how we have to conduct teaching and learning now, changes which are impacting kids every day and which shouldn’t be overlooked. It’s more comfortable for adults to reassure themselves with the ‘COVID is over, schools are safe’ narrative, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

Just to clarify, pods are bull****. The virus has been proven to be airborne for months now. The Dept are insisting that pods be continued with to make Public Health’s job easier - if ‘pods’ are happening, then they only need to test that group of kids. What this means for kids is that they end up sitting beside the same person and in the same place in the classroom for a whole term at a time. If they are in after-school with certain kids, or if they go to small-group learning support with certain kids, these are the ones they have to sit beside. So if you’re 7 and you don’t get on with the bully from after-school, you’re stuck with her for at least 4 months from Sept-Dec. Think about the social impact that has on kids. Usually they move seats every month and in doing so have opportunities to create a variety of friendships and working relationships with many of the kids in their class. This has not been possible all this year and will not be possible next year. The impact is already obvious in schools.

Secondly, there is no singing. If you cast your mind back to primary school, you learn a huge amount through song. Huge amounts of Irish vocabulary are attained by learning songs and rhymes; there are little songs to remember rivers and counties in Geography, the list goes on. Not to mention the positive benefits of group singing in the classroom or in a school choir. The kids really miss this, learning is much more monotonous and old-fashioned because of it. Ask yourself why you remember the words of songs years later, it’s a particular form of learning and a very effective one which we cannot use again next year.

Masks are a massive issue if you are a teacher because essentially your job is to talk all day. Wearing a mask dries out your throat and ultimately affects your voice. In younger classes, much of the teaching involves phonics and sounds for which the kids need to see your face. They need to see how the sounds are formed. Kids with additional needs, for example those with communication needs, really struggle to interpret what the teacher means when she/he has a mask covering most of their face. Teaching is a communicative process, it’s not as effective when wearing a mask. Kids get frustrated because they can’t hear you or they heard the instructions incorrectly. It can be much more difficult to control a class. This will be the same next year.

I could go on here, but my final point is this. Kids are not stupid. We have spent all year answering their very reasonable questions about why the government had them in classrooms of 30 kids with only open windows to protect them. About why we had to wear masks and they didn’t. About how being in pods was supposed to protect them when they were all breathing the same air. There are many kids out there who have learned this year that their safety is not always the priority of those in charge of schools.

So COVID is not over. We may wish it was, especially in schools, but it is not.

khalessi

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Are you secondary or primary? This definitely didn’t happen re. Swine Flu in our (primary) school.

km79 wrote: »

Never happened in secondary schools in ireland either to my recollection

I do remember Pandemrix being given around 2009/ 2010 which I think was for H1N1 flu outbreak, which could be what derb could be referring to.

derb12

khalessi wrote: »

I do remember Pandemrix being given around 2009/ 2010 which I think was for H1N1 flu outbreak, which could be what derb could be referring to.

Yes - I assumed it was all schools at the time. From recollection, I think swine flu was more serious for younger age groups. I remember being relieved to get a vaccine so I would be less likely to pass it to my own young asthma-y kids.

I was teaching in secondary by the way. I can’t recall whether my then primary-school kids got their vaccine in school or at the GP.

noplacehere

I was in a secondary school with boarding house and there was definitely at least one vaccine given out for some flu way back. Can’t remember specifics now

Szero

I worry that schools are going to be a hot-bed for Delta in September.

Ireland has the highest under 18 population in the EU and as such we need more focus on the vaccination of children.

I don't think secondary schools should reopen until 12-17 year olds have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

With 1 million Pfizer on the way from Romania ... surely it won't be too long until we have enough doses to start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds.

Ideally first doses would happen in early August, second doses at the end of August and schools reopen thereafter. In reality it will be later. But if it is later then we should adjust the school calendar accordingly ... for example if 12-17 year olds will not be fully vaccinated until mid September, then we should not open schools until 1 week thereafter.

We can stop a big spread in secondary schools in September with smart planning.

khalessi

Szero wrote: »

I worry that schools are going to be a hot-bed for Delta in September.

Ireland has the highest under 18 population in the EU and as such we need more focus on the vaccination of children.

I don't think secondary schools should reopen until 12-17 year olds have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

With 1 million Pfizer on the way from Romania ... surely it won't be too long until we have enough doses to start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds.

Ideally first doses would happen in early August, second doses at the end of August and schools reopen thereafter. In reality it will be later. But if it is later then we should adjust the school calendar accordingly ... for example if 12-17 year olds will not be fully vaccinated until mid September, then we should not open schools until 1 week thereafter.

We can stop a big spread in secondary schools in September with smart planning.

Sad to say but smart planning and Dept of Education don't exactly go together.

Sammy2012

Szero wrote: »

I worry that schools are going to be a hot-bed for Delta in September.

Ireland has the highest under 18 population in the EU and as such we need more focus on the vaccination of children.

I don't think secondary schools should reopen until 12-17 year olds have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

With 1 million Pfizer on the way from Romania ... surely it won't be too long until we have enough doses to start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds.

Ideally first doses would happen in early August, second doses at the end of August and schools reopen thereafter. In reality it will be later. But if it is later then we should adjust the school calendar accordingly ... for example if 12-17 year olds will not be fully vaccinated until mid September, then we should not open schools until 1 week thereafter.

We can stop a big spread in secondary schools in September with smart planning.

Can I ask why we'd need to vaccinate children if all adults are vaccinated? There are very few kids being hospitalised from this and if all the vulnerable are vaccinated what is the problem? I am not anti vaccine by the way. My kids have all their vaccines plus one or 2 extra and myself and my husband will be fully vaccinated next week again covid.

SusanC10

Szero wrote: »

I worry that schools are going to be a hot-bed for Delta in September.

Ireland has the highest under 18 population in the EU and as such we need more focus on the vaccination of children.

I don't think secondary schools should reopen until 12-17 year olds have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

With 1 million Pfizer on the way from Romania ... surely it won't be too long until we have enough doses to start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds.

Ideally first doses would happen in early August, second doses at the end of August and schools reopen thereafter. In reality it will be later. But if it is later then we should adjust the school calendar accordingly ... for example if 12-17 year olds will not be fully vaccinated until mid September, then we should not open schools until 1 week thereafter.

We can stop a big spread in secondary schools in September with smart planning.

I do have hopes that the Government will approve the vaccination of Ages 12-15 with Pfizer and administer the vaccines sooner than expected now in particular with this news of the 1m Pfizer/Moderna doses from Romania along with Ages 18+ approval for J&J and AZ.

Has EMA approved Moderna yet in Ages 12+?

JTMan

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Can I ask why we'd need to vaccinate children if all adults are vaccinated? There are very few kids being hospitalised from this and if all the vulnerable are vaccinated what is the problem?

1. Prevents spread to more vulnerable groups.
2. Gets us closer to herd immunity.
3. Disease prevention. Even if it is a mild sickness, the vaccine prevents disease ... and a minority of children get very sick with Covid.
4. Around 5% of Children who catch Covid, get Long Covid.
5. The vaccines might offer life long protection, so children might continue to have immunity into their adulthood.

[Deleted User]

Szero wrote: »

I worry that schools are going to be a hot-bed for Delta in September.

Ireland has the highest under 18 population in the EU and as such we need more focus on the vaccination of children.

I don't think secondary schools should reopen until 12-17 year olds have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

With 1 million Pfizer on the way from Romania ... surely it won't be too long until we have enough doses to start the vaccinations of 12-17 year olds.

Ideally first doses would happen in early August, second doses at the end of August and schools reopen thereafter. In reality it will be later. But if it is later then we should adjust the school calendar accordingly ... for example if 12-17 year olds will not be fully vaccinated until mid September, then we should not open schools until 1 week thereafter.

We can stop a big spread in secondary schools in September with smart planning.

I can’t believe this debate is ongoing. Schools have been fine. And in the uk, with delta rampant and less vaccine than we will have had come September, they are still open

[Deleted User]

JTMan wrote: »

1. Prevents spread to more vulnerable groups.
2. Gets us closer to herd immunity.
3. Disease prevention. Some children get very sick with Covid.
4. Around 5% of Children who catch Covid, get Long Covid.
5. The vaccines might offer life long protection, so children might continue to have immunity into their adulthood.

4 is just not true

JTMan

Deleted User wrote: »

4 is just not true

From the Lancet via National Geographic article on Long Covid in Children ...

Australian researchers tracked 171 younger COVID-positive children (median age 3) and found that 8 percent reported post-COVID manifestations up to two months later. In this study, though, by six months all of them had recovered.

From the ONS in the UK ...

7-8% of 2-15 yr olds & 12% of 17-24 yr olds reported symptoms for over 12 weeks

[Deleted User]

JTMan wrote: »

From the Lancet via National Geographic article on Long Covid in Children ...

From the ONS in the UK ...

The duration of post-viral cough ranged from 3 weeks to 8 weeks and of post-viral fatigue ranged from 6 weeks to 8 weeks from the time of symptom onset.

“A little bit longer than regular Covid” would be a better name.

And a persistent cough in children following viral infection is not at all unusual.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

4 is just not true

I hope not to find out

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1410875627402514442

BTW Raind you never said what work you do in schools?

[Deleted User]

khalessi wrote: »

I hope not to find out

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1410875627402514442

BTW Raind you never said what work you do in schools?

Oh. I am so sorry, I did not realise that only those who work in schools are “involved” in schools and are the only one permitted to have an opinion. Having kids in school, being on the parents association is not “involved” at all

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh. I am so sorry, I did not realise that only those who work in schools are “involved” in schools and are the only one permitted to have an opinion. Having kids in school, being on the parents association is not “involved” at all

I was just wondering because you implied more than Parents Association and dropping someone at the gate, when asked by someone else. I hate to say it but your knowledge of Covid in schools would be limited to hearsay. The PA have not been allowed in schools since Covid kicked in. No need to get all funny this whole thread is evidence that you dont have to work in schools to comment but it does help to be on the coalface so to speak.

What do you make of Norma's announcement re Carbon Dioxide monitors?

[Deleted User]

khalessi wrote: »

I was just wondering because you implied more than Parents Association and dropping someone at the gate, when asked by someone else. I hate to say it but your knowledge of Covid in schools would be limited to hearsay. The PA have not been allowed in schools since Covid kicked in. No need to get all funny this whole thread is evidence that you dont have to work in schools to comment but it does help to be on the coalface so to speak.

What do you make of Norma's announcement re Carbon Dioxide monitors?

What absolute arrogant tosh. “You wouldn’t know man, you weren’t there”. I hope this thread is not representative of the opinion of teachers on the parents and communities involved in the schools where you are employed. Remember when ye are long retired, us, our kids and our grandkids will still be invested in the success of the schools in our communities.

Off ye go for the next two months trying to close the schools for the Autumn in spite of all the evidence everywhere, not just Ireland, that it has been safe to open schools