EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

prunudo · 06-04-2021 8:59am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

So you're happy with the idea of pregnant women never being allowed to holiday again?

is_that_so · 06-04-2021 9:00am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Up to 30% may not have such passports and just what are we going to do about the kids? Could be lots of unintended consequences to changing a voluntary vaccination programme into a mandatory one. That's one extra thing to bring with you when you do the weekly shop.

FileNotFound · 06-04-2021 9:01am

Seems like a nice story to get a few people riled up, even if it were real, the odds of an effective system in place before majority vaccination is hard to see.

Just a thought but would this allow a restaurant for example to have an area with less social distancing (for use with vaccinated people) while having greater space in the remaining parts?

Either way, won't be ready before its redundant.

wadacrack · 06-04-2021 9:02am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Of course it's a choice

But with every choice theres an upside and downside.

If you choose not to do something for the benefit of the wider society, and to put more vulnerable people at risk, there needs to be a downside to that choice.

The more vulnerable will be vaccinated and all evidence suggests that they will be protected from serious illness.

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:02am

prunudo wrote: »

So you're happy with the idea of pregnant women never being allowed to holiday again?

Never??

FileNotFound · 06-04-2021 9:03am

prunudo wrote: »

So you're happy with the idea of pregnant women never being allowed to holiday again?

Sure they won't be pregnant for ever haha

Happydays2020 · 06-04-2021 9:03am

FlubberJones wrote: »

So that means the over 70s will be able to travel quicker and enjoy a "more active life" than the younger people awaiting the vaccine... brilliant.

Agree. It is a brilliant idea.

faceman · 06-04-2021 9:03am

prunudo wrote: »

So you're happy with the idea of pregnant women never being allowed to holiday again?

Thats not going to happen. Sheesh

People are so dumb

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:04am

wadacrack wrote: »

The more vulnerable will be vaccinated and all evidence suggests that they will be protected from serious illness.

Not everyone can be vaccinated

Snotty · 06-04-2021 9:05am

Feel like you missed the opportunity to use holocaust in that title too

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:05am

Another thread infected by the conspiracy theory nuts I see. Can't just debate the issue for what it actually is with the "oh my god, thin end of the wedge" bullish!t

drunkmonkey · 06-04-2021 9:06am

faceman wrote: »

Great news, finally recognition for the vaccines doing their job.

The seem to be even for the hesitant or people who can't get them.
'Hopes of achieving herd immunity from COVID-19 received a major boost Monday, after a new Israeli study showed that the inoculated are protecting those who can’t or won’t get vaccinated." https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

I'm not so sure following Israel's lead on vaccine certs will work here though, Leo has always said he expects thing to open up when the at risk are vaccinated, he's saying the same thing now just added in extra freedoms, I'm going to assume he's talking about giving the elderly a break quicker.

prunudo · 06-04-2021 9:06am

FileNotFound wrote: »

Sure they won't be pregnant for ever haha

Haha, fair point. I just find they throw out these ideas with no real thought for the unintended consequences, time line or how the they can be implemented in the real world. Once you start allowing exemptions they are rendered useless anyway.

is_that_so · 06-04-2021 9:08am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The seem to be even for the hesitant or people who can't get them.
'Hopes of achieving herd immunity from COVID-19 received a major boost Monday, after a new Israeli study showed that the inoculated are protecting those who can’t or won’t get vaccinated." https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

I'm not so sure following Israel's lead on vaccine certs will work here though, Leo has always said he expects thing to open up when the at risk are vaccinated, he's saying the same thing now just added in extra freedoms, I'm going to assume he's talking about giving the elderly a break quicker.

Isn't this really the two vaccinated people being able to meet indoors?

timmyntc · 06-04-2021 9:09am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Another thread infected by the conspiracy theory nuts I see. Can't just debate the issue for what it actually is with the "oh my god, thin end of the wedge" bullish!t

Half of the posts in this thread are yours - sounds like conspiracy theory nuts live rent free in your head.

Anyways, its not a good look for personal freedoms in this country when you will be excluded from society based on vaccination status.
If they bring this in before vaccination roll out is complete - discriminatory against younger people who wont have gotten a chance to get vaccinated.
If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

Del2005 · 06-04-2021 9:10am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

What about the vulnerable people who can't get a vaccine, do they have to stay locked up forever?

Herd immunity is still needed even if people are vaccinated, so letting the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated out while a large percentage isn't could see another surge affecting the people we thought were protected.

Absolute Zero · 06-04-2021 9:10am

Scary to see some of the replies here. This place is more socialist with every passing year. People blindly trusting politicians like Varadkar.

I guess thats what a year of lockdown by the Government will do to people. People are seriously happy that the politicians are trying to bring in discriminatory practices against our own population?

Make them (the populace) willing to accept any incentive to regain their freedoms (They had no right to take in the first place, we are a submissive country after all). Lets hope these vaccinations have no future repercussions.

whisky_galore · 06-04-2021 9:11am

PringleDemon wrote: »

Sheep :mad:

Yeah. Sheep.
Everyone's a sheep...whatevs

drunkmonkey · 06-04-2021 9:11am

Snotty wrote: »

Feel like you missed the opportunity to use holocaust in that title too

You could of started it yourself, we need one on the literally no risk of Covid outside as reported in the times yesterday, feel free to get it going.

As for the title vaccine Apartheid is an issue just have a google of the two words, countries aren't normally doing it to themselves though it's against other countries and we're as guilty as the next fella for doing it.

Lurching · 06-04-2021 9:13am

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we are all going to be vaccinated within a few months, then why do we need all these "vaccine passport" type measures?

Why are we implementing costly and long term measures for something that should be managed in a few months time?

Because some people will refuse the vaccine....

Benimar · 06-04-2021 9:13am

Absolute Zero wrote: »

Scary to see some of the replies here. This place is more socialist with every passing year. People blindly trusting politicians like Varadkar.

I guess thats what a year of lockdown by the Government will do to people. People are seriously happy that the politicians are trying to bring in discriminatory practices against our own population?

Make them (the populace) willing to accept any incentive to regain their freedoms (They had no right to take in the first place, we are a submissive country after all). Lets hope these vaccinations have no future repercussions.

Varadkars a socialist??!!

daydorunrun · 06-04-2021 9:14am

I scoffed at the boiling frog analogy being used last year. Now.........not so much.
People were laughed at and directed to the CT forum here not too long ago for things that are now being accepted as a given.

pjohnson · 06-04-2021 9:14am

Vaccination is a choice.

But choices have consequences. If you decide not to get a vaccine then accept the consequences.

AdamD · 06-04-2021 9:15am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Ehm? They've told the vast majority of this population this virus doesn't affect to lock themselves up to protect the vulnerable. Now they want them to remain restricted long after the vulnerable have been vaccinated. If you want to open the economy in this way you're going to have a situation where older people are allowed to use services, staffed by younger people who themselves are not allowed to use the services.

How is that an excellent idea?

A 20 something year old offered a vaccine in July won't be considered 'fully vaccinated' by September if they get AZ. That simply is not feasible.

ebbsy · 06-04-2021 9:15am

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)

Like it or lump it.

bucketybuck · 06-04-2021 9:16am

timmyntc wrote: »

If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

Exactly. Its like bringing in mandatory quarantines 12 months after the start of the pandemic when vaccines are already starting to take hold. A day late and a dollar short as usual.

Its a nation of 5 million people, just pump the ****ing vaccines out there and the death rate will fall regardless of a few anti-vaxxers. Vaccine passports are so irrelevant to the real issue that it is just hard not to wonder about ulterior motives.

faceman · 06-04-2021 9:16am

timmyntc wrote: »

Half of the posts in this thread are yours - sounds like conspiracy theory nuts live rent free in your head.

Anyways, its not a good look for personal freedoms in this country when you will be excluded from society based on vaccination status.
If they bring this in before vaccination roll out is complete - discriminatory against younger people who wont have gotten a chance to get vaccinated.
If they bring it in after all have been vaccinated - whats the point?

You can’t discriminate against people who aren’t vaccinated - it’s an EU rule. That’s why the proposed EU travel cert also includes a negative test result

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:16am

Del2005 wrote: »

What about the vulnerable people who can't get a vaccine, do they have to stay locked up forever?

Herd immunity is still needed even if people are vaccinated, so letting the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated out while a large percentage isn't could see another surge affecting the people we thought were protected.

Forever??

olestoepoke · 06-04-2021 9:17am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

timmyntc · 06-04-2021 9:17am

ebbsy wrote: »

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)

Like it or lump it.

What countries are these?

The EU wide digital green card accepts proof of a negative covid test or antibodies (to prove you've recovered from covid) as well as vaccination status.
No country is barring travel from anyone unvaccinated

06-04-2021 9:18am

ebbsy wrote: »

Either way :

Certain countries will not let you in without the jab

You won't be allowed to take up certain jobs without the jab (eg in a nursing home)

Like it or lump it.

There is a huge difference between a vaccine being a requirement to travel and a vaccine being a requirement to take part in society.

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:19am

olestoepoke wrote: »

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

You mean an actual consequence of a making a choice???

And here I thought we were all sheep

pjohnson · 06-04-2021 9:20am

olestoepoke wrote: »

Unless you are one of the people that doesn't want to be vaccinated

Thats their choice. Accept the consequences of their choice.

06-04-2021 9:21am

pjohnson wrote: »

Vaccination is a choice.

But choices have consequences. If you decide not to get a vaccine then accept the consequences.

But couldn't the government extend the vaccine passport to other vaccines? The flu vaccine could become mandatory. Note that it's a vaccine passport, not a covid passport. It's coercion. It's a very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. It could potentially mean that people would need permission from the State to do basically anything.

olestoepoke · 06-04-2021 9:21am

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats their choice. Accept the consequences of their choice.

I agree, I was merely pointing out that the statement "there is literally no downside" is subjective and won't apply to a significant percentage of the population

Beasty · 06-04-2021 9:23am

Threads merged

drunkmonkey · 06-04-2021 9:24am

Beasty wrote: »

Threads merged

This is the vaccine passports thread, that's not what Leo was taking about.

timmyntc · 06-04-2021 9:25am

faceman wrote: »

You can’t discriminate against people who aren’t vaccinated - it’s an EU rule. That’s why the proposed EU travel cert also includes a negative test result

The EU travel pass wont discriminate - but national govts are free (well not free but they can do it in contravention of EU law) to put in place a 2 tier society for vaccinations vs un-vaccinated

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:26am

olestoepoke wrote: »

I agree, I was merely pointing out that the statement "there is literally no downside" is subjective and won't apply to a significant percentage of the population

If you're referring to the people who chose not to get the vaccination, then that's not a downside of the quicker opening up of society....

.... As nothing they would do would open society quicker.

So no, theres literally no downside to this.

Dressoutlet · 06-04-2021 9:27am

I have vaccine passports for all my children already. This is not some new concept

AdamD · 06-04-2021 9:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a vaccine being a requirement to travel and a vaccine being a requirement to take part in society.

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats their choice. Accept the consequences of their choice.

This isn't true either. There is a blatant downside for people who, depending on age and occupation will not see a vaccine for another few months, versus others who have already gotten them.

Its not just anti-vaccers who will have an issue with this if it goes beyond international travel

is_that_so · 06-04-2021 9:29am

Dressoutlet wrote: »

I have vaccine passports for all my children already. This is not some new concept

To go to a local restaurant, pub, shop or hotel? That would be new.

FileNotFound · 06-04-2021 9:30am

AdamD wrote: »

This isn't true either. There is a blatant downside for people who, depending on age and occupation will not see a vaccine for another few months, versus others who have already gotten them.

Its not just anti-vaccers who will have an issue with this if it goes beyond international travel

In fairness - as one of those due to age, good health and employment (WFH) who won't see a vaccine for a good while.

I really cannot argue that we should avoid the chance to let the economy open if we can, after all my bloody tax will be paying for every day it closes.

Would be a small minded approach from me if i demanded everyone stay home cause i have to. Spiting myself.

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:30am

is_that_so wrote: »

To go to a local restaurant, pub, shop or hotel? That would be new.

That restaurant / shop / hotel would be forced to stay closed for longer without this policy being used

is that what you want??

Dressoutlet · 06-04-2021 9:31am

See.
Not used to go to play centres and such but if there was a severe measles pandemic all of a sudden I would happily bring my vaccinated children everywhere we could.

Picture won't upload but look here to see what they look like.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hse+immunisation+passport&client=ms-android-huawei-rev1&prmd=insv&sxsrf=ALeKk0373PX3-or0w-26yxxmQ_4XDygGLA:1617697971976&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSxuTHmunvAhVCsXEKHWsPAbAQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=647&dpr=3#imgrc=8yjXHU_ectYYPM

olestoepoke · 06-04-2021 9:32am

sydthebeat wrote: »

If you're referring to the people who chose not to get the vaccination, then that's not a downside of the quicker opening up of society....

.... As nothing they would do would open society quicker.

So no, theres literally no downside to this.

Again, no downside unless you choose not to be vaccinated. A better way to phrase it would be 'literally no downside for those who choose to be vaccinated'

AdamD · 06-04-2021 9:33am

sydthebeat wrote: »

That restaurant / shop / hotel would be forced to stay closed for longer without this policy being used

is that what you want??

Who do you think works in these shops, hotels and restaurants? You will have non-vaccinated young people, not allowed to attend these places with their friends, but working there to serve vaccinated old people.

What I want is the country to open up in a way that allows everyone to avail of the services allowed to open.

sydthebeat · 06-04-2021 9:35am

olestoepoke wrote: »

Again, no downside unless you choose not to be vaccinated.

i wont win the lotto if i choose not to do it ??

i wont win a medal if i choose not to take part in sports ??

what is difficult to comprehend about this?

is_that_so · 06-04-2021 9:36am

sydthebeat wrote: »

That restaurant / shop / hotel would be forced to stay closed for longer without this policy being used

is that what you want??

Anything that gets them open seem to be the rationale here not health. You can see how people would slide into wild CTs on this. And the unvaccinated kids? Who enforces all of this?

06-04-2021 9:37am

sydthebeat wrote: »

That restaurant / shop / hotel would be forced to stay closed for longer without this policy being used

is that what you want??

Restaurants, shops, hotels and cafés have been open for the past year in Sweden, Norway, and other countries, without vaccine passports.

EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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