Commission proposal for a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens
The ultimate goal of a vaccination passport would be to ensure that children who move between countries with different immunisation schedules do not miss out on crucial vaccinations. A similar scheme is already in place for pets and has helped boost vaccination rates, according to the European Commission.
hmmm wrote: » No more foreign trips for anti-vaxers, I could live with that in these extraordinary times.
trixi001 wrote: » I live in the North, approved under emergency use here, and in the EU, the EMA have approved it under CMA which is subject to far less scrutiny than normal EMA approvals as per their own information.
trixi001 wrote: » And AZ guidelines updated re: blodclots etc, many more issues may still come to light too, its not an unreasonable position to not want to take a vaccine which is still new to the market and still has unknown side effects especially if COVID doesn't pose much risk to you (or others around you - most people have enough common sense to know not to get too close to vulnerable people anyway if they are sick..)
trixi001 wrote: » Most countries are are already opening up without a 2 tier system, some have chosen a 2 tier system, but i doubt most will..and i am sure it will be legally challenged in countries that do go down a 2 tier system
trixi001 wrote: » What do you not understand, making it so that someone can't go out for a meal, or go the cinema etc, or even go to work..means not taking the vaccine isn't really a viable choice for most people - it is essentially making it mandatory... People shouldn't have to live with such extreme draconian consequences of not taking a vaccine. Such extreme consequences mean it is not a choice..
trixi001 wrote: » Ireland has the most stringent and longest lockdown in Europe, so no, most other countries are not just as locked down as Ireland, and the HSE is also extremely inefficient and costs more per person, than far better health systems around the world.. Why is it - there is alternatives to lockdowns, eg:testing... Lockdowns should be a last resort due to collateral damage, not the default position.. Also we were open a lot more last summer without the vaccines..no reason we can't open up the same now and soon... Its seems a crazy position that this summer might be even more restrictive than last year, despite the fact we now know much more about COVID, how to treat it, how to prevent it, etc, and that over 1m vaccines have now been used...
trixi001 wrote: » Cocooning is not, and never has been, mandatory, so if someone high risk who can't take the vaccine, want to go out for a meal, they should be able to too. I really sincerely hope that no domestic passport or certification is used in Ireland or the UK, but if there really has to be one, people who cannot have the vaccine, or those who have a condition making it more riskier than the average person, must be given the passport as well... I have no issue with the vaccines and am happy people are choosing to do what is right for them, but the important word in all this has to be choice, Ireland (North or South) has never restricted access to normal functions of society on the basis of someones medical history..we have a long history of vaccines, and most people here are not anti-vax, we don't restrict peoples access to a bar if they haven't gotten a Tetanus jab, we don't stop children going to school if they haven't got the MMR - it shouldn't even be up for discussion that we are going to stop people doing certain activities in their own country on the basis of what vaccinations they have or haven't got.. I actually cannot believe there are people supporting a 2 tier society
astrofool wrote: » The guidelines around the use of AZ will be updated for this, the chances of it happening are small.
astrofool wrote: » The remaining ardent anti-vaxxers are idiots, and I can confidently say that the rest of society, whether vaccinated or not, are more intelligent than they are (but I would not say they are "better" people, because we are all human).
Mr. Karate wrote: » If people don't get vaccinated its because the Govt and Health services [because this is going on in other Countries besides Ireland] are constantly talking about needing lockdowns, masks and social distancing for years to come if not permanently. What's the point of getting it then? The whole praying for the Caste system to return under the guise of Health Care shows what a religion this has turned into for some people. The irony is that the Covidologists that follow the dogma of Holohan are the ones who mock Christians and other religious people for following the dogma of their Bibles, Qurans, Torahs,etc.
Deleted User wrote: » The issue is that had you expressed ANY safety concern about ANY of these vaccines a few weeks ago, none of which have a long-term safety profile to speak of, you’d have been shouted down as an idiot anti-vaxxer and people directing you to “science” as though they were speaking about some all-powerful deity rather than a process that is literally dependent on flaw-finding to advance. And then when it turns out the vaccine has a small chance of killing people with blood clots, it’s “oh, well the guidelines will change”. Well, sure they will. But that doesn’t change the fact that the people who expressed concerns were completely and demonstrably correct to have done so, and the people who declared with certainty that the vaccines were safe were wrong.
Deleted User wrote: » And do people seriously think all these countries are going to spend billions on the passports to introduce them temporarily for a few months?
astrofool wrote: » I did, please check my posting history, I supported the pause while data was gathered, now that the data is gathered, the guidelines can be updated. I also supported not giving it to over 70's, again, while the data was gathered. What I didn't say was over exaggerate the chances as everybody seems to be doing at the moment (people are really really bad at calculating risk in general).
astrofool wrote: » There is no logical step between these two, no slippery slope, no imaginary line to be drawn, the first is a measure during a pandemic, the second is a 1984 fevre dream: “We have to have vaccine passports since they will stop the spread and therefore stop the healthcare system from becoming overwhelmed” is really not a very big logical leap from “we have to monitor people’s weight and exclude people who are overweight from certain activities to encourage them to be healthier so that heart disease admissions free up our health service and it won’t get overwhelmed every winter” for example.
Deleted User wrote: » I can respect that you feel that way. I believe you are dead wrong, but I can understand where you’re coming from.
titan18 wrote: » https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html Saying shops and hairdressers to reopen for fully vaccinated people (so anyone with AZ can feck off basically for another few months). You'd wonder does anyone in government know places have fixed costs if they reopen so why would any place reopen for a tiny customer base compared to usual.
ExMachina1000 wrote: » Joe Biden is against vaccine passports as people's right to privacy should not be infringed. The "right to privacy " is never mentioned here. Just do as you are told
Deleted User wrote: » But there's opposition in the US. That's the difference. Opposition means pushback. There is a political party for half the US population and a political party for the other half. There's even a third political party, i.e. the Libertarian Party. In Ireland the political parties are identical. And the newspapers and RTÉ are identical. I often wonder why they're all needed when they just say the same thing.
is_that_so wrote: » Without dragging this into CT territory, this concept is an EU level measure to get travel and tourism up and running this summer. Their use at national level has not been defined and for now seems to be little more than a clumsy nudge for people to get vaccinated to avoid FOMO.
rusty cole wrote: » well it's not going down well in France nor is the Vaccine. uptake is the worse in Europe. Why?
Deleted User wrote: » There's nothing CT about it. It's a fact that there's no opposition in Ireland, be it in politics or in the media. That's why Ireland has been shut for the best part of a year, while other countries haven't. In other countries there is pressure from the media and in politics. And it's use domestically will begin in May when shops and hairdressers will open to those who are vaccinated only: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html
Irish Aris wrote: » I was thinking the same this morning. Would a shop make a profit with very limited clientele allowed? It doesn't make much sense. If the government actually goes for this, does this mean that they can stop financially supporting businesses and employees (I mean the grants, PUP etc.)?
lan wrote: » We’re in a pandemic. The only realistic way we get out and back to normality is through herd immunity. That can only happen if enough people either catch COVID, or get vaccinated. I’d hope we can all agree that natural herd immunity would be a disaster. About 1% of people who catch COVID die from it, many more need hospitalisation and ICU care. Even then, approximately 10% of COVID survivors suffer from some longer term health effects (extreme fatigue, aches, brain fog, shortness of breathe) that we don’t fully understand or have effective treatments for yet. That’s a horrible enough prospect to willing inflict on a population, but it’s also assuming we can provide adequate healthcare care for people when they catch it. The only reason our health system hasn’t been overwhelmed is due to lockdowns preventing the spread of the disease. The death rate would be far higher with uncontrolled transmission due to a lack of treatment capacity. Look at our numbers at Christmas, our cases spiked enormously as people visited their families, a x10 increase in the two weeks after, and despite going into an immediate level 5 lockdown for 4 months, we still have managed to fully get over that ‘wave’. This virus is incredibly contagious when let spread without restrictions. So that only leaves lockdowns until herd immunity through vaccination. The vaccine rollout is slow. Much slower than we’d all like. Assuming a high uptake, we will eventually reach herd immunity, but it’s slow going. The question is, when you have 10%, or 20%, or 30% or 50% of the country vaccinated, does it make sense to keep them locked up when they could be safely allowed to go about their business? Probably not. Would that be unfair on the rest of the unvaccinated people? Yes. But is it unfair on the vaccinated people to keep them locked up for no reason other than out of solidarity? Also yes. There are no perfect answers here, clearly. The best we can hope for is the vaccine supply increases and we get to herd immunity sooner, negating the need for vaccine passports. In the absence of that, as unfair as it seems, I think allowing vaccinated people to safely congregate and work etc makes more sense, but it’s definitely an imperfect system. All of this would only be necessary until herd immunity is achieved. How we measure that exactly is an open debate, but it’ll probably be when somewhere between 75 - 95% of people are immune. They can (and should) start incrementally lifting restrictions for everyone, vaccinated or not, before then, but only as long as case numbers don’t start increasing out of control.
bucketybuck wrote: » To me its two very simple questions. A) It's April 2021, how long is it going to take until a vaccine is available for everybody in the country who wants one? And , how long will it take to devise and implement a vaccine passport system? If B takes longer than A then it is a redundant measure, by the time it works it will already be unnecessary. Simple as that, unless there are ulterior reasons for wanting the covid passports...
Russman wrote: » I think as someone mentioned upthread, its really about travel and getting EU tourism going again. Yeah, you'll probably need it to go into stadiums and gigs if they happen this year, but realistically we're not going to go the Israel route of passports to get into pubs etc.
Deleted User wrote: » And it's use domestically will begin in May when shops and hairdressers will open to those who are vaccinated only: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html
[Deleted User] wrote: » Then why are shops and hairdressers set to open to vaccinated people only next month: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html
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