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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Beasty

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Mod Warnings

1. Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

2. Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please. You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it

3. Stick to the topic, which is not moderation or other users. Remain civil. Report, don't react, to posts or posters who you think are an issue. This is unfortunately a polarised topic for some (not all). There is some middle ground though and please do not think the worse of posters simply because you have opposing views

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am_zarathustra

This is very true, vaccinate everyone even over 60 first but not vaccinating teachers will lead to rolling closures. I don't much care, I'm happy moving between online and in person but it's crap for the kids and I don't think the general public understand that this is what will happen.

I will also say they should have understood their own limitations from the start or done better job. A properly cross referancable database is what's preventing this happening and causing the opening for corrultion. Hire some programmers, good ones, and then don't let a single person above assistant principal in the CS talk to them.

Hopefully we will be done by next september.

Beasty

Those facing Covid patients have

School teachers, Guards and the like are really little different from Supermarket workers in terms of their exposure to and risk of catching Covid 19

So can anyone tell me - how many teachers have died from Covid-19? What proportion of the workforce? Then compare that with the proportion of over 60s that have died. That tells you where priorities should lie.

I heard yesterday someone in their 60s is something like 70 times more likely to die from Covid-19 that someone in their 20s. I think it was something like 50 times when compared to someone in their 30s. I presume that was in relation to numbers catching the disease and I full accept that teachers, Guards and supermarket workers are more exposed. But are they 50 or 70 times more exposed? I suspect not.

byhookorbycrook

Beasty wrote: »

That would not make sense if you are considering health as the main priority, which is very much the case with Ireland's approach. The economy has been very much put on the back burner

Vaccinating in order of vulnerability is the "purest" way to do it when considering health. That means those with specific vulnerability and exposures first, then down though the age groups, which is exactly how it has turned out

But it hasn’t . Otherwise those working in schools , the Gardai retail and early childhood settings should be vaccinated shortly . The “ new “ approach means that a perfectly healthy 50 year old accountant working from home will be vaccinated before a 26 year high risk crèche worker .
It’s being sold through death figures, exclusively, taking no account of hospitalisation and long Covid.

Darwin

Beasty wrote: »

That would not make sense if you are considering health as the main priority, which is very much the case with Ireland's approach. The economy has been very much put on the back burner

Vaccinating in order of vulnerability is the "purest" way to do it when considering health. That means those with specific vulnerability and exposures first, then down though the age groups, which is exactly how it has turned out

If those with specific exposures have been prioritised, then surely all public facing essential workers will have been vaccinated first? This has been the model in quite a few EU countries, but not here.

Beasty

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

The best way of doing it, and the way nobody in this entire country even mentions, is to do entire regions at a go as a lottery. That way, whole areas could go back to normal at the same time and relative economic normality could resume. Also it would make it less likely that virus would mutate in the portion of the population who aren't vaccinated as they mingle with those who are.

But that just makes way too much sense, and it would get rid of the fighting and bickering which is making us too busy to direct our energy at the tyrannical and sick ruling regime we're currently oppressed by.

That would not make sense if you are considering health as the main priority, which is very much the case with Ireland's approach. The economy has been very much put on the back burner

Vaccinating in order of vulnerability is the "purest" way to do it when considering health. That means those with specific vulnerability and exposures first, then down though the age groups, which is exactly how it has turned out

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

25 on average, with most in primary school

The average tells us very little though. In my area one primary school had all staff and students tested last week such was the scale of the cluster, in another primary, of similar size in a neighbouring parish, two people were tested.

[Deleted User]

History Queen wrote: »

You realise in many schools 25 tests would be less than a class? In post primary a student could be in class with 60 or 70 different students throughout the day, more in some cases.

25 on average, with most in primary school

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And yet we have data here showing 25 test per school where contact tracing was carried out

You realise in many schools 25 tests would be less than a class? In post primary a student could be in class with 60 or 70 different students throughout the day, more in some cases.

shtpEdthePlum

Beasty wrote: »

It really is the only way to manage a pandemic like this. Leave it open to consultation and nothing gets done, with everyone making themselves out to be special cases

It's proven most effective elsewhere. I would imagine one of the major benefits when they talk about "efficiency" is it takes a lot of pressure off the health service in terms of patient care. But not only that, it avoids debate/argument over who fits in which consort and who's turn is it next and indeed arguments like the one surrounding the Beacon fiasco

The best way of doing it, and the way nobody in this entire country even mentions, is to do entire regions at a go as a lottery. That way, whole areas could go back to normal at the same time and relative economic normality could resume. Also it would make it less likely that virus would mutate in the portion of the population who aren't vaccinated as they mingle with those who are.

But that just makes way too much sense, and it would get rid of the fighting and bickering which is making us too busy to direct our energy at the tyrannical and sick ruling regime we're currently oppressed by.

[Deleted User]

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Contact tracing is exceptionally hit and miss, in many cases those who would be designated as close contacts anywhere else are not deemed to be so in schools. Like "mass testing" "pods" and "bubbles" it sounds so very reassuring whilst being completely without meaning in schools.

As to "schools are safe" there is quite a lot of anecdotal reporting of HSE officials trying to tie people in knots so that an outbreak/ cases will not be deemed as school linked.

And yet we have data here showing 25 test per school where contact tracing was carried out

byhookorbycrook

Deleted User wrote: »

Look at that. Last week, from 6,538 tests after close contact testing undertaken in educational facilities following notification to Departments of Public Health of a confirmed case of Covid-19 who had attended a facility during the infectious time period, less than 2% tested positive. That's less than 1 in 50 of those exposed to an infectious student or teacher.
It truly is starting to look like the safe school mantra is actually true

Also in the 2 weeks to the 30th of MArch, Karen Central Alerting parents of outbreaks in Schools reported cases in 270 schools, in the week from the 19th to the 26th there was contact tracing testing in 257 schools.

Contact tracing is exceptionally hit and miss, in many cases those who would be designated as close contacts anywhere else are not deemed to be so in schools. Like "mass testing" "pods" and "bubbles" it sounds so very reassuring whilst being completely without meaning in schools.

As to "schools are safe" there is quite a lot of anecdotal reporting of HSE officials trying to tie people in knots so that an outbreak/ cases will not be deemed as school linked.

byhookorbycrook

Knine wrote: »

I agree 100% A bit too late for us though as my daughter brought it home from her special school. Now we are all positive.

SET here, I'm so sorry to read that this has been visited on your family and wish you all the best outcome possible.

appledrop

So sorry to hear that Knine hope your all doing ok.

Irish Times reporting that CRC in Clontarf a special schools has 15 positive cases.

Not asking you to identify if this is your daughters school but worrying if it's not and it's another outbreak!

Disgraceful that staff in special schools are not receiving priority for vaccines.

They are always going to be at higher risk of catching it, your can't social distance in a special school.

am_zarathustra

Sorry to here that Knine, I'm sure you have enough on your plate. Hopefully you all feel better soon.

In the current climate I actually don't know how you and other parents have coped, it's a real stricking juxtaposition between parents doing everything with so few supports and consultants putting vaccines in their pockets. Ye are phenomenal

Knine

deiseindublin wrote: »

Sorry to read your post Knine, I hope you and family are not too sick/feeling ok.

Not saying it's ok to get/have it but I think were it here I'd be happier for us all to be in the same boat, at the same time, as trying to isolate from each other would be difficult.

No isolating from a child with a lot of care needs! We are starting to hopefully come out the other side of it

deiseindublin

Sorry to read your post Knine, I hope you and family are not too sick/feeling ok.

Not saying it's ok to get/have it but I think were it here I'd be happier for us all to be in the same boat, at the same time, as trying to isolate from each other would be difficult.

Knine

Tiredteach wrote: »

People reporting on Twitter that 16 members of staff in a special needs school in Ireland have tested positive this week.

Likely the same special needs school my daughter goes to. I actually got a call from a HSE Public Health Doctor about the situation!

Tiredteach

People reporting on Twitter that 16 members of staff in a special needs school in Ireland have tested positive this week.

km79

History Queen wrote: »

Interesting development. Though I assume they know the Department of Education are unfamiliar with the term "immediately"

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1377632676832800768?s=19

Who will administer them ?

History Queen

Interesting development. Though I assume they know the Department of Education are unfamiliar with the term "immediately"

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1377632676832800768?s=19

vid36

TheTorment wrote: »

France orders schools closed

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0331/1207319-france-coronavirus/

Macron had taken a very firm stance on keeping schools open but at the end of day its all about the numbers. Case numbers, hospital numbers and ICU capacity decide not political will. I really hope we do not experience this again.

KathleenGrant

Knine wrote: »

I agree 100% A bit too late for us though as my daughter brought it home from her special school. Now we are all positive.

That's tough. Hope you are all ok.

Knine

KathleenGrant wrote: »

The special schools opened first (admittedly very shortly before midterm) and units in mainstream schools shortly after. This was because it was recognised the valuable part they play in the lives of those children and their families. Many of those students cannot social distance and the staff are required to be in close proximity and some even provide intimate care.

If the service they provide is that invaluable that they are back first (weeks before some students and months before others) then all staff working in special schools and units should be vaccinated as a priority group.

I agree 100% A bit too late for us though as my daughter brought it home from her special school. Now we are all positive.

am_zarathustra

I'm not so pushed about being moved down the list, personally I feel it's the right choice, I'm not likely to even be I'll, nevermind very ill. The only issue I see is keeping schools open. Like the ICU beds the chronic underfunding of education and the lack of substitutes will lead to closures. My argument for possible vaccination in urban areas would be purely logistical and to avoid closures. Should be ok at secondary but primary might end up with rolling class closures.

[Deleted User]

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

Sure they are safe. Wanna buy a bridge?

So they are hiding the positive tests from an average of 24 tests per school outbreak?

[Deleted User]

France orders schools closed

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0331/1207319-france-coronavirus/

Crocodile Booze

Deleted User wrote: »

It truly is starting to look like the safe schools mantra is actually true

Sure they are safe. Wanna buy a bridge?

Beasty

TheDriver wrote: »

It's the manner in which all was changed with a pen stroke is the shameful bit. Dreadful stuff.
January proved you don't just make landmark decisions without consulting and explaining the reasons first.

It really is the only way to manage a pandemic like this. Leave it open to consultation and nothing gets done, with everyone making themselves out to be special cases

It's proven most effective elsewhere. I would imagine one of the major benefits when they talk about "efficiency" is it takes a lot of pressure off the health service in terms of patient care. But not only that, it avoids debate/argument over who fits in which consort and who's turn is it next and indeed arguments like the one surrounding the Beacon fiasco

And I will freely acknowledge this pushes me massively up the list, but that is not the issue for me. I suspect I'm amongst the fittest for my age group (although equally my health has suffered through accident and injury, with me due back in the Sports Surgery Clinic tomorrow for what will be my 5th procedure in just over 6 months). A lot of other people my age will be at much higher risk than those in their 20s or 30s in the teaching profession. Of course those in their 50s and 60s will probably move up the list

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Look at that. Last week, from 6,538 tests after close contact testing undertaken in educational facilities following notification to Departments of Public Health of a confirmed case of Covid-19 who had attended a facility during the infectious time period, less than 2% tested positive. That's less than 1 in 50 of those exposed to an infectious student or teacher.
It truly is starting to look like the safe school mantra is actually true

Also in the 2 weeks to the 30th of MArch, Karen Central Alerting parents of outbreaks in Schools reported cases in 270 schools, in the week from the 19th to the 26th there was contact tracing testing in 257 schools.

2nd level missing 1st-4th years, they'd want to be safe. An argument for alternate weeks as many proposed on here.

[Deleted User]

Look at that. Last week, from 6,538 tests after close contact testing undertaken in educational facilities following notification to Departments of Public Health of a confirmed case of Covid-19 who had attended a facility during the infectious time period, less than 2% tested positive. That's less than 1 in 50 of those exposed to an infectious student or teacher.
It truly is starting to look like the safe school mantra is actually true

Also in the 2 weeks to the 30th of MArch, Karen Central Alerting parents of outbreaks in Schools reported cases in 270 schools, in the week from the 19th to the 26th there was contact tracing testing in 257 schools.