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How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Tokyo

Mod:

Continuation of the How long before Irish reunification? thread.

Please note that all mod warnings, actions and threadbans from the previous thread carry across to here.

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
blanch152
Randy Archer
Natterjack from Kerry
littlevillage

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trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

Why not, since it was them partitioned the Country ?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie you are on your own now. Everyone else clearly knows what I said. You are trolling

I knew what you said at the time downcow. You were trying to make a point about only people who were born into nationalist homes would be upset and you were 'concerned' about them.

You were as usual trying to make the best of something. The only people upset by this so far are belligerent Unionists.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You tried to say the flag issue was one that would only upset people who were born into nationalist homes.

They aren't nationalists they are Unionists downcow if they support the 'Union' and they aren't the ones upset...as I showed in the article I posted about the DUP. Belligerent Unionism is upset....as usual.

Francie you are on your own now. Everyone else clearly knows what I said. You are trolling

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am ok with that terminology, but thank you for confirming that you know exactly what I meant. We just need Francie to catch up now

You tried to say the flag issue was one that would only upset people who were born into nationalist homes.

They aren't nationalists they are Unionists downcow if they support the 'Union' and they aren't the ones upset...as I showed in the article I posted about the DUP. Belligerent Unionism is upset....as usual.

Rodin

The Union fleg will not be making an every day return to buildings in the north

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

"Cultural Nationalist" would be a more appropriate and accurate term lad.

I am ok with that terminology, but thank you for confirming that you know exactly what I meant. We just need Francie to catch up now

downcow

bonzothedog wrote: »

Ah ffs man, I came up with the poll after 5 minutes deep thought about the assumptions give me a break!

I think the poll results are interesting though, what do you think?

Why did you need to put in assumptions? Why not let people think for themselves?

downcow

droidman123 wrote: »

If they support the union why would they be wound up over the flying of the union flag?

I think you know.
They grew up as nationalists, have Irish culture and identity and don’t like the ‘butchers apron’ but they like the ni identity and love the benifits of living in the U.K.

briany

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The way things are progressing it wouldn't appear at the moment that any compromise towards unionists would be required to get it to pass. So if no compromise is necessary, then why bother? As has been pointed out unionism will not be satisfied with any form of Irish unity, so what would throwing them a bone achieve?

I can see the process already, a government that thinks it's being responsible will construct a referendum for unity which requires symbols etc to be changed. Such a referendum would likely pass but a nationalist government at a later point, lookups for an easy political win would quickly propose reversing it.

The only way unity is a success is through assimilation and absorption. Expecting the majority to change for an unpleasable minority will be a disaster.

I think it's the attitude of 'no compromise' toward British Unionists which makes many of them so afraid of the idea of UI. There's a certain ambiguity to the phrase 'no compromise' because it could mean no compromises beyond the freedoms they currently have, or it could mean no compromise where their culture is forcibly suppressed and they face discrimination at every turn.

But in whatever way the phrase is meant, I'm not sure it's true to say that no compromise is necessary. It shouldn't be assumed that every NI Nationalist/Catholic would vote for a UI because at least some of them would have economic concerns about what a UI would actually mean. Having no border on the island is one thing, but that doesn't put food on the table, and it doesn't assuage fears of losing the NHS and what that means.

And unless our collective memories are very short, it was only a few years ago that we saw the UK undertake a divisive and very close referendum of their own, and 'We won, you lost. No compromise." led to years of political infighting and lasting bitterness. I don't think it's a model to be followed.

JimmyVik

jm08 wrote: »

Yeats will be turning in his grave!

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57309/september-1913

Yeats wont be voting either

jm08

JimmyVik wrote: »

No, its not the equivalent. Nowhere near it

I notice on the poll thread a lot of people saying Ireland can afford the North.
Once they find out what will be coming out of their own pocket for it they might think a little more about that one

Yeats will be turning in his grave!

What need you, being come to sense,

But fumble in a greasy till

And add the halfpence to the pence

And prayer to shivering prayer, until

You have dried the marrow from the bone;

For men were born to pray and save:

Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,

It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57309/september-1913

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !

"Cultural Nationalist" would be a more appropriate and accurate term lad.

bonzothedog

downcow wrote: »

The poll is a nonsense as it opens with rediculous assumptions eg unionists will accept it - my goodness that means I will accept it. I am actually surprised anyone in Roi will stand in the way if that list of assumptions is trus.

Ah ffs man, I came up with the poll after 5 minutes deep thought about the assumptions give me a break!

I think the poll results are interesting though, what do you think?

FrancieBrady

Didn't take long:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-to-push-for-new-rule-on-union-flag-for-northern-ireland-40236952.html

[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

I think this is a mad counterproductive idea like something the dup would come up with. I am so glad it will not apply to ni. Would only wind up the many traditional nationalists who currently support the union.

If they support the union why would they be wound up over the flying of the union flag?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Very difficult to have a discussion with you Francie when you dance on the head of a pin

Don't use terminology that is wrong so. If you support the UK you are not an Irish nationalist and you won't therefore be 'wound up' by the flag of that union.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

Threatening a fledgling country with 'immediate and terrible war' would incur a lot of blame. Mustering thousands of men and weapons and threatening sedition of you don't get your sectarian bigoted way would also incur a fair share of the blame.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who cannot be counted as Irish Nationalists downcow if they support the UK.

They are unionists, why would they be wound up by their flag?

Very difficult to have a discussion with you Francie when you dance on the head of a pin

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !

Who cannot be counted as Irish Nationalists downcow if they support the UK.

They are unionists, why would they be wound up by their flag?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You cannot be an Irish nationalist and support a foreign monarchy downcow.

Misrepresenting again.
You know is was referring to british people who love the union but don’t support the monarchy.

I absolutely never referred to Irish nationalists supporting the monarchy

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You claimed traditional nationalists support being in the UK...you cannot be an Irish nationalist and support the UK...contradiction in terms.

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

Oh Jesus. I give up.

Well ok, might be as well as you don't seem too informed on how it will happen. You really weren't making any sense, claiming a Unionist vote would be 'small potatoes'.

Did you think the poll would be an aggregate of the whole population of the island?

JimmyVik

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

Oh Jesus. I give up.

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

Does someone really have to explain that to you?

Well here a big one for a start.
There are no consequences to clicking on a radio button on a website. There are in a polling booth.

There are lots of other reasons that im not even going to waste my time typing, because everyone surely can figure them out.

And dont forget its going to be an all island poll. The amount of unionists who might be voting a different way than you think will be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

BTW - you can support the union and not support the monarchy. Millions do

You cannot be an Irish nationalist and support a foreign monarchy downcow.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Misquoting and misrepresenting again Francie. Where did I say otherwise?

You claimed traditional nationalists support being in the UK...you cannot be an Irish nationalist and support the UK...contradiction in terms.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been 'othered' again downcow. Realities.

BTW - if you support the UK union you are not an Irish nationalist. Or a republican, as you support monarchy.

BTW - you can support the union and not support the monarchy. Millions do

JimmyVik

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How so?

Both are anonymous. You claim people will make a different decision in the polling booth because it is anonymous, yet here on an anonymous forum the yes side is showing a strong lead.

BTW reticence about revealing your voting intentions cuts both ways. Many Unionists may do the same in the anonymity of a polling booth. Probably balance one and other out.

Does someone really have to explain that to you?

Well here a big one for a start.
There are no consequences to clicking on a radio button on a website. There are in a polling booth.

There are lots of other reasons that im not even going to waste my time typing, because everyone surely can figure them out.

And dont forget its going to be an all island poll. The amount of unionists who might be voting a different way than you think will be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Its not the votes North of the border that will be swinging it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been 'othered' again downcow. Realities.

BTW - if you support the UK union you are not an Irish nationalist. Or a republican, as you support monarchy.

Misquoting and misrepresenting again Francie. Where did I say otherwise?