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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BluntGuy

The new M20 motorway inbetween Cork and Limerick. I've heard that there are many people that feel it's rather unnecessary considering the traffic volume.

I personally believe if they're going to upgrade the N20 route, they may as well use the safest long-term solution, which of course is a direct motorway link. But what do you all think?

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Bass Reeves

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Traffic is getting busy on n20 This week .not like post covid19 but in another 6 months will show more on this route
Where this so called alliance group get the number that only 3,000 vehicles on this n20 daily.
The amount of heavy vehicles with charlesville and buttevant getting more busy . doesn't take much on twisted road areas to build up traffic .
Roll on M20 . enough talk .get it done.

They said that only 3k were end to end journeys. In a way that defeats there whole argument. There are the equivalent of 10k end to end journeys 70% originate on the N20. That the whole point that this roads needs the solution not one by Timbuktu. As well as get are trying to claim majority of traffic is Croom to Limerick or Mallow to Cork

E36Ross

Anyone gone through Banogue lately?

Gone very narrow with kerbing both sides, and the usual spot where farmers pull in to leave off the traffic across from the shop is also kerbed off.

Mr.CoolGuy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They said that only 3k were end to end journeys. In a way that defeats there whole argument. There are the equivalent of 10k end to end journeys 70% originate on the N20. That the whole point that this roads needs the solution not one by Timbuktu. As well as get are trying to claim majority of traffic is Croom to Limerick or Mallow to Cork

It also ignores that many (including myself and my friends when we were in college in Limerick) would often go from south of Cork City through Mitchelstown and on to Hospital to get to Limerick. I'd be very interested to know how many of those journeys there are daily, as they will almost definitely use the new M20 direct

KELTICKNIGHTT

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They said that only 3k were end to end journeys. In a way that defeats there whole argument. There are the equivalent of 10k end to end journeys 70% originate on the N20. That the whole point that this roads needs the solution not one by Timbuktu. As well as get are trying to claim majority of traffic is Croom to Limerick or Mallow to Cork

I drive from cork city to Shannon airport few times a week.
Yes not all traffic go from cork city to Limerick city.
There's more parts of n20 where you can't pass specially on bad weather day some times even dry days. All it takes is couple slow moving vehicles to build up traffic. Even if you leave charlesville and buttevant out .
My brother drives artic on this route end to end 5 times a week.
He can't wait till it goes motorway.
Anyone who uses the n20 several times a week end to end say the same.
Would it affect local shops on route .yes probably but if you need to get off motorway for fuel or food .then you get off.
I have got delayed by slow moving traffic this week on n20 by 20 plus mins twice. this costs
Not everyone is going to be happy with which ever route is picked but up the n20 is the most direct route between 2 city's.

Red Silurian

E36Ross wrote: »

Anyone gone through Banogue lately?

Gone very narrow with kerbing both sides, and the usual spot where farmers pull in to leave off the traffic across from the shop is also kerbed off.

Went through this morning. Was 3rd in the queue of traffic at 8:15, we moved at 8:40.

Mr.CoolGuy wrote: »

It also ignores that many (including myself and my friends when we were in college in Limerick) would often go from south of Cork City through Mitchelstown and on to Hospital to get to Limerick. I'd be very interested to know how many of those journeys there are daily, as they will almost definitely use the new M20 direct

Did you and your friends do that daily or weekly? Nobody will argue for a road that's used only on Fridays and Sundays

KELTICKNIGHTT

Red Silurian wrote: »

Went through this morning. Was 3rd in the queue of traffic at 8:15, we moved at 8:40.

Did you and your friends do that daily or weekly? Nobody will argue for a road that's used only on Fridays and Sundays

Do you use it daily or use it during week.

Reputable Rog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They said that only 3k were end to end journeys. In a way that defeats there whole argument. There are the equivalent of 10k end to end journeys 70% originate on the N20. That the whole point that this roads needs the solution not one by Timbuktu. As well as get are trying to claim majority of traffic is Croom to Limerick or Mallow to Cork

The question I always ask of these people is how many journeys are completed between Liverpool and Leeds on the M62 or to simplify matters in Cork how many journeys start at Curraheen and finish at Dunkettle on the N40.

Limerick74

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/632470/second-round-of-consultation-for-new-limerick-motorway.html

Preferred option to be announced in September

jackrussel

Limerick74 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/632470/second-round-of-consultation-for-new-limerick-motorway.html

Preferred option to be announced in September

“including what sections will be dual carriageway“ - it’s not going to be all motorway?

Cookiemunster

jackrussel wrote: »

“including what sections will be dual carriageway“ - it’s not going to be all motorway?

That's what they're currently evaluating. I'd be amazed if it's not all motorway, but at the moment nothing is written in stone.

Although, I suppose some of the middle section could be 2+2, but I wouldn't really see the point in doing that.

alias no.9

As long as every junction is properly grade seperated HQDC with no roundabouts on the main line and most importantly of all, as long as it gets built, it doesn't matter if it's not all motorway.

Any non motorway HQDC can be upgraded at a stroke of a pen and the replacement of signs like on the M6, M7 and M8. Even if they are never upgraded, it's the absence of slowing to a stop or an almost stop at junctions and roundabouts that will make the big difference.

KrisW1001

Roundabouts are fine for remote junctions on quiet roads: there's an argument that having a roundabout junction on a 2+2 road every 50-60km reduces driver fatigue without slowing down traffic. The road design guidelines recommend a roundabout when the type of road changes to and from 2+2, for similar reasons.

I don't think it would save much money to have the middle third of N20 (so built as 2+2 when the other two parts require a Type 1 DC ("Motorway"). If M18/M17 is any precedent, the whole route will be Type 1 DC.

Pete_Cavan

KrisW1001 wrote: »

Roundabouts are fine for remote junctions on quiet roads: there's an argument that having a roundabout junction on a 2+2 road every 50-60km reduces driver fatigue without slowing down traffic. The road design guidelines recommend a roundabout when the type of road changes to and from 2+2, for similar reasons.

I don't think it would save much money to have the middle third of N20 (so built as 2+2 when the other two parts require a Type 1 DC ("Motorway"). If M18/M17 is any precedent, the whole route will be Type 1 DC.

If anything, I'd say the M18/17 is more likely to ensure the middle third of N20 is built as 2+2 than motorway. From north of Mallow to south of Charleville will likely only have one junction (Buttevant) anyway so junctions shouldn't be a big consideration.

Isambard

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If anything, I'd say the M18/17 is more likely to ensure the middle third of N20 is built as 2+2 than motorway. From north of Mallow to south of Charleville will likely only have one junction (Buttevant) anyway so junctions shouldn't be a big consideration.

to be honest, that's one junction too many. There really isn't that much cross country traffic accessing the N20 at Buttevant and a junction there will possibly attract more traffic to inadequate West/East roads.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

to be honest, that's one junction too many. There really isn't that much cross country traffic accessing the N20 at Buttevant and a junction there will possibly attract more traffic to inadequate West/East roads.

ABP sent the 2010 M20 back to the drawing board to put in a junction for Buttevant. Had that been avoided the CPO may have gone through and we could have the M20 built by now.

It would be foolish to make the same mistake again.

pajoguy

You would also imagine the junction for Croom will be much further south than the 2010 version as it was positioned for a southern bypass of Adare. Maybe west of the new school link road with a new roundabout on the old N20 although that land south of the Maigue riverbridge belongs to Denis Brosnan.

pajoguy

A rough idea.

cjpm

Lockdown is well and truly over.

I drove the section of the N20 between Cork and Mallow yesterday morning and it was mental busy.

Isambard

another accident this morning at Rathduff I hear.

cjpm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40292099.html

They seem to have forgotten that there’s a freight port in Cork too....

Ridiculous

AugustusMinimus

cjpm wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40292099.html

They seem to have forgotten that there’s a freight port in Cork too....

Ridiculous

This makes no sense. Given a switch from UK to continent you’d expect Cork port to get busier and Rosslare to lose out.

Cookiemunster

Lads, a word of advice. When you see the phrase councillors in North Cork at the beginning of an article, stop reading. The local councillors in both Limerick and Cork are clueless,

That and its the Examiner who for some reason seem to have a serious anti M20 agenda.

AugustusMinimus

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads, a word of advice. When you see the phrase councillors in North Cork at the beginning of an article, stop reading. The local councillors in both Limerick and Cork are clueless,

That and its the Examiner who for some reason seem to have a serious anti M20 agenda.

It’s utterly baffling. De paper is basically a rag. The only thing good is it’s sports coverage and even that is degrading rapidly.

Sam Russell

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s utterly baffling. De paper is basically a rag. The only thing good is it’s sports coverage and even that is degrading rapidly.

De Paper is a Cork local paper. It has more stories about Cork than anything else. I doubt it is read in Dublin at all.

serfboard

cjpm wrote: »

They seem to have forgotten that there’s a freight port in Cork too....

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This makes no sense. Given a switch from UK to continent you’d expect Cork port to get busier and Rosslare to lose out.

Is it not the case though that Cork Port is only containers whereas Rosslare is Ro-Ro (or do I have that wrong)?

Here's the quote that got me:

The Irish Examiner wrote:

business associations in Fermoy and Mitchelstown recently backed the preference for a Waterford-Limerick motorway

Translation: Business associations in Fermoy and Mitchelstown say we're alright Jack and everyone else can feck off.

AugustusMinimus

I honestly cannot understand the self destructive nature of people in this city.

They do as much a possible to inhibit development and then cry when it goes to other cities.

marno21

serfboard wrote: »

Is it not the case though that Cork Port is only containers whereas Rosslare is Ro-Ro (or do I have that wrong)?

Here's the quote that got me:

Translation: Business associations in Fermoy and Mitchelstown say we're alright Jack and everyone else can feck off.

Cork has both ro-ro and container services (and bulk). Rosslare is roro only but there is container ops at Waterford Belview Port.

It’s of little surprise that people in Fermoy and Mitchelstown want the motorway to be routed via their towns. Hardly merits getting reported.

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

Cork has both ro-ro and container services (and bulk). Rosslare is roro only but there is container ops at Waterford Belview Port.

It’s of little surprise that people in Fermoy and Mitchelstown want the motorway to be routed via their towns. Hardly merits getting reported.

they already have the M8 and don't care that we need the M20 more than the interests in Limerick and Waterford etc do.

KrisW1001

Cork isn't a replacement for the UK land-bridge. Calais-Folkstone-Holyhead-Dublin is more or less a straight line. Calais-Rosslare-Dublin is a dog-leg, but at least each part brings you closer to the destination. Change Rosslare to Cork in that journey, and now you've spent an extra four hours at sea for the privilege of driving an extra 80 km to get to your destination. (Leaving aside how slow it can be to get Ringaskiddy to the N40).

I know there's a whole country outside of Dublin, but Dublin and its surrounding counties have the highest number of businesses and people, and that's why they are the destination for most goods imported into the country.

Cork still has potential to grow, but any expansion of Cork port services wouldn't get permission with N28 in the current state it's in. M20 would also be needed in order before you could consider Cork as a port option between the western half of the country and the continent.

Bass Reeves

M20 is probably the most critical piece of infrastructure in the country. It opened up the whole western side of the country. It not just critical for Cork and Limerick but for Kerry, Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo

With it in place you will have Three major cities with a combined population of nearly half a million people and 220k than that within 15-20 minutes of the motorway. Finally you will have another 3-400k people living within 20-50 minutes of it.

The M20 has the possibility to create an economic hub with 3 international Airports adjacent to it, two large ports one of them an exceptionally deep water port.

This area should have no housing pressure like Dublin and should turn Cork to Galway into a sub 100 minute trip bar getting in and out of both cities.

The M28 will provide no access to Kerry add 10-15 minutes on to the journey. Do nothing for 7-8k commuter journeys existing on the M20 or the natural business hubs that exist along this route already. Provide no additional development potential like Charlesville and Mallow have.

Finally because trucks are limited to 55MPH they do not necessarily need a motorway or even dual carriageway. Good quality lane along the M28 would be adequate to serve Rosslare. It quite possible that the new road to Foynes will develop business at that port and pull tonnage from Rosslare