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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Beasty

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Mod Warnings

1. Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

2. Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please. You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it

3. Stick to the topic, which is not moderation or other users. Remain civil. Report, don't react, to posts or posters who you think are an issue. This is unfortunately a polarised topic for some (not all). There is some middle ground though and please do not think the worse of posters simply because you have opposing views

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JDD

khalessi wrote: »

If a child shows one symptom of Covid they should be tested, not all children with covid have temperatures. So yup while it is an inconvenience it is part of Health and Safety protocol

I see your point, but I guess GPs have been told to look for two symptoms in order not to overwhelm the testing system with children who have normal seasonal coughs. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm assuming someone with more info than you or me on the matter made this decision at some stage.

khalessi

JDD wrote: »

I see your point, but I guess GPs have been told to look for two symptoms in order not to overwhelm the testing system with children who have normal seasonal coughs. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm assuming someone with more info than you or me on the matter made this decision at some stage.

No that chnged GPs were told one symptom, it was 2 in the beginning but since last Sept it has been just one symptom, get child tested

wirelessdude01

See that school in Drogheda was finally allowed to close. They wanted to do that a few days ago.

Locotastic

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See that school in Drogheda was finally allowed to close. They wanted to do that a few days ago.

Our local secondary closed last Friday due to outbreaks, haven't seen much reported in media about schools having to close either, yet I know ours isn't the only one.

When I say they closed, it was more like we're here but we are also online and end of year exams will be made available online. Not officially closed but please don't attend kind of thing.

Over half of the school population had already been pulled out anyway due to cases, close contacts or just parental concern. I had already removed mine when it became apparent that things were starting to get bad, so they managed a grand total of 3 weeks in the building this year so far.

We had zero cases in the schools where I am since the start, up until after Easter holidays.

JDD

We had zero cases in the schools where I am since the start, up until after Easter holidays

In fairness we had really low cases across the country from September to early November, and even the 1k daily peak just before November came down fairly quickly until it started to rise again at the end of December.

Whereas now we've had a steady 300-500 a day for weeks on end, so there's bound to be a bit more of the virus in the community than there was in Q4 last year.

I completely understand you taking your children out of school when there's an outbreak. I'd do the same. Not that I would think that they would end up in hospital or anything, but I wouldn't want to catch it off them before I got my first vaccine, and I'd be worried about the small chance of long covid symptoms for them.

I do wonder why people want localised school closures splashed all over the papers and on the RTE news though? I understand the worry that open schools would act as a firestarter for widespread community transmission, leading to massive hospitalisations and deaths in the vulnerable populations, but aren't we past that now? A school closing in Blanchardstown or Wexford doesn't have the same connotations as it did six months ago. The vulnerable (medically speaking) are mostly all vaccinated now. Having the closure in the media would just unnecessarily fuel anxiety.

ShineOn7

HSE data released today shows Schools/Childcare facilities to have the most amount of outbreaks and cases*

They'll surely have to start looking at vaxxing the kids from September onwards, the States are doing this already

All Schools are closed from next Wednesday I believe which gives us more R0 to play with. We'll fecking need it with Delta on the rise

The numbers for Nursing homes, Community hospitals etc are very encouraging for vaccines in general

(* I'm not sure what period these figures cover upto Saturday, it doesn't say. A week maybe?)

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jimmytwotimes 2013

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Schools are safe

[Deleted User]

ShineOn7 wrote: »

HSE data released today shows Schools/Childcare facilities to have the most amount of outbreaks and cases*

They'll surely have to start looking at vaxxing the kids from September onwards, the States are doing this already

All Schools are closed from next Wednesday I believe which gives us more R0 to play with. We'll fecking need it with Delta on the rise

The numbers for Nursing homes, Community hospitals etc are very encouraging for vaccines in general

(* I'm not sure what period these figures cover upto Saturday, it doesn't say. A week maybe?)

What setting would one imagine has the fewest number of vaccinations? Tough one that

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What setting would one imagine has the fewest number of vaccinations? Tough one that

What setting would one imagine will still have the fewest vaccinations by September? Tough one that

[Deleted User]

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

What setting would one imagine will still have the fewest vaccinations by September? Tough one that

Hmm, if only the only 18s are unvaccinated come September how much of a problem will we have?

vid36

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmm, if only the only 18s are unvaccinated come September how much of a problem will we have?

Quite a lot if current experiences in England are replicated here.One quarter of schoolchildren in Greater Manchester are currently isolating.

[Deleted User]

vid36 wrote: »

Quite a lot if current experiences in England are replicated here.One quarter of schoolchildren in Greater Manchester are currently isolating.

There is a major disconnect. Those who believe it’s nothing, and those who believe any virus is the end of the world. If transmission is only happening in the very young, there is no significant issue. We are only a couple of months away from there

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a major disconnect. Those who believe it’s nothing, and those who believe any virus is the end of the world. If transmission is only happening in the very young, there is no significant issue. We are only a couple of months away from there

Well Deepti Gurdasani would disagree with you in regards to there being no significant issue, based on the incidences of long covid in children, as would Zoe Hyde but sure they're probably wrong and don't know as much about Covid as you do.

[Deleted User]

khalessi wrote: »

Well Deepti Gurdasani would disagree with you in regards to there being no significant issue, based on the incidences of long covid in children, as would Zoe Hyde but sure they're probably wrong and don't know as much about Covid as you do.

I can’t believe this discussion is ongoing, and sometimes think those in the restrictions thread may be on to something. At this stage we all know loads of people who have had the virus. We all know schools where there were cases. We have no evidence than post viral conditions associated with Covid occur in larger numbers with children than with any other virus. And the evidence of Zoe Hyde is around long Covid in hospitalised patients. The numbers are tiny in school age.

And to be honest, on top of this, if the vast majority of adults are vaccinated, transmission into and between schools will be significantly interrupted anyway reducing impacts further

CruelSummer

khalessi wrote: »

Well Deepti Gurdasani would disagree with you in regards to there being no significant issue, based on the incidences of long covid in children, as would Zoe Hyde but sure they're probably wrong and don't know as much about Covid as you do.

Children are not seriously affected by Covid. Why would they have to take a vaccine that poses more of a risk to them than Covid itself? Especially when all those at risk are vaccinated.

History Queen

CruelSummer wrote: »

Children are not seriously affected by Covid. Why would they have to take a vaccine that poses more of a risk to them than Covid itself? Especially when all those at risk are vaccinated.

Some of them are at risk. Some of them live in houses with people who cannot be vaccinated. Some parents don't want to risk their child being the unlucky one who suffers long term effects. There are lost of reasons to vaccinate (and not as the case may be). Sweeping statements help no one.

CruelSummer

History Queen wrote: »

Some of them are at risk. Some of them live in houses with people who cannot be vaccinated. Some parents don't want to risk their child being the unlucky one who suffers long term effects. There are lost of reasons to vaccinate (and not as the case may be). Sweeping statements help no one.

Exactly. Your sweeping statements re children actually just describe a tiny minority of children in a tiny percentage of situations. Sweeping statements that all children should have to take a vaccine that poses more risk to them than Covid will help no one.

History Queen

CruelSummer wrote: »

Exactly. Your sweeping statements re children actually just describe a tiny minority of children in a tiny percentage of situations. Sweeping statements that all children should have to take a vaccine that poses more risk to them than Covid will help no one.

What sweeping statement did I make? What do you mean the vaccine poses more risk to children than covid?

wirelessdude01

CruelSummer wrote: »

Exactly. Your sweeping statements re children actually just describe a tiny minority of children in a tiny percentage of situations. Sweeping statements that all children should have to take a vaccine that poses more risk to them than Covid will help no one.

What risks does it pose to them?

Lumen

The CFR for kids was about 0.15% in a large US study. We have about 1.2m kids.

If 60% become cases, as you might expect eventually if we can't eliminate Covid through adult vaccination, that's about a thousand dead kids.

How many would the vaccine kill?

https://www.chop.edu/news/study-involving-seven-major-children-s-hospitals-shows-covid-19-typically-mild-children

[Deleted User]

Lumen wrote: »

The CFR for kids was about 0.15% in a large US study. We have about 1.2m kids.

If 60% become cases, as you might expect eventually if we can't eliminate Covid through adult vaccination, that's about a thousand dead kids.

How many would the vaccine kill?

https://www.chop.edu/news/study-involving-seven-major-children-s-hospitals-shows-covid-19-typically-mild-children

Please read the article being used to support your point before posting. 0.15% of those with pre existing conditions.

beggars_bush

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Schools are safe

Norma? Is that you?

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

Please read the article being used to support your point before posting. 0.15% of those with pre existing conditions.

I did read it but may have misunderstood.

"the researchers examined electronic health records from 135,794 pediatric patients who had been tested for SARS-CoV-2 up to September 8, 2020. Of those tested, 5,374 (4.0%) were positive for the virus.
...
Of the 5,374 patients who tested positive, ... Overall, 8 patients who tested positive died, resulting in a case fatality rate of 0.15%."

Are you saying all of those 5,374 had pre existing conditions?

It seems like every child who gets sick from Covid will be a paediatric patient, but not all will have pre-existing conditions.

I guess there is bias, so what's the CFR for the whole population of children?

[Deleted User]

Lumen wrote: »

I did read it but may have misunderstood.

"the researchers examined electronic health records from 135,794 pediatric patients who had been tested for SARS-CoV-2 up to September 8, 2020. Of those tested, 5,374 (4.0%) were positive for the virus.
...
Of the 5,374 patients who tested positive, ... Overall, 8 patients who tested positive died, resulting in a case fatality rate of 0.15%."

Are you saying all of those 5,374 had pre existing conditions?

It seems like every child who gets sick from Covid will be a paediatric patient, but not all will have pre-existing conditions.

I guess there is bias, so what's the CFR for the whole population of children?

135,794 pediatric patients who had been tested for SARS-CoV-2

These were children already in the hospital system

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

These were children already in the hospital system

Crikey you would wonder how they got there with their long Covid? Did it just magically appear?

[Deleted User]

khalessi wrote: »

Crikey you would wonder how they got there with their long Covid? Did it just magically appear?

This was a study of children in hospital for all reasons, not a study of children in hospital for covid.

4% of the children in the hospital systems studied tested positive for covid, and 7% of the 4% developed serious illness

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

This was a study of children in hospital for all reasons, not a study of children in hospital for covid.

4% of the children in the hospital systems studied tested positive for covid, and 7% of the 4% developed serious illness

I did quote Dr Gabriel Scally a while ago from a radio interview, saying 1 in 8 primary children got Long Covid and 1 in 7 secondary when discussing Covid in Britain. Interesting figures though i am sure due to the difference in severity of the illness not all ended up in hospital. We cannot look at figures here due to the curtain of GDPR.

Why are you and CS always so dismissive?

It happens and at the moment in adults they are noticing an issue with decreasing grey matter being replaced with white matter. It is a small number but should not be ignored.
I am glad you arent in power otherwise people with CF in this country would be ignored because CF occurs in 1 in 20 people here (1 in 16 Cork).

I find it interesting you are quick to dismiss any mention of continuing illnesses that dont match your utopic view.

JDD

So this is the last day for most primary schools.

Should we see a drop in case numbers in two weeks time to reflect the lack of circulation of the virus within schools? I think we should - given we'll have approx 600,000 children not on top of each other every day. What do we all think? Perhaps any drop will be masked by the inevitable increase due to the Delta variant?

selectamatic

The vast majority of primary schools on the east side of the country will be open till the 30th

jrosen

Schools here open until the 30th.

I think with society open again any drop in cases we may have seen from schools being closed will be made up by adults and families mixing.