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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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Silent Running

RandomViewer wrote: »

Need to sort smoking first, smoking effects more people than any diesel engine but because almost all "Greens" smoke like trains ,it's ignored. Blaming the diesel engine over people dying from cancer who smoke 60 a day is hilarious ,

We can't do both?

Cyrus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody I know would buy one. They are too expensive, wildly costly to fix out of warranty, nobody wants ever to have to queue for an hour to take 40 more minutes to refuel. You have to drive like my mother to get 70% of the quoted range. Great on paper, but we don't drive on paper.

Depends on what you are comparing to? A 2k bangernomic diesel or the same car like for like, if the latter then they aren't expensive.

As for the queuing for an hour to refuel for 40 minutes has anyone ever actually done that? Doubtful.

Most do 98 percent of their charging at home

AndyBoBandy

Cyrus wrote: »

Depends on what you are comparing to? A 2k bangernomic diesel or the same car like for like, if the latter then they aren't expensive.

As for the queuing for an hour to refuel for 40 minutes has anyone ever actually done that? Doubtful.

Most do 98 percent of their charging at home

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

[Deleted User]

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

Visiting a fast charger once or twice a month is preferable to having to visit the Petrol station every week or two. An EV is full and ready to go every morning.

[Deleted User]

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

14 months & 30,000km later, I have yet to queue to use a public charger, for the simple reason that I hardly ever have to use them….. 99.5% of charging is done at home, and the few times I have needed to charge in the wild, I never needed to queue!

I understand, but the perceived is that it will happen

[Deleted User]

cannco253 wrote: »

Heard about this earlier

Irish student proves his dad wrong by travelling length of Wild Atlantic Way in a Tesla

https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/motoring/irish-student-proves-dad-wrong-24245000

He'd be quicker on a bike

graememk

Deleted User wrote: »

He'd be quicker on a bike

Especially if they went from Malin, to Mizen, its all down hill isnt it? :P

handpref

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

I happened to be in South Dublin for the first time in 6 months today, it was id3 and id4 overload. Have they become the dryrobe for ev’s, I don’t know but they are getting people off fossil fuel so that’s the main thing. Maybe I’m sad the ev journey is over and it’s all gone mainstream, how I miss waiting in line for the abandoned leaf at the M1 services or the smell of the Applegreen toilets and wee soaked floor.

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?
Is the id4 the SUV type car that has filled the vacuum in that end of the market for people in crowded cities who need that big car feeling, but all green miles are good miles.

Remember the fanfare and new owners signing up for the L30 & L40, Tesla starting the fad of pre ordering cars and paying for a car that you haven’t driven. Marketing departments brainstorming ‘First Editions’ that don’t quite work right and have glitchy electronics yet people are lining up to hand over their hard earned cash.

The early adopters who revelled in the cheap running costs with this thing called night rate, manufacturers costings of ownership based on night time charging. New cars that don’t have the option to time a charge would have them turning over on their Lidl plug in seat heaters.

True legends of a bygone era like Phil in Electric Autos, the super fast charging 28kw Ioniq, the great Rex debates, Unkel, the Leaf speed motorway hyper milers, rapid gate, cold gate, Mad Lad, the high five to self as you roll in from work in winter with restricted power for the 5th day in a row.

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

[Deleted User]

Random Thought: I couldn't recommend EVs to most people in Ireland because the public charging network is so poor and the Greens are fixated on their bike paths.

unkel

handpref wrote: »

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?

Yep I think you hit the nail on the head there. Niro and Kona are good EVs, but they are based on ICE cars costing €10k-15k less. Also availability was pretty poor and the cars weren't great value for money and spec / options left a lot to be desired

Now we get the ID.3 and ID.4 from the biggest car maker in the world. There seems no limit to supply, the prices are reasonable and they are great allrounders. A spec and optional extras to please anyone and solid reasonable financing in place. Launched just when EVs are going mainstream, I've said for several years that 2021 was going to be the year of the EV. Everybody now knows we will all go electric sooner rather than later. VW's timing is proving to be excellent.

AndyBoBandy

Is it a badge of honour when Toyota Ireland first block you from making comments on their Facebook posts, to then blocking you seeing their tweets……

unkel

LOL, surely you didn't accuse them of making false claims about cars that are self-charging by any chance?

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

LOL, surely you didn't accuse them of making false claims about cars that are self-charging by any chance?

Every time they posted something I’d mention that every time I’m behind one of their self charging hybrids I see smoke coming out of the exhaust….. and also this picture…

kanuseeme

I like the bit at 45 seconds.

:D:D:D

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Yep I think you hit the nail on the head there. Niro and Kona are good EVs, but they are based on ICE cars costing €10k-15k less. Also availability was pretty poor and the cars weren't great value for money and spec / options left a lot to be desired

Now we get the ID.3 and ID.4 from the biggest car maker in the world. There seems no limit to supply, the prices are reasonable and they are great allrounders. A spec and optional extras to please anyone and solid reasonable financing in place. Launched just when EVs are going mainstream, I've said for several years that 2021 was going to be the year of the EV. Everybody now knows we will all go electric sooner rather than later. VW's timing is proving to be excellent.

I agree, the award for best timing goes to VW

If the ID.3 had come out 5 years ago I don't think it would have been as successful so quickly as it is now. EVs have very much come into the mainstream in the past few years

I hope they can keep up with demand, there's rumours of shortages of just about everything (except batteries ironically) so no doubt that'll start playing into availability soon

the_amazing_raisin

handpref wrote: »

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

I happened to be in South Dublin for the first time in 6 months today, it was id3 and id4 overload. Have they become the dryrobe for ev’s, I don’t know but they are getting people off fossil fuel so that’s the main thing. Maybe I’m sad the ev journey is over and it’s all gone mainstream, how I miss waiting in line for the abandoned leaf at the M1 services or the smell of the Applegreen toilets and wee soaked floor.

Is the id range the paradigm shift that got the masses to move to ev’s?
Was it the VW brand that attracted people to have an id3 as a second car or a prime mover where the niro or kona couldn’t ?
Is the id4 the SUV type car that has filled the vacuum in that end of the market for people in crowded cities who need that big car feeling, but all green miles are good miles.

Remember the fanfare and new owners signing up for the L30 & L40, Tesla starting the fad of pre ordering cars and paying for a car that you haven’t driven. Marketing departments brainstorming ‘First Editions’ that don’t quite work right and have glitchy electronics yet people are lining up to hand over their hard earned cash.

The early adopters who revelled in the cheap running costs with this thing called night rate, manufacturers costings of ownership based on night time charging. New cars that don’t have the option to time a charge would have them turning over on their Lidl plug in seat heaters.

True legends of a bygone era like Phil in Electric Autos, the super fast charging 28kw Ioniq, the great Rex debates, Unkel, the Leaf speed motorway hyper milers, rapid gate, cold gate, Mad Lad, the high five to self as you roll in from work in winter with restricted power for the 5th day in a row.

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

Gosh that was a great old rant

Don't worry, while EVs are a lot more common now they're still going to be niche for a while yet, so you can still bore all your neighbours talking about charging rates and electricity prices, and of course how you're planning to get solar panels

Incidentally I've noticed I'm being invited to fewer parties recently, I wonder what that is about...

Regarding your dilemma about charging, well it's up to you but personally I'd just swallow the expense and go for Ionity. Seems simpler than the hassle of borrowing an ICE and organising insurance, etc for a few days

unkel

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Incidentally I've noticed I'm being invited to fewer parties recently, I wonder what that is about...

That's because there haven't been any parties for quite some time

KCross

handpref wrote: »

Louth to Cork with a stop in Cashel..

Maybe I’m mistaken but is there only one ESB charger in the Cashel services ?

I’m looking at a 313km trip from home to my destination, a stop in Cashel would get me there and back to Cashel but it’s a busy spot.

I have the IONITY app on my phone but nothing linked to a credit card so was hoping not to have to use it.

It’s almost like being back in 2014 with one Esb charger to depend on. I need the ac43 for the zoe, could take the i3 but don’t fancy tearing the arse out of the Rex and having to do multiple stops to charge to reduce Rex run time or fuel fills or the IONITY faff or hoping they aren’t iced.

I’m thinking it would be easier to borrow an ice and just burn down and back with only needing to worry about finding a loo and a coffee. Obviously no scp’s anywhere near my destination.
I thought the ev charging game had moved on.

....

So where to from here, nobody knows, but Louth to Cork with no overnight charging is back to ice I think.....

Its hardly "tearing the arse out of the Rex"... isnt that exactly what its designed/intended for?

How far does the i3 go with a full tank of fuel and fully charged battery? Would you do the 313km with just one stop in Cashel?

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Regarding your dilemma about charging, well it's up to you but personally I'd just swallow the expense and go for Ionity. Seems simpler than the hassle of borrowing an ICE and organising insurance, etc for a few days

I was thinking the exact same... if its an occasional long distance trip why worry about the cost of Ionity... just pay it.

If you rock into Cashel (pun intended) and the eCars charger is available, then great hook up to that, but safe in the knowledge that if its not available you have 4 Ionity chargers there also.

NIMAN

As much as I am a fan of EVs, I think the current Renault advert for the Zoe is misleading.

In their advantages listed at the end, they state "no fuel costs".

Are they providing free electricity to charge it?

Roger_007

Does anyone know how the range is calculated by the manufacturers of EVs.
We all know that the stated fuel consumption figures for ICEVs are nowhere near what anyone actually gets in the real world. Is it the same with EVs?
If I’m supposed to get, say, 400km on a full charge, does that mean with 2 adults and 2 kids and their assorted bits and pieces, or does it mean with one very small adult driving at a steady 40kph on perfectly surfaced flat roads in perfect weather conditions without using aircon or wipers or any electrically powered accessories?
In other words does the 400 really mean 300 or 250 in the real world?

the_amazing_raisin

Roger_007 wrote: »

Does anyone know how the range is calculated by the manufacturers of EVs.
We all know that the stated fuel consumption figures for ICEVs are nowhere near what anyone actually gets in the real world. Is it the same with EVs?
If I’m supposed to get, say, 400km on a full charge, does that mean with 2 adults and 2 kids and their assorted bits and pieces, or does it mean with one very small adult driving at a steady 40kph on perfectly surfaced flat roads in perfect weather conditions without using aircon or wipers or any electrically powered accessories?
In other words does the 400 really mean 300 or 250 in the real world?

They use the WLTP test cycle

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Harmonised_Light_Vehicles_Test_Procedure

Basically they put the car on a rolling road and simulate various driving types until the battery is empty. They then calculate the amount of energy consumed and the battery capacity and that gives them the range

The main issue is that the test cycle focuses on a lot of urban style driving with low speeds and gentle acceleration, which leads to very optimistic range estimates. I suppose the testers can argue that we're driving the cars incorrectly

My ID.4 is supposed to get something like 500km WLTP range. I've found from driving around town in warm weather that 450km should be possible, so it isn't massively off target

Driving on a motorway definitely increase consumption, I'd probably get around 350km driving at motorway speeds, less in winter

So the range estimates are pretty optimistic, although not as bad as they used to be. If you want to get a good idea, take the WLTP and take about a third off and that's the worst case

Incidentally, it's the same test cycle used for ICE cars, hence why their fuel consumption figures are often way off as well

the_amazing_raisin

NIMAN wrote: »

As much as I am a fan of EVs, I think the current Renault advert for the Zoe is misleading.

In their advantages listed at the end, they state "no fuel costs".

Are they providing free electricity to charge it?

Technically electricity isn't a fuel cost it's an energy cost, so while it is somewhat misleading, it's unlikely someone would be able to report them for false advertising

silver_sky

NIMAN wrote: »

As much as I am a fan of EVs, I think the current Renault advert for the Zoe is misleading.

In their advantages listed at the end, they state "no fuel costs".

Are they providing free electricity to charge it?

I believe they're giving 10,000km worth based on ecars pricing. Not sure how they're doing it, probably in the form of a discount on the price.

EDIT: It's 10K km per year for 3-years based on eCars SCP pricing. See here - https://www.renault.ie/closer.html

TitianGerm

Popped into Ionity Gorey today on my way home from Gorey and there was a guy with a 2003 BMW plugged in getting a charge.

Would I be right in guessing this was some home project?

silver_sky

TitianGerm wrote: »

Popped into Ionity Gorey today on my way home from Gorey and there was a guy with a 2003 BMW plugged in getting a charge.

Would I be right in guessing this was some home project?

That'd be Damien Maguire

TitianGerm

silver_sky wrote: »

That'd be Damien Maguire

That's the car. He had the boot open there today so must have been monitoring something.

NIMAN

silver_sky wrote: »

I believe they're giving 10,000km worth based on ecars pricing. Not sure how they're doing it, probably in the form of a discount on the price.

EDIT: It's 10K km per year for 3-years based on eCars SCP pricing. See here - https://www.renault.ie/closer.html

My apologies to Renault!:o

silver_sky

TitianGerm wrote: »

That's the car. He had the boot open there today so must have been monitoring something.

Yeah he's been working on getting CCS DC fast charging up and running lately. So probably something related to that.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

How far does the i3 go with a full tank of fuel and fully charged battery?

Applying the usual caveat of heavy boot = crap range...

Full battery on the 94ah REx has got me as low as about 125km and as high as 185km (rare).

Add in 80-120km via REx and you have a starting range of about 200km to 300km depending on the conditions, and whether you drive it like you stole it.

the_amazing_raisin

DrPhilG wrote: »

Applying the usual caveat of heavy boot = crap range...

Full battery on the 94ah REx has got me as low as about 125km and as high as 185km (rare).

Add in 80-120km via REx and you have a starting range of about 200km to 300km depending on the conditions, and whether you drive it like you stole it.

Am I right in saying the Rex has 2 modes, 1 where it'll keep the battery charger and the other where it'll wait for the battery to drain before the Rex kicks in?

If so, then it seems the former would be better for long distance as it keeps the load on the Rex engine fairly constant rather than run it at full power when the battery is drained