TheDriver wrote: » There appears to be no support for teachers, SNAs, Gardai etc getting the vaccine as a priority. We keep hearing that as you get to under 55, there's little risk of consequences of covid. so why can't everyone under 55 go back to workplaces? If Govt says we are not at risk in packed school buildings, fairly full school buses etc, why can't we open Penney's, open constructions, open gyms, let teams train? They are saying there is minimal risk so talk the talk and lower restrictions.
BonsaiKitten wrote: » Sure let the Government lead the way and come back into the Dáil en masse. We'll know it's safe then.
Beasty wrote: » No one says there is no risk in a school environment. However if a 25yo teacher is 70 times less likely to die from this disease if caught are you suggesting that 25yo teacher is more than 70 times more likely to catch the virus? No-one says there is no risk of covid. The risks increase with age. Put all under 55s back to work and the risk of them spreading it further (particularly the higher risk over 55s) increases. It really is common sense
More than 90 per cent of secondary school teachers say some students have disengaged as a result of the move to remote teaching and learning, according to a new survey.
is_that_so wrote: » Survey of teachers and the effect of remote learning on students.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-believe-remote-learning-has-led-some-students-to-disengage-1.4529509
average_runner wrote: » Yet if they go with vaccination of teachers first, lockdown will last longer as it leaves older people more exposed to covid with a greater risk than a 35 year old teacher.
CollectThat wrote: » Is there any point in vaccinating teachers? All of April will be spent vaccinating the over 70s. It will be May before teachers could potentially be vaccinated at which stage the school will year will nearly be finishing up?
BettyS wrote: » Why should teachers be elevated amongst all other key-workers? Will the cleaners who look after your schools, and potentially come into contact with the students be included? Key worker is a spiralling argument? And if they were to yield to the argument, it will be a fortnight before it can be organised. That takes us into May. The second dose would then be given by the end of May. The vaccine will only be effective by the end of June? Is the ASTI proposing to stay in school over the summer to help their students to catch up with missed school? Or will it not be a case that the teachers are on holidays?
JDD wrote: » I've got to admit, I am with the teachers on the vaccine priority issue. You can cut statistics anyway that you like. Of course a 30 year old is less likely to suffer seriously with covid then a 65 year old. But can we say that a 30 year old teacher is more likely to catch covid than the general cohort of 30 year olds nationwide? I haven't seen any statistics on this, but I would have to assume that it would hold true. So put it this way. Say you've got a general 5% chance of catching covid as a 30 year old in the general population. Of that 5% cohort, only 10% will be hospitalised, so 0.5%. Say you are a 65 year old in the general population. You still only have a 5% chance of catching covid, but you have 30% chance of being hospitalised, so 1.5%. But say you are three times more likely to catch covid as a teacher. Kids might be less likely to catch or spread covid, but you are in an enclosed environment - and in primary, unmasked - environment for five hours a day. It's not an outlandish theory. So a 15% chance of catching covid, and as a 30 year old you have a 10% chance of being hospitalised. That means, as a 30 year old teacher, you have 1.5% chance of being hospitalised with covid, the same as a 65 year old. Now I have plucked those statistics out of the air, because they don't seem to publish the chances of catching covid by profession, nor the chances of being hospitalised by age. But you can see a scenario where teachers, by virtue of their profession, would have a much higher chance of suffering seriously from covid than their contemporaries of the same age. It is conceivably true that their chance of suffering seriously from covid is the same as some of the older and higher priority cohorts. If I was a teacher, or a union rep, I would want to see the numbers (which the HSE/HSPC surely have) of hospitalised or long covid teachers to really assess what the higher chance might be.
astrofool wrote: » All the data so far has shown that schools are not a risky environment for SARS-COV2 to be passed between individuals, giving a vaccine to a teacher over an older person who isn't a teacher is ethically wrong, it's very hard for anyone to side with the teachers based on the facts.
JDD wrote: » See this I have to take with a pinch of salt. We have a subpar contact tracing system, which only traces back two days worth of contacts before your symptoms start, when in fact it is likely you caught the virus between 5 and 10 days before symptoms start. So we really have no idea which locations are more risky than others. It's the same argument used by pubs, restaurants and gyms - "the statistics show that very little infection was caught in a pub/restaurant/gym environment, so we should be allowed to reopen" when the reality is that we don't do contact tracing properly so we actually have no idea where infections start. So I can't put much weight on the "studies show that schools are not risky". The only real empirical evidence to show whether schools are riskier or not would be to compare the number of infections of teachers within a certain age category, as compared to the same age category in general in the population. And they don't publish that information. EDIT: Now, it may turn out that teachers are no more at risk than the public at large, due to the fact that children are less likely to catch the virus, and less likely to spread it. If that is the case, then teachers have no evidential reason to back up their wish to be prioritised.
astrofool wrote: » Sure, if there is evidence that vaccinating a teacher will save more lives than vaccinating an older person (who also may be a teacher), then it can be re-evaluated, but there is no evidence that this is the case so far. The science has been pretty clear that the person with the greatest risk is consistently the older person regardless of profession or where they work, and rollout should follow the science.
Its around 3.6 million adults. But we dont need to vaccinate all of these. We only need to concentrate on everyone over 65 which is 700k. Out of the current deaths 92% of them are in this age group 3780 out of 4109. We should just throw all our vaccines at this age group and not have tiers at all. I would even argue about vaccinating health care workers first. If we did this we could have all those over 65s done in 5 weeks @150,000 per week. Deaths and hospitalizations would drop like stone and we could reopen completely within this time.
JP100 wrote: » Schools closed for 11 days now and case numbers steadily start to drop off! Who'd have thunk it!
Hellrazer wrote: » My own opinion- the government are right in going whole hog by age. Fastest and quickest way to get us out of this lockdown.
Jinglejangle69 wrote: » There is more cases today than this day last week.
JP100 wrote: » It's no mere coincidence that some of the very same posters who wanted schools to remain open at all costs and regularly shouted that teachers should be made to go in to schools and irrespective of case numbers and positivity rates - are now also the same posters who do not want school staff to retain the place they were originally given in the vaccine rollout! Chip, shoulder and agenda are all words that spring to mind here!
Hellrazer wrote: » Chip , Shoulder and Agenda works both ways in this discussion.
seamus wrote: » Indeed. Teachers are not frontline workers. Vaccinating them as a matter of priority doesn't act to protect the vulnerable. Therefore there's no primary benefit to prioritising them. There may be a secondary benefit because they're in more contact with others, but it has to be asked is the cost worth it? If it was possible that the HSE said that they would land into a state-funded school on a given day, inject all the staff and leave again, I'd say that's cool, let's do that. But we all know that wouldn't fly. The unions would insist on "discussing" it. Looking to have the schools closed that day, and a paid in-service day for all of the teachers. They'd demand that substitute teachers not be included and teachers on maternity leave or career breaks come in to get their injections instead. That schools draw up internal priority lists so the most senior staff get their injections first. And so on. And they take weeks to "negotiate" these points, before balloting members to come back with an answer. And by the time the unions got their fingers out of their arses and said, "Come on in", it would be mid-July and the teachers would all be vaccinated anyway. Age-based rollout cuts out the bullsh1t and ensures the most vulnerable are covered earliest.
seamus wrote: » If it was possible that the HSE said that they would land into a state-funded school on a given day, inject all the staff and leave again, I'd say that's cool, let's do that. But we all know that wouldn't fly. The unions would insist on "discussing" it. Looking to have the schools closed that day, and a paid in-service day for all of the teachers. They'd demand that substitute teachers not be included and teachers on maternity leave or career breaks come in to get their injections instead. That schools draw up internal priority lists so the most senior staff get their injections first. And so on. And they take weeks to "negotiate" these points, before balloting members to come back with an answer. And by the time the unions got their fingers out of their arses and said, "Come on in", it would be mid-July and the teachers would all be vaccinated anyway.
lulublue22 wrote: » There seems to be huge confusion around this my understanding is teachers are not looking to be prioritised over the elderly or those with underlying conditions but to be part of the cohort vaccinated in group 9.
