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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Beasty

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Mod Warnings

1. Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

2. Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please. You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it

3. Stick to the topic, which is not moderation or other users. Remain civil. Report, don't react, to posts or posters who you think are an issue. This is unfortunately a polarised topic for some (not all). There is some middle ground though and please do not think the worse of posters simply because you have opposing views

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lulublue22

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think the unions shouls prioritise the SNA,s in special school . They would get far more support from the public if they did
I cannot see the public supporting a 28 year old teacher getting a vaccine ahead of his / her parents .

Forsa is the union for SNAs and they are very vocal and good at supporting them. They were instrumental in Jan / Feb. Public are not hearing much now as the annual congresses are on but they will be working hard on behalf of their members.

If special schools are to be prioritised it should be all staff as all are involved in care needs.

selectamatic

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The special needs schools SNA’s should be vaccinated with healthcare workers in my opinion .
The unions should concentrate on that sector and be aware that the risk is much higher there .

I think all SNAs should have been.

I've taught SEN kids in mainstream before that had the same needs as kids who would be recommended to attend a special school or ASD unit.

There's many SNAs in mainstream around the country who have to assist in cleaning and clothes changing regularly.

iamwhoiam

selectamatic wrote: »

I think all SNAs should have been.

I've taught SEN kids in mainstream before that had the same needs as kids who would be recommended to attend a special school or ASD unit.

There's many SNAs in mainstream around the country who have to assist in cleaning and clothes changing regularly.

Yes thats true . In my opinion any SNA working with those children should have been vaccinated with the healthcare workers and long before HSE admin working from home . The unfairness in that is glaringly obvious

grind gremlin

selectamatic wrote: »

I think all SNAs should have been.

I've taught SEN kids in mainstream before that had the same needs as kids who would be recommended to attend a special school or ASD unit.

There's many SNAs in mainstream around the country who have to assist in cleaning and clothes changing regularly.

Also, SNAs in mainstream schools are frequently shared between a number of students in different classes. They could potentially have a huge number of close contacts.

For anyone that thinks classrooms are safe, try helping a primary school child with their homework from a distance of 2 meters and you will see it is impossible to help children to learn effectively while remaining a safe distance from them.

[Deleted User]

lulublue22 wrote: »

Forsa is the union for SNAs and they are very vocal and good at supporting them. They were instrumental in Jan / Feb. Public are not hearing much now as the annual congresses are on but they will be working hard on behalf of their members.

If special schools are to be prioritised it should be all staff as all are involved in care needs.

Were FORSA one of the 3 unions that got together yesterday?

coleen

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes thats true . In my opinion any SNA working with those children should have been vaccinated with the healthcare workers and long before HSE admin working from home . The unfairness in that is glaringly obvious

There is a lot of unfairness and hard to decide who should be prioritised.
I work in a primary school but in a pre-school and I see no mention of any Early years staff who have to give a lot of help to small children toileting and lunches and comforting during the day. We will be at the end of the list but yet we went back way before any teachers, we have to supply our own ppe and we earn alot less money.
So as I say lots of unfairness around !

cheezums

History Queen wrote: »

Tomás Ryan is saying that NIAC aren't following the science. Luke O'Neil says teachers are 1.9 times morelikely to contract covid or 3 times more likely if working in a special school. A report from the UK says teachers have the highest incidence of long covid after health care workers. The WHO have called for frontline workers including teachers to be prioritised.

It isn't about science here, it's about speed of delivery and the government have calculated that it will be faster not to prioritise groups once they finish the last priority group of those living/working in crowded settings such as Travellers, Roma etc and to instead vaccinate everyone else by age.they feel this will get more of our population vaccinated faster.

my understanding is age is the biggest risk factor with covid, makes sense to prioritize based on that. frontline healthcare workers are a special case obviously.

Random sample

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I really think that teachers that oppose what these unions are doing should collectively voice their opposition. You really need to distance yourself from this.

Perhaps throw a few quid each into a fund and pay for a full page advertisement in all the National newspapers stating that this is NOT IN YOUR NAME.

Or maybe, when it comes to the vote next September... just vote no?

lulublue22

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Were FORSA one of the 3 unions that got together yesterday?

I think you know the answer to that question already though I don’t know nor care really what point you are trying to make. I answered a poster in good faith re SNAs and representation.

iamwhoiam

coleen wrote: »

There is a lot of unfairness and hard to decide who should be prioritised.
I work in a primary school but in a pre-school and I see no mention of any Early years staff who have to give a lot of help to small children toileting and lunches and comforting during the day. We will be at the end of the list but yet we went back way before any teachers, we have to supply our own ppe and we earn alot less money.
So as I say lots of unfairness around !

Absolutely agree . Boots perfume counter staff being vaccinated when we all know they will never be on the pharmacy counter
HSE admin before the vulnerable , so many accounts of unfairness in the last while .

shtpEdthePlum

This one is being kept very quiet.

I posted about it in the main thread but it got lost or people didn't care.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0407/1208370-sna-vaccines/

A load of education staff in the government ministers constituencies were contacted by the HSE and received their jab last week.

This is getting beyond a joke. I don't begrudge those people a vaccine for one minute but maybe if the cunts in charge were more interested in actually getting it rolled out than hand picking which menial labourer they deem worthy of selection we would be getting somewhere.

Watch now though as more people are pitted against each other because of this instead of actually blaming those responsible.

[Deleted User]

Random sample wrote: »

Or maybe, when it comes to the vote next September... just vote no?

They need to do it now as people are angry about this. Damage limitation and all that.

[Deleted User]

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think you know the answer to that question already though I don’t know nor care really what point you are trying to make. I answered a poster in good faith re SNAs and representation.

My point is their justified voice has now been drowned out by the selfishness of the other 3 unions and the members that pay them dues.

seamus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I really think that teachers that oppose what these unions are doing should collectively voice their opposition. You really need to distance yourself from this.

Perhaps throw a few quid each into a fund and pay for a full page advertisement in all the National newspapers stating that this is NOT IN YOUR NAME.

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

[Deleted User]

Work place bullying at its finest, eh?

rob316

Unions - We will follow the public health advice

Public Health - we are going to vaccinate on age instead of profession

Unions - Strike!

Self serving as ever.

lulublue22

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

My point is their justified voice has now been drowned out by the selfishness of the other 3 unions and the members that pay them dues.

I’d disagree with that - Forsa are very good at representing their members and will be vocal when they feel the time is right. Interesting that you feel SNAs have a justified voice- I presume you feel that teachers in special schools also have a justified voice - given that any special school I’ve worked in all staff including teachers have been involved in care needs.

lulublue22

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

I have never experienced that in any school I’ve taught in.

SusanC10

How far along with we be realistically with the Vaccine Rollout before Schools re-open for the next Academic Year late-August / early- September?

I know, crystal ball etc but best educated guess.

VinLieger

SusanC10 wrote: »

How far along with we be realistically with the Vaccine Rollout before Schools re-open for the next Academic Year late-August / early- September?

I know, crystal ball etc but best educated guess.

Current estimates are 80% of the adult population with at least one dose by the end of June so the teachers will be well Vaccinated by September if that holds true.

[Deleted User]

Outside of special education sector, this proposed industrial action is the most pointless sabre rattling unions have engaged in. Be prioritised ahead of other under 65s and have full immunity kicking in in July, or wait for age group and have it kick in in August and September.

Edit: Actually, just realised it’s even more pointless, get prioritised and receive AZ vaccine with second dose 3 months out, while the general population will be far more likely to receive Pfizer with only a four weeks wait for dose 2, or j&j which is single shot. Go along with unions and the average teacher is likely to have to wait longer to be fully immunised

rob316

The aim of the game is keeping hospitalizations and ICU figures down so our health service doesn't collapse and jeopardize non-Covid care. You do that by vaccinating by age.

Unions need to accept that like every other sector has.

[Deleted User]

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’d disagree with that - Forsa are very good at representing their members and will be vocal when they feel the time is right. Interesting that you feel SNAs have a justified voice- I presume you feel that teachers in special schools also have a justified voice - given that any special school I’ve worked in all staff including teachers have been involved in care needs.

Yep. All staff working in a special school should have been classified alongside other HCWs for the purpose of the vaccination rollout.

thebronze14

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'd be mortified if I was a teacher paying union subs to get this nonsense. They have no public support for this. Shameful.

Myself and a lot of fellow teachers don't support it! Could never picture being a scab but nearly would here. It's ridiculous IMO. Strike threats should be last resort for a more serious issue than this.

wirelessdude01

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

Ohh the tall tales.

Newbie20

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

blanch152

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

This is common enough in schools and the wider public sector. One of the benefits of union membership is the cheap income continuance plans whereby if you get seriously ill, they will pay out on top of the sick pay your employer gives you. Many people run in fear of the union as a result.

The teacher unions use this to intimidate principals and deputy principals who are members of the union and fear being left unprotected.

hesaidshesaid

All this talk making the unions out to be the equivalent of mafia dons is frankly hilarious.

I can safely say that in over 20 years of teaching at both secondary and primary level, I have never encountered this intimidation from unions towards myself or anyone else.

99% of the time, teachers just get on with their day to day lives and don’t give the unions a second thought. People who think otherwise need to get a grip.

PeterPan92

At this point the unions are doing their job. They are fighting for what was promised and assured back in February and was a central crux in getting schools open. Whether or not their members vote on industrial action is a separate matter. The unions are fighting for an unfulfilled promise and that is what I'm paying them for. I don't know if I'll vote for or against yet, but I'm glad they are doing something considering I pay them every 2 weeks.
For everyone going on about the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers, etc., these were also all promised priority vaccinations initially. However, the INTO, ASTI and TUI are hardly going to fight for Mary working in Tesco when Mary doesn't pay them. They are going to fight for the teachers who do pay them (and pay them a pretty penny, I might add!). The unions for the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers etc. need to do better by their members also.
The unions are not demanding immediate vaccination either. They are looking for teachers to be moved from group 10 to group 9. Group 9 is for those working in crowded settings. I have 27 kids in my class, and have one of the smaller classes in the school. Some of the classes have 30+ children. Would you say these classrooms are not a crowded setting?

jusvi2001

No wonder why teachers are loosing public support

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html