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EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

biko

This is to be implemented in 2 years time.

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

Commission proposal for a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens

https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/eu-considers-vaccination-passport-for-kids/

The ultimate goal of a vaccination passport would be to ensure that children who move between countries with different immunisation schedules do not miss out on crucial vaccinations. A similar scheme is already in place for pets and has helped boost vaccination rates, according to the European Commission.

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tommybrees

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wadacrack

sydthebeat wrote: »

Of course it's a choice

But with every choice theres an upside and downside.

If you choose not to do something for the benefit of the wider society, and to put more vulnerable people at risk, there needs to be a downside to that choice.

The more vulnerable will be vaccinated and all evidence suggests that they will be protected from serious illness.

FileNotFound

Seems like a nice story to get a few people riled up, even if it were real, the odds of an effective system in place before majority vaccination is hard to see.

Just a thought but would this allow a restaurant for example to have an area with less social distancing (for use with vaccinated people) while having greater space in the remaining parts?

Either way, won't be ready before its redundant.

is_that_so

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

Up to 30% may not have such passports and just what are we going to do about the kids? Could be lots of unintended consequences to changing a voluntary vaccination programme into a mandatory one. That's one extra thing to bring with you when you do the weekly shop.

prunudo

sydthebeat wrote: »

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

So you're happy with the idea of pregnant women never being allowed to holiday again?

sydthebeat

wadacrack wrote: »

Not everyone wants to be vaccinated. The idea of needing a vaccine passport to enter certain settings is a worrying one.

It should be a choice at this stage. I'm not against vaccines and will be happy to take this one when available but the option should be their.

This could set a precedent in the future that would lead to Governments gaining more control, and power from people.

The problem is now that stating such a thing almost makes you morally inferior in some people's eyes.

Its important to understand both sides of the argument.

Of course it's a choice

But with every choice theres an upside and downside.

If you choose not to do something for the benefit of the wider society, and to put more vulnerable people at risk, there needs to be a downside to that choice.

sydthebeat

Excellent idea.

Works great in other countries that have already brought it in.

There is literally no downside.
Economy can open quicker, elderly and most vulnerable can get back out socially quicker....
Normality returns quicker

wadacrack

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we are all going to be vaccinated within a few months, then why do we need all these "vaccine passport" type measures?

Why are we implementing costly and long term measures for something that should be managed in a few months time?

Not everyone wants to be vaccinated. The idea of needing a vaccine passport to enter certain settings is a worrying one.

It should be a choice at this stage. I'm not against vaccines and will be happy to take this one when available but the option should be their.

This could set a precedent in the future that would lead to Governments gaining more control, and power from people.

The problem is now that stating such a thing almost makes you morally inferior in some people's eyes.

Its important to understand both sides of the argument.

10pennymixup

I'm up for the "irish Apartheid" if it means Gemma Doherty and her ilk are shipped off to Robin Island for life hard labour.

is_that_so

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we are all going to be vaccinated within a few months, then why do we need all these "vaccine passport" type measures?

Why are we implementing costly and long term measures for something that should be managed in a few months time?

The passports are effectively to get tourism back up and running in Europe. Some are looking to Israel and how they seem to be using them, more as a means of helping other industries than for the good of science.

Zaph

FlubberJones wrote: »

So that means the over 70s will be able to travel quicker and enjoy a "more active life" than the younger people awaiting the vaccine... brilliant.

What have you got against over 70s? Lockdown hasn't exactly been a bundle of joy for them either you know? Why shouldn't they be able to take advantage of having been vaccinated while the programme works its way through the rest of the population?

Padre_Pio

It won't happen.

Sounds like a decent idea, but it's a government project.
It'll be a year before it's ready and at that stage no one will care.

bucketybuck

If we are all going to be vaccinated within a few months, then why do we need all these "vaccine passport" type measures?

Why are we implementing costly and long term measures for something that should be managed in a few months time?

is_that_so

pjohnson wrote: »

Word salad title aside the actual idea sounds good.

Unless you're someone who can't avail of it but if people have embraced the idea of mandatory quarantine so this one will go down very well. Very hard to see how this will work, apart from maybe travel and just as easy to see it generate a lot of tension especially if it used as a means of exclusion.

PringleDemon

Sheep :mad:

gctest50

FlubberJones wrote: »

So that means the over 70s will be able to travel quicker and enjoy a "more active life" than the younger people awaiting the vaccine... brilliant.

The government has to reward the guinea pigs so they'll be twice as willing next pandemic

faceman

Great news, finally recognition for the vaccines doing their job.

Jim_Hodge

All for a proof that you've been vaccinated. As for more freedoms for the vaccinated, Great idea.

Is that what you want OP?

#StupidThread.

FlubberJones

So that means the over 70s will be able to travel quicker and enjoy a "more active life" than the younger people awaiting the vaccine... brilliant.

Sanjuro

What do you really expect from this if you title your thread like that?

pjohnson

Random word salad title aside the actual idea sounds good.

drunkmonkey

From the Times this morning..

Leo Varadkar has confirmed the Government is developing a “digital green certificate vaccine pass” for people to prove they have been fully inoculated.

He said the Government would introduce “additional measures for the fully vaccinated, more freedoms for those who have been vaccinated”.
Vaccinated will be offered additional freedoms, says Varadkar (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/vaccinated-will-be-offered-additional-freedoms-says-varadkar-1.4529990

I'm curious to know how far they'll take this or can they even legally do it.

Gael23

Any more news on this

Gael23

I’m sure NOHET have other plans. It won’t work if governments or unelected officials can impose additional restrictions

is_that_so

Spain saying they expect vaccine passports in the EU will be ready by June.

Spain expects digital vaccine certificates to ease travel within the European Union will be ready in June at the latest, foreign minister Arancha Gonzalez Laya has said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0331/1207123-coronavirus-global/

biko

The White House says it’s up to the private sector to develop vaccine passports and the government is not viewing its role as the place to create a passport or a place to hold the data of citizens.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said in a separate briefing Monday there will be no centralized federal vaccination database, and no federal mandate requiring a single vaccination credential.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-29/vaccine-passport-push-to-come-from-private-sector-officials-say

What? It is the government's responsibility to oversee the scope and handing of such passports.
If not it will be just like state level gun permits, which is a mess for another thread.

[Deleted User]

biko wrote: »

It is being rolled out across the pond.

The nation’s very first “vaccine passport” is coming to the Big Apple.

The program, dubbed the “Excelsior Pass,” is an app that will allow New Yorkers to prove their vaccination status, or recent history of a negative COVID-19 test, in order to gain entry to events and businesses, Governor Cuomo announced in a news release Friday.

“Similar to a mobile airline boarding pass, individuals will be able to either print out their pass or store it on their smartphones using the Excelsior Pass Wallet app,” the news release explains.

Major venues, such as Madison Square Garden and the Times Union Center in Albany, will begin using the app next week and on April 2, Excelsior Pass will expand to “smaller arts, entertainment and event venues,” Cuomo’s office said.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/26/nations-first-covid-vaccine-passport-coming-to-new-york/

The good thing about the US is the federal system of government there. For example, the Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, recently ruled out vaccine passports during a roundtable discussion with medical experts. So while it is happening in New York, it's unlikely to happen in the whole country because of the differences between the various states. That's why I think the federal system is good. Neil Oliver described America recently as a country made up of different countries. And even within states there's a lot of local governance. So if one state isn't the right fit then there are other states to consider. Joe Rogan, for example, moved from California to Texas. I think Elon Musk did too. The restrictions in California were just too much for them.

pottokblue

I have a vaccine since jan but no passport do I apply online??

biko

It is being rolled out across the pond.

The nation’s very first “vaccine passport” is coming to the Big Apple.

The program, dubbed the “Excelsior Pass,” is an app that will allow New Yorkers to prove their vaccination status, or recent history of a negative COVID-19 test, in order to gain entry to events and businesses, Governor Cuomo announced in a news release Friday.

“Similar to a mobile airline boarding pass, individuals will be able to either print out their pass or store it on their smartphones using the Excelsior Pass Wallet app,” the news release explains.

Major venues, such as Madison Square Garden and the Times Union Center in Albany, will begin using the app next week and on April 2, Excelsior Pass will expand to “smaller arts, entertainment and event venues,” Cuomo’s office said.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/26/nations-first-covid-vaccine-passport-coming-to-new-york/

Risteard81

robinph wrote: »

There is a lot of noise today around pubs requiring vaccine passports in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56517486

Still not seeing the point of it though.

At the moment the pubs are shut. If the pubs reopen as expected in April in the UK then the only people who'd be able to go to the pub would be the over 50's. Then sometime during the summer if the vaccine rollout continues as planned and everyone has been offered a vaccine you then have the option for all adults to be able to go to the pub... but the pubs will have been open for several months at that point with only 50 year olds able to go to them. What about the bar staff who haven't been given a vaccine yet, do they get banned from working?

Then once you have all the population offered a vaccine such that the government releases all social distancing requirements... why does it then matter if you have been vaccinated or not in order to go to the pub? If the social distancing requirements don't exist, then what makes pubs a special environment that social distancing from those who happen to be unvaccinated for whatever reason is required?

If the cases are low and 80% of the adult population has been vaccinated, then why do you need to prove vaccination to have a pint?

The concept of vaccine passports is so completely, utterly and totally Treasonous - and must be viewed as such.

robinph

josip wrote: »

That's a much more insidious action than an additional vaccine passport.

I don't think it is necessarily insidious setting up vaccine passports, although there is certainly the option there for it to become something more once implemented.

It is just a waste of time, effort and money for all concerned and provides absolutely nothing useful in the fighting of the virus or stopping it spread. Certainly not in terms of letting people go to pubs, and only very negligible benefit in international travel between certain countries. And in terms of international travel the reasons for bringing in a vaccine passport requirement are completely back to front.

Country A with high vaccine take up doesn't need you to prove vaccination to go to the pub because most of the population is vaccinated so everyone is protected anyway. Waste of time to have a vaccine passport and just excludes those who cannot be vaccinated.

Country B with low vaccine take up. Person from Country B isn't going to be permitted to visit Country A anyway if the virus is rampant in Country B, and if you can't get the vaccine because country B isn't providing it in sufficient numbers to the population then you can hardly get a vaccine passport either from country B.

Person from Country A who has been vaccinated isn't a risk to country B because they are coming from a country with low virus in the population, country B is probably not a great place to go to at that point in time if the virus is everywhere, and country B certainly won't give a damn if you've been vaccinated as they have enough problems of their own dealing with the virus and trying to persuade their population to be vaccinated. It might make sense for Country A to require you to have proof of vaccination before they let you leave Country A as they don't want you bringing anything back from Country B, but Country A is mostly protected anyway just by the fact that they have most of their population vaccinated and they won't be letting mass travel from Country B in anyway.

Country C also having high vaccine take up in their population then it really doesn't matter to A or C who of their citizens go between the two as they are both protected by high vaccine take up.

So the vaccine passport thing might be useful for Country B in trying to persuade a higher take up of the vaccine in their population before they will let you leave, but it is of no benefit to anyone else. The sole purpose it for the vaccine passport to be used as a stick to get people to take the vaccine...and that isn't really needed for Ireland as people will be taking it anyway in high numbers.