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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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[Deleted User]

liamog wrote: »

Tesla are by far the biggest rip off when it comes to their charging network, a one time €39,000 membership fee that comes with a free car!

As usual the Irish customers are ripped off in tune of another 10k on top of the correct prices. First Tesla and then VW with the WeCharge not applying here.

:‐)

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The hope is that eventually they'll see sense and the AC22's will be replaced with 44kW DC units......

and in an even more ideal world, if those replaced AC22's are still in good serviceable condition, they should be re-deployed to new* or existing locations.

*unfortunately eCars said there would be no new locations, but it would be at least nice to double up the number of AC plugs in existing locations... (1 AC22 in a village somewhere just aint going to cut it).

Yeah there's lots of places where 22kW AC makes sense, workplaces, hotels, tourist spots, train stations (sort of)

Just not supermarkets, I'm glad to see some of the AC units being replaced with 44kW DC ones, much more versatile IMO, especially since they still support AC as well

Gumbo

sh81722 wrote: »

As usual the Irish customers are ripped off in tune of another 10k on top of the correct prices. First Tesla and then VW with the WeCharge not applying here.

:‐)

Just be a peasant and buy an older Model S

I have free lifetime unlimited super charging

Kramer

Notwithstanding its recent survey results, the infrastructure question “can be a little overplayed,” suggests IEVOA spokesperson Kevin Dowling.

“Ireland is in a pretty decent place in this regard I]charging infrastructure[/I and the Government needs to future-proof it. We need to avoid a situation where we store technical debt in the future by having too much unnecessary infrastructure. In fact, the focus on it acts as a detractor for many potential EV owners, who get scared by the doomsayers as regards infrastructure around the country.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/motors-focus-2021/infrastructure-key-to-electric-vehicle-changeover-1.4589749?mode=amp

Am I seeing something that isn't there, because to me, it seems like the IEVOA are saying we are well served already with charging infrastructure & demands for improvement are doomsaying, scaring more people away from BEVs :eek:.

All we need to do is "future proof" our dismal charging network, complete with 99% single point of failure 50kW DC units, here & there, not forgetting our single 3 unit HPC hub, which is limited to 60kW or similar I hear (& the largely useless AC points in selected Tesco stores

)

So, the IEVOA are in effect lobbying for "holding firm", we're already there, save the pennies on useless charging infrastructure.

Have I drank a bottle of wine without realising tonight?

.

Someone please explain how I'm misreading that!!

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Am I seeing something that isn't there, because to me, it seems like the IEVOA are saying we are well served already with charging infrastructure & demands for improvement are doomsaying, scaring more people away from BEVs :eek:.

All we need to do is "future proof" our dismal charging network, complete with 99% single point of failure 50kW DC units, here & there, not forgetting our single 3 unit HPC hub, which is limited to 60kW or similar I hear (& the largely useless AC points in selected Tesco stores )

So, the IEVOA are in effect lobbying for "holding firm", we're already there, save the pennies on useless charging infrastructure.

Have I drank a bottle of wine without realising tonight? .

Someone please explain how I'm misreading that!!

The guy from SIMI seemed pretty good, saying that planning laws should be updated to require EV charging. Pretty much hit the nail on the head IMO

The IEVOA guy didn't do great, contradicted himself a few times in the same sentence even

If I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, while public charging isn't great the problems are often overplayed by non EV owners saying stuff like there's nowhere to charge an EV or that it takes hours to charge anywhere

There isn't enough chargers for sure, but that's still better than no chargers

EDIT: Actually the IEVOA guy made one great point about the myriad of apps needed to access the networks and suggested there should be one central card like a Leap card

He should have gone a step further and suggested all chargers should has tap and pay terminals attached.

I mean we have these well established global spanning payments networks, why exactly aren't we using them???

Kramer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

The guy from SIMI seemed pretty good, saying that planning laws should be updated to require EV charging. Pretty much hit the nail on the head IMO

Yeah, I was surprised they seemed to have changed their tune - EV sales are becoming noticeable for them now - €60k ID.4s & eTrons are profitable I bet (with €10k taxpayer grants on top) :pac:.

But a lobby group basically saying we have great charging infrastructure is ridiculous. It's likely the J14 hub wasn't even operating when that article was formulated, so we had zero HPCs & zero hubs when he said that (Tesla & Ionity excluded, of course).

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Am I seeing something that isn't there, because to me, it seems like the IEVOA are saying we are well served already with charging infrastructure & demands for improvement are doomsaying, scaring more people away from BEVs :eek:.

All we need to do is "future proof" our dismal charging network, complete with 99% single point of failure 50kW DC units, here & there, not forgetting our single 3 unit HPC hub, which is limited to 60kW or similar I hear (& the largely useless AC points in selected Tesco stores )

That's a somewhat ironic response to claims that the infrastructure issues are overplayed, there are 110 locations on the island with CCS chargers, there are at least 7 sites with multiple DC chargers, so no 99% of our rapid charging network does not consist of locations with single points of failure.
There's still lots of improvement needed, but it's a lot better than it was 18 months ago.

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

There's still lots of improvement needed, but it's a lot better than it was 18 months ago.

There's no denying that it is better, but it should be miles better than it is & even was, 18 months ago.
Invest in the network, it'll be used. Money well spent.
We came up with what, €30/40bn overnight for Covid, but a paltry €10m to save the planet?

Lobby groups should be badgering government for investment in charging infrastructure, not basically saying what we already have is good enough & just needs some future-proofing :eek:.

We've covered somewhere around 100,000 "electric" kilometres over the last 2 years & the network is no where near good enough. The IEVOA or Independent didn't ask me for my thoughts though & I won't be heard by the transport minister, but I'll make some noise here

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

there are at least 7 sites with multiple DC chargers, so no 99% of our rapid charging network does not consist of locations with single points of failure.

Are you including Ionity & Tesla in that 7? While I didn't expressly name eCars, I was referring to "our" infrastructure, as in state funded/owned. I did exclude Tesla & Ionity in a follow up post.

Kramer wrote: »

It's likely the J14 hub wasn't even operating when that article was formulated, so we had zero HPCs & zero hubs when he said that (Tesla & Ionity excluded, of course).

I know of many more multiple DC sites, far more than 7. Dozens. Privately owned/operated & I wouldn't class them as part of "our" infrastructure.

What do we want?
More DC charging hubs!
When do we want them?
Now!

:pac:.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Are you including Ionity & Tesla in that 7? While I didn't expressly name eCars, I was referring to "our" infrastructure, as in state funded/owned. I did exclude Tesla & Ionity in a follow up post.

No just eCars sites.
Dublin Port, J14 Mayfield, Kilcullen, Portlaoise Plaza, Athlone, Carrick On Shannon, Kiltullagh

There's a whole thread about the investment programme

jjmcclure

A friend tells me DCI (Diesel Card Ireland) are launching EV charge cards in the next couple of weeks. Apparently they will also be installing home/office charge points and their EV card can be used for multi fuel so if you have a PHEV you can fill it with petrol/diesel and then top up your charge on the ESB network.

boccy23

Funnily enough, I just posted in the ID4 thread about this.

This is what they state:

Electric vehicle charge points nationally, main brands:
ESB, NewMotion, IONITY and Fastned

As you say, there are 2 options, PHEV with combined Fuel & EV or EV only.

Does anyone know about the NewMotion or Fastned aspect?

innrain

boccy23 wrote: »

Funnily enough, I just posted in the ID4 thread about this.

This is what they state:

Electric vehicle charge points nationally, main brands:
ESB, NewMotion, IONITY and Fastned

As you say, there are 2 options, PHEV with combined Fuel & EV or EV only.

Does anyone know about the NewMotion or Fastned aspect?

Dutch not in Ireland yet. Fastned announced they are looking to expand in UK and Ireland but my feeling is that they don't refer to the Republic.

jjmcclure

innrain wrote: »

Dutch not in Ireland yet. Fastned announced they are looking to expand in UK and Ireland but my feeling is that they don't refer to the Republic.

The company that owns DCI bought a charge point manufacturer and will be installing those as well as having a partnership with NM.

THE ALM

Emailed them yesterday for further details so just waiting to hear back, already have the standard fuel card.

Busman Paddy Lasty

liamog wrote: »

That's a somewhat ironic response to claims that the infrastructure issues are overplayed, there are 110 locations on the island with CCS chargers, there are at least 7 sites with multiple DC chargers, so no 99% of our rapid charging network does not consist of locations with single points of failure.
There's still lots of improvement needed, but it's a lot better than it was 18 months ago.

Fair play to them only 94% locations with single points of failure. Of the 103 single DC sites not one can charge eCars' 2017 Ioniq at 70kW if the car wants it.

Now that CCS is mentioned, the triple headers will stop a CCS charge if a CHAdeMO session is started. AFAIK this hasn't been fixed so that's an extra dimension to point of failure for CCS users.

Can't wait for the hubs to be finished but the above is solid reason for many to be very frustrated with the network at present.

liamog

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Can't wait for the hubs to be finished but the above is solid reason for many to be very frustrated with the network at present.

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems. I'm taking the Mini for a weekend trip to Galway from Dublin, on the route I'll be passing in reasonable proximity to 14 CCS charge points. That's not bad on a 200km journey.

slave1

Dependable hubs the only solution, I've a trip tomorrow and just looking at my car I'll arrive at Tesla Ballacolla with 6% SOC and I'm 100% anxiety free as I know there's 8 stalls there and they'll be working/available when i arrive

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems. I'm taking the Mini for a weekend trip to Galway from Dublin, on the route I'll be passing in reasonable proximity to 14 CCS charge points. That's not bad on a 200km journey.

True but would you say we're in a "good place" nationally as the IEVOA spokesperson said? Personally I would say we're in an alright or mediocre place as we have some routes with reasonably good infrastrucutre and many routes with poor or no infrastructure

We also have the majority of the network in the hands of a single comapany, always a recipe for disaster. This disaster struck last year when ESB's backend payment system hit an issue and the entire charging network went down

Imagine a HSE style cyber attack there, several weeks wthout public charging would be enough to put EV adoption back a decade at least

liamog

We're in a good place for the current number of cars on the road, what we're lacking is a network that can cope with the number of new EVs that I expect to be sold in the next 24 months.

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

Don't disagree with you here roll out of the bigger hubs is definitely required, but most peoples frustration with the network seems to be hypothetical rather than the cause of actual problems. I'm taking the Mini for a weekend trip to Galway from Dublin, on the route I'll be passing in reasonable proximity to 14 CCS charge points. That's not bad on a 200km journey.

Isn't that one of, if not the best served routes in the country though? Try to swap out Galway for Donegal, Kerry or Clare and see if you'd be happy setting off.

I don't use the rapid chargers much in Ireland. The reason for that is I don't feel that I could depend on it not to leave me high and dry. For that reason, I've bought an EV with a large battery. If the Irish network was more trustworthy, not only would it encourage uptake of EVs, but it would mean that buyers could choose to buy a car with a smaller battery, knowing that they have a network reliable enough to cover their travels.

I'm not one of the drivers on here constantly crying about the charging network, but I resent the IEVOA declaring that it's fine. It simply isn't. And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/motors-focus-2021/infrastructure-key-to-electric-vehicle-changeover-1.4589749?mode=amp

Am I seeing something that isn't there, because to me, it seems like the IEVOA are saying we are well served already with charging infrastructure & demands for improvement are doomsaying, scaring more people away from BEVs :eek:.

All we need to do is "future proof" our dismal charging network, complete with 99% single point of failure 50kW DC units, here & there, not forgetting our single 3 unit HPC hub, which is limited to 60kW or similar I hear (& the largely useless AC points in selected Tesco stores )

So, the IEVOA are in effect lobbying for "holding firm", we're already there, save the pennies on useless charging infrastructure.

Have I drank a bottle of wine without realising tonight? .

Someone please explain how I'm misreading that!!

I reread part of the article and I'm a bit more on the side of the IEVOA spokesperson now

Havings said that, he could do with being somewhat less diplomatic and a bit cleaer in his points. Generally if I have to unpick someone's meaning from what they said, and it's open to misinterpretation, they're either an awfulspokesperson or an excellent politician

He mentions not wanting technical debt by installing uneeded infrastructure. If he's referring to things like 22kW AC units at Tesco, then he's absolutely spot on. They aren't very useful to EV drivers so what's the point in even installing them now. They'll just need to be upgraded later to the needs of the market so why waste the money on them now

I don't understand why he couldn't simply say this. I guess if IEOVA cause too much grief for the government or ESB then they'll stop being consulted about EV owners opinions

If there was one thing the IEOVA should lobby the government for it's this:

EV charging is an essential public utility in the same way that electricity, communications and fuel are. As such, the public should be afforded the same access to charging as those other services

Busman Paddy Lasty

Silent Running wrote: »

And I think this summer will show it up for what it is: not fit for purpose, nationally.

Twice this week needed a DC top up due to ad hoc work. Both times there were three EVs at the triple headers. Me unplugging, next car plugging and last car leaving to get a charge elsewhere. One lad rocked up with 11% because his previous charger location wasn't working.

Busman Paddy Lasty

liamog wrote: »

We're in a good place for the current number of cars on the road, what we're lacking is a network that can cope with the number of new EVs that I expect to be sold in the next 24 months.

Careful now, not all EVs are born equal. We've been buying them by the dozen as company cars. Lads with fuel cards* so these EVs will use a disproportionate amount of DC charging. Once we start buying Transits by the dozen the network will be stressed much faster than tracking private car sales. A fleet of vans hogging charge points, that aren't trailer friendly, will be about as welcome as the GTI** I saw revving the nuts off it in Portlaoise plaza a weeks ago causing a nuisance.

*expense account for eCars bills
** sounded like a DSG transmission ripping around the car park

the_amazing_raisin

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Careful now, not all EVs are born equal. We've been buying them by the dozen as company cars. Lads with fuel cards* so these EVs will use a disproportionate amount of DC charging. Once we start buying Transits by the dozen the network will be stressed much faster than tracking private car sales. A fleet of vans hogging charge points, that aren't trailer friendly, will be about as welcome as the GTI** I saw revving the nuts off it in Portlaoise plaza a weeks ago causing a nuisance.

*expense account for eCars bills
** sounded like a DSG transmission ripping around the car park

This is something which has come up before, I'd be surprised if companies were happy paying high prices for electricity all the time. I imagine they'll either switch to a mileage payment, or when a campany provides an EV they'll also provide a home charger with some capability for usage tracking so this can be claimed back from the employer

ELM327

Theres already functionality for this. Easygo do it for instance. I've spoken to an owner of a company at an EV meet that has switched his fleet to EV, they give the drivers easygo fobs and it tracks all usage and allows access to all DC charging

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres already functionality for this. Easygo do it for instance. I've spoken to an owner of a company at an EV meet that has switched his fleet to EV, they give the drivers easygo fobs and it tracks all usage and allows access to all DC charging

True, I mean more around home charging. For example if I'm an employee and I can either pay for charging at home or get it free at a DC charger...then honestly I'd probably still charge at home

But still, for employers I imagine they'd be seeking to maximise their cost savings and encouraging employees to use expensive chargers doesn't really help this. Considering a comany can buy a home charger for employees at pretty low cost, I imagine the payback time versus using a lot of DC charging is pretty good

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

Busman Paddy Lasty

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

For cars yes AC charging at home or work is best but for fully loaded vans using what, 45kWh/100km(??) they will need to rapid charge a lot. Depending on where the site is could be two rapid charges per day. Was out during bad weather in January tons of pickups all pulling trailer with gritting equipment. They'll be pulling lawnmowers etc in this weather.

silver_sky

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

True, I mean more around home charging. For example if I'm an employee and I can either pay for charging at home or get it free at a DC charger...then honestly I'd probably still charge at home

But still, for employers I imagine they'd be seeking to maximise their cost savings and encouraging employees to use expensive chargers doesn't really help this. Considering a comany can buy a home charger for employees at pretty low cost, I imagine the payback time versus using a lot of DC charging is pretty good

Obviously the situation is different for shared vehicles in a company, I'm talking specifically about company cars assigned to a particular employee here

I've heard that they can get usage reports for home chargers for company expenses also. I could see it being a bit messy if the person also has a private car but surely with mileage etc. they could work out if things were amiss - plus you're not talking crazy money for charging.

the_amazing_raisin

silver_sky wrote: »

I've heard that they can get usage reports for home chargers for company expenses also. I could see it being a bit messy if the person also has a private car but surely with mileage etc. they could work out if things were amiss - plus you're not talking crazy money for charging.

Ideally the car could generate a report. It knows where and how much it charged and with plug and charge coming it'll know how much it is paying