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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Beasty

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Mod Warnings

1. Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

2. Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please. You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it

3. Stick to the topic, which is not moderation or other users. Remain civil. Report, don't react, to posts or posters who you think are an issue. This is unfortunately a polarised topic for some (not all). There is some middle ground though and please do not think the worse of posters simply because you have opposing views

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noplacehere

Honestly the motion wasn’t ideal for second level in particular. We cannot get vaccinated before the holidays realistically as we were not and are not looking to be prioritised over the most at risk cohorts.

However it would make sense to twin track teachers to get pfizer or moderna or J&J. I’m cohort 4 and just got AstraZeneca. I don’t get my second dose until the end of June and am not considered vaccinated until the second week of July. If teachers end up getting AstraZeneca in a June they won’t actually be considered vaccinated even by the return to school.

I think this would have been practical and should have been achievable.

On the ‘what about’ no teacher is saying that guards, supermarket workers, creche workers, SNAs etc shouldn’t be prioritised. But this is a teaching union. For teachers. I have no idea wtf everyone is going on ‘what about’ rants for all over social media. Get onto your union and get your motions together ffs

Hellrazer

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Cohort 9 is for 64 years and younger and 16-64 working in crowded settings "in parrallel" so basically the cohort for everyone outside of HCW,Elderly,Underlying conditions - the same cohort everyone else is in - Im ok with that.

They can have their cohort 9.

Brendan Bendar

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I made a conscious decision to leave the teaching profession just as the pandemic started.

It was partly because i wanted a change of career, i had done it straight out of college and wanted to try new things. A big opportunity came up so i jumped at the chance.

Mostly it was because a huge majority of people in this country (including some among my friends and family) absolutely shat all over the profession. It's hard to do a demanding job if people personally resent you because of it.

Anyway good luck to the poor children currently growing up with fewer and fewer capable, experienced educators. This is genuinely how dictators prevail, they turn the public against the education system, defund it as a populist maneuver and the resulting population is left easy to manipulate.

You have some good points there but in my opinion you seem to show your true colors with your last paragraph which indicates to me anyway a fairly large chip on your shoulder.

I mean talking about “dictators” “public against the education system” and “ population left easy to manipulate”

A lot of very weird thinking and attitude going on there, one would surmise.

Not suited for teaching would seem to be fairly obvious.

Good luck in your new career

shtpEdthePlum

I made a conscious decision to leave the teaching profession just as the pandemic started.

It was partly because i wanted a change of career, i had done it straight out of college and wanted to try new things. A big opportunity came up so i jumped at the chance.

Mostly it was because a huge majority of people in this country (including some among my friends and family) absolutely shat all over the profession. It's hard to do a demanding job if people personally resent you because of it.

Anyway good luck to the poor children currently growing up with fewer and fewer capable, experienced educators. This is genuinely how dictators prevail, they turn the public against the education system, defund it as a populist maneuver and the resulting population is left easy to manipulate.

CruelSummer

jusvi2001 wrote: »

No wonder why teachers are loosing public support

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html

I’m sick to the teeth of the teacher bashing that has gone during this pandemic. Most teachers have worked really hard to support children remotely and while at school in very difficult circumstances. They’ve put themselves on the line to help keep the show on the road with useless facilities that are overcrowded and are lacking in resources. A litany of ever growing social problems walk into the classrooms each day, coupled with many children highly anxious by the Covid situation. They’re expected to ‘sort it out’ - whatever that means.
Meanwhile they’re continually bashed and ridiculed online while they’re teaching & cannot respond as they’re juggling everything and shown zero respect by some.

I don’t care where I am in the vaccine roll out, I think age is fair. However the ridicule of the public towards teachers asking for vaccination prioritisation, something that has been done in many western countries including the US really bugs me.

Between how far behind the children now are educationally, socially & emotionally and the continuing disrespect shown towards teachers in the media, I expect some more militant views to emerge in a push back, with many teachers with no strong views on many of these issues caught in the crossfire trying to do their jobs. And they won’t care re public support when said public continually disrespects them - it’ll help their cause.

Jinglejangle69

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Sorry is group 9 still a thing?

Now I'm confused.

PeterPan92

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Meat factories along with bakeries, actually any food productuin factories are the same, they work. In crowded settings and prodiheyhe food you eat to live.

What's more essential?

Noone is calling for them to be vaccinated before more vulnerable people because its common sense they shouldn't.

Did you read what I said? The unions don't want teachers to be vaccinated before vulnerable people. They want us moved to group 9, for crowded settings. That's it.

Jinglejangle69

PeterPan92 wrote: »

At this point the unions are doing their job. They are fighting for what was promised and assured back in February and was a central crux in getting schools open. Whether or not their members vote on industrial action is a separate matter. The unions are fighting for an unfulfilled promise and that is what I'm paying them for. I don't know if I'll vote for or against yet, but I'm glad they are doing something considering I pay them every 2 weeks.
For everyone going on about the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers, etc., these were also all promised priority vaccinations initially. However, the INTO, ASTI and TUI are hardly going to fight for Mary working in Tesco when Mary doesn't pay them. They are going to fight for the teachers who do pay them (and pay them a pretty penny, I might add!). The unions for the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers etc. need to do better by their members also.
The unions are not demanding immediate vaccination either. They are looking for teachers to be moved from group 10 to group 9. Group 9 is for those working in crowded settings. I have 27 kids in my class, and have one of the smaller classes in the school. Some of the classes have 30+ children. Would you say these classrooms are not a crowded setting?

Meat factories along with bakeries, actually any food production factories are the same, they work in crowded settings and produce the food you eat to live.

What's more essential?

Noone is calling for them to be vaccinated before more vulnerable people because its common sense they shouldn't.

jusvi2001

No wonder why teachers are loosing public support

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/independentie-poll-results-revealed-majority-supportvaccine-prioritisation-for-gardai-but-not-teachers-40285891.html

PeterPan92

At this point the unions are doing their job. They are fighting for what was promised and assured back in February and was a central crux in getting schools open. Whether or not their members vote on industrial action is a separate matter. The unions are fighting for an unfulfilled promise and that is what I'm paying them for. I don't know if I'll vote for or against yet, but I'm glad they are doing something considering I pay them every 2 weeks.
For everyone going on about the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers, etc., these were also all promised priority vaccinations initially. However, the INTO, ASTI and TUI are hardly going to fight for Mary working in Tesco when Mary doesn't pay them. They are going to fight for the teachers who do pay them (and pay them a pretty penny, I might add!). The unions for the gardaí, bus drivers, retail workers etc. need to do better by their members also.
The unions are not demanding immediate vaccination either. They are looking for teachers to be moved from group 10 to group 9. Group 9 is for those working in crowded settings. I have 27 kids in my class, and have one of the smaller classes in the school. Some of the classes have 30+ children. Would you say these classrooms are not a crowded setting?

hesaidshesaid

All this talk making the unions out to be the equivalent of mafia dons is frankly hilarious.

I can safely say that in over 20 years of teaching at both secondary and primary level, I have never encountered this intimidation from unions towards myself or anyone else.

99% of the time, teachers just get on with their day to day lives and don’t give the unions a second thought. People who think otherwise need to get a grip.

blanch152

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

This is common enough in schools and the wider public sector. One of the benefits of union membership is the cheap income continuance plans whereby if you get seriously ill, they will pay out on top of the sick pay your employer gives you. Many people run in fear of the union as a result.

The teacher unions use this to intimidate principals and deputy principals who are members of the union and fear being left unprotected.

Newbie20

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

wirelessdude01

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

Ohh the tall tales.

thebronze14

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'd be mortified if I was a teacher paying union subs to get this nonsense. They have no public support for this. Shameful.

Myself and a lot of fellow teachers don't support it! Could never picture being a scab but nearly would here. It's ridiculous IMO. Strike threats should be last resort for a more serious issue than this.

[Deleted User]

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’d disagree with that - Forsa are very good at representing their members and will be vocal when they feel the time is right. Interesting that you feel SNAs have a justified voice- I presume you feel that teachers in special schools also have a justified voice - given that any special school I’ve worked in all staff including teachers have been involved in care needs.

Yep. All staff working in a special school should have been classified alongside other HCWs for the purpose of the vaccination rollout.

rob316

The aim of the game is keeping hospitalizations and ICU figures down so our health service doesn't collapse and jeopardize non-Covid care. You do that by vaccinating by age.

Unions need to accept that like every other sector has.

[Deleted User]

Outside of special education sector, this proposed industrial action is the most pointless sabre rattling unions have engaged in. Be prioritised ahead of other under 65s and have full immunity kicking in in July, or wait for age group and have it kick in in August and September.

Edit: Actually, just realised it’s even more pointless, get prioritised and receive AZ vaccine with second dose 3 months out, while the general population will be far more likely to receive Pfizer with only a four weeks wait for dose 2, or j&j which is single shot. Go along with unions and the average teacher is likely to have to wait longer to be fully immunised

VinLieger

SusanC10 wrote: »

How far along with we be realistically with the Vaccine Rollout before Schools re-open for the next Academic Year late-August / early- September?

I know, crystal ball etc but best educated guess.

Current estimates are 80% of the adult population with at least one dose by the end of June so the teachers will be well Vaccinated by September if that holds true.

SusanC10

How far along with we be realistically with the Vaccine Rollout before Schools re-open for the next Academic Year late-August / early- September?

I know, crystal ball etc but best educated guess.

lulublue22

seamus wrote: »

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

I have never experienced that in any school I’ve taught in.

lulublue22

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

My point is their justified voice has now been drowned out by the selfishness of the other 3 unions and the members that pay them dues.

I’d disagree with that - Forsa are very good at representing their members and will be vocal when they feel the time is right. Interesting that you feel SNAs have a justified voice- I presume you feel that teachers in special schools also have a justified voice - given that any special school I’ve worked in all staff including teachers have been involved in care needs.

rob316

Unions - We will follow the public health advice

Public Health - we are going to vaccinate on age instead of profession

Unions - Strike!

Self serving as ever.

[Deleted User]

Work place bullying at its finest, eh?

seamus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I really think that teachers that oppose what these unions are doing should collectively voice their opposition. You really need to distance yourself from this.

Perhaps throw a few quid each into a fund and pay for a full page advertisement in all the National newspapers stating that this is NOT IN YOUR NAME.

I agree, but I have sympathy with teachers on this. Unions are often a bit of a racket, teachers' unions in particular. Speak out against the union, actively display disapproval of what they're doing, and you will find yourself blackballed when the time comes to apply for a new position or asked to be moved to a new class. Be vocal enough and you'll also find yourself eating alone at lunch, being refused favours for time off and being assigned yard duty during the coldest and wettest days.

All of the public sector unions have a certain gangster feel to them, where you pay homage to the union if you want to retain any sense of job satisfaction in your life.

So I wouldn't blame any teachers for being cautious about actively disagreeing with the union.

[Deleted User]

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think you know the answer to that question already though I don’t know nor care really what point you are trying to make. I answered a poster in good faith re SNAs and representation.

My point is their justified voice has now been drowned out by the selfishness of the other 3 unions and the members that pay them dues.

[Deleted User]

Random sample wrote: »

Or maybe, when it comes to the vote next September... just vote no?

They need to do it now as people are angry about this. Damage limitation and all that.

shtpEdthePlum

This one is being kept very quiet.

I posted about it in the main thread but it got lost or people didn't care.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0407/1208370-sna-vaccines/

A load of education staff in the government ministers constituencies were contacted by the HSE and received their jab last week.

This is getting beyond a joke. I don't begrudge those people a vaccine for one minute but maybe if the cunts in charge were more interested in actually getting it rolled out than hand picking which menial labourer they deem worthy of selection we would be getting somewhere.

Watch now though as more people are pitted against each other because of this instead of actually blaming those responsible.

iamwhoiam

coleen wrote: »

There is a lot of unfairness and hard to decide who should be prioritised.
I work in a primary school but in a pre-school and I see no mention of any Early years staff who have to give a lot of help to small children toileting and lunches and comforting during the day. We will be at the end of the list but yet we went back way before any teachers, we have to supply our own ppe and we earn alot less money.
So as I say lots of unfairness around !

Absolutely agree . Boots perfume counter staff being vaccinated when we all know they will never be on the pharmacy counter
HSE admin before the vulnerable , so many accounts of unfairness in the last while .

lulublue22

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Were FORSA one of the 3 unions that got together yesterday?

I think you know the answer to that question already though I don’t know nor care really what point you are trying to make. I answered a poster in good faith re SNAs and representation.