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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Any posts that should be in the race weekend threads that are posted in here will get deleted without warning

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vectra

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Haas inc feat. from Russia with love.

Whoever would have thought that the Americans > the Russians & Zee Germans would join forces

Killinator

Personally I know a lot of people don't like the sons of money getting drives and 100% there are more talented drivers missing out as a result of 'daddy's money', buuuuut on the flip side if it wasn't for 'daddy's money's there could be at least 2 teams less on the grid, 4 drives gone.

Force India and more recently Haas have been one punch away from a knockout blow to their F1 endeavors.
If 'Daddy Stroll' doesn't buy into Force India, sure we don't have to watch Sir Lancelot buuut we most likely don't get to watch anyone else in his stead either as there is no team at all.

Pen Rua

https://www.racefans.net/2021/03/04/haas-livery-was-designed-before-russian-flag-ban-was-announced-steiner/

Steiner says the livery was designed before the flag ban.

So, my comment suggesting its blatantly flouting the ban is evidently incorrect.

quokula

Pen Rua wrote: »

I know F1 is about bending rules, finding loopholes etc but this isn't even an F1 rule. This is a punishment from a sport governing body. They can't use Russian flags, but the cars can be blatantly painted like ones. Ridiculous.

The previous ruling explicitly stated that they can use Russian colours, just not an actual Russian flag, so there is no issue here.

Russian drivers in all of the FIA's world championships - including Formula E, WRC, WEC and WRX - will also be prohibited from using national emblems, flags or symbols, as well as the word "Russia" or "Russian".

Drivers will be permitted to call themselves a "neutral athlete from Russia" or be listed as "Russia. Neutral athlete", and use the word "Russia" on any clothing so long as it is given equal prominence to "neutral athlete".

They may also use the acronym RAF, which stands for 'Russian Automobile Federation', and they can still use the colours of the Russian flag.

quokula

barryribs wrote: »

How many sons does Jos Verstappen have? Schumacher, Lauda, Diniz, and Alonso all have something in common. The money gets you to the table and it's down to talent/luck from there, the best drivers will almost always survive and the rest will drive till the money runs out.

Some people start with more advantages than others in every walk of life. At this point its almost a requirement to get into a seat.

Jos Verstappen coached his son hard from a young age, got him practicing and karting constantly, and got him to a point where a serious outfit like Red Bull wanted to pick him up because of his obvious talent.

Obviously not everyone has the advantage of a parent who knows the sport inside out and can afford to fund their karting growing up and has contacts they can put them in touch with.

But that's worlds apart from throwing money at an F1 team to get them to put your son in the car.

lolie

I'll be amazed if Mazepin doesn't buy out Haas this year. It shows how little interest there is of F1 in the USA that he cannot get any American sponsors on the car.

Maybe they'll do a split livery ala Bar in 1999

https://twitter.com/CharlieBass18/status/1367435249119068160

pjohnson

Pen Rua wrote: »

I know F1 is about bending rules, finding loopholes etc but this isn't even an F1 rule. This is a punishment from a sport governing body. They can't use Russian flags, but the cars can be blatantly painted like ones. Ridiculous.

It seems to be from the same book of tricks that Eddie Jordan had for Benson & Hedges I mean Bitten & Hisses and Buzzin Hornets and BE ON EDGE (Benson & Hedges) etc.

Pen Rua

pjohnson wrote: »

Buxton has said the FIA approved it.

While the Russian flag IS explicitly banned theres nothing against "white - blue - red" so yeah not much to be done.

I know F1 is about bending rules, finding loopholes etc but this isn't even an F1 rule. This is a punishment from a sport governing body. They can't use Russian flags, but the cars can be blatantly painted like ones. Ridiculous.

pjohnson

flazio wrote: »

None the less, I reckon there's some scrambling going on behind the scenes to make sure that Mother Haassia livery doesn't make it to Bahrain.

Buxton has said the FIA approved it.

While the Russian flag IS explicitly banned theres nothing against "white - blue - red" so yeah not much to be done.

flazio

None the less, I reckon there's some scrambling going on behind the scenes to make sure that Mother Haassia livery doesn't make it to Bahrain.

barryribs

quokula wrote: »

The difference is that a sponsor chooses to sponsor someone based on the potential they showed coming through the ranks, and there's nothing stopping them switching sponsorship to another driver if they think they have more potential.

Obviously other factors like nationality, media profile etc play into it. But assuming Telmex's criteria were that it was a Mexican, that's still over 120 million people Perex had to compete with to earn that sponsorship. I don't know how many sons Lawrence Stroll had to choose from to put in his F1 team but it's definitely at least 119 million fewer than that.

How many sons does Jos Verstappen have? Schumacher, Lauda, Diniz, and Alonso all have something in common. The money gets you to the table and it's down to talent/luck from there, the best drivers will almost always survive and the rest will drive till the money runs out.

Some people start with more advantages than others in every walk of life. At this point its almost a requirement to get into a seat.

quokula

barryribs wrote: »

F1 has always been like this, its nothing new. People use that as a stick to beat Stroll with, while Perez was forced out of the team. The same Perez who only got a seat through his Telmex sponsorship. Whats the difference between being funded by your father and being funded by a sponsor?

The difference is that a sponsor chooses to sponsor someone based on the potential they showed coming through the ranks, and there's nothing stopping them switching sponsorship to another driver if they think they have more potential.

Obviously other factors like nationality, media profile etc play into it. But assuming Telmex's criteria were that it was a Mexican, that's still over 120 million people Perex had to compete with to earn that sponsorship. I don't know how many sons Lawrence Stroll had to choose from to put in his F1 team but it's definitely at least 119 million fewer than that.

barryribs

ELM327 wrote: »

I do it to be condescending. I find it tiresome that money overrides ability and sometimes character issues. There are drivers out of the sport that should be in it except their seats are taken by wallets.

F1 has always been like this, its nothing new. People use that as a stick to beat Stroll with, while Perez was forced out of the team. The same Perez who only got a seat through his Telmex sponsorship. Whats the difference between being funded by your father and being funded by a sponsor?

ELM327

recyclebin wrote: »

I wish people would stop referring to Daddy Stroll and Daddy Mazepin. It's a bit condescending and tiresome. Strolls wealth looks to be legitimate, not so sure about Mazepin though, not that F1 really cares about ethics too much when money comes calling.

I do it to be condescending. I find it tiresome that money overrides ability and sometimes character issues. There are drivers out of the sport that should be in it except their seats are taken by wallets.

Pen Rua

flazio wrote: »

Didn't they attack Helms Deep under Sarumans White Hand in The Two Towers?

Anyway geeky tendency aside, this could have a knock on effect on Genes other teams couldn’t it? I can't imagine any NASCAR sponsor would want to work with a man who puts a "commie" flag on his F1 team.

Gene Haas was accused of filing false tax returns, witness intimidation, and conspiracy and took a felony conviction from it, spending 16 months in prison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Haas#Criminal_tax_evasion

He seems to be doing alright with that on his back, never mind the Russian involvement.

recyclebin

I wish people would stop referring to Daddy Stroll and Daddy Mazepin. It's a bit condescending and tiresome. Strolls wealth looks to be legitimate, not so sure about Mazepin though, not that F1 really cares about ethics too much when money comes calling.

flazio

Pen Rua wrote: »

Uralkali's corporate colours aren't even close to the Russian flag - they're red & green.

The livery is blatantly a way to skirt the prohibition on Mazepin running under a Russian flag.

Didn't they attack Helms Deep under Sarumans White Hand in The Two Towers?

Anyway geeky tendency aside, this could have a knock on effect on Genes other teams couldn’t it? I can't imagine any NASCAR sponsor would want to work with a man who puts a "commie" flag on his F1 team.

pjohnson

ELM327 wrote: »

Daddy Mazepin probably buys it next year tbh.

I think most were already expecting that. I can see it happening sooner a la Midland/Spyker in 06/07.

Spyker at least waited until midseason when they owned the team to put their livery on the car.

eviltimeban

They'll be at the back of the field anyway, so the only time we'll see it is when one of them is pulling up to the end of the grid before the start, or when they're being lapped.

Pen Rua

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

Sorry, I missed why Marzipan [sic] can't run under the Russian flag...what doping scandal was that?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mazepin-set-to-race-in-f1-under-neutral-flag-after-cas-ruling-5367598/5367598/

The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) announced in December that it had upheld a ban on Russia from competing at world championship sporting events, relating to state-sponsored doping and cover-ups at the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi.

CAS confirmed that it had cut the four-year ban proposed by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to two years, meaning there will be no dedicated Russian team at the upcoming Olympic Games or the next FIFA World Cup in 2022.

The Russian Automobile Federation has now announced that it received clarifications from the FIA concerning the CAS ruling this week, confirming it would impact drivers competing in world championship series.

It means that Mazepin, who will make his F1 debut this year with Haas after stepping up from F2, will be forbidden from racing under the Russian flag for the next two seasons.

Russian drivers in all of the FIA's world championships - including Formula E, WRC, WEC and WRX - will also be prohibited from using national emblems, flags or symbols, as well as the word "Russia" or "Russian".

Drivers will be permitted to call themselves a "neutral athlete from Russia" or be listed as "Russia. Neutral athlete", and use the word "Russia" on any clothing so long as it is given equal prominence to "neutral athlete".

They may also use the acronym RAF, which stands for 'Russian Automobile Federation', and they can still use the colours of the Russian flag.

The decision also forbids the playing of the Russian national anthem at FIA events, meaning it will not be played ahead of the grand prix in Sochi, nor for any Russian victory during the podium ceremony.

Spectators will still be permitted to bring Russian flags into official FIA competitions, while Russian officials are also still permitted to attend sporting events. President Vladimir Putin was a regular guest at the F1 race in Sochi when it was added to the calendar in 2014.

It would appear that Ferrari junior driver Robert Shwartzman will be permitted to still race under the Russian flag in Formula 2 as it is not an FIA world championship, putting it outside of the CAS ruling.

The CAS decision is valid from the initial ruling date, and lasts two years until 16 December 2022.

Charlie-Bravo

Sorry, I missed why Marzipan [sic] can't run under the Russian flag...what doping scandal was that?

ELM327

Daddy Mazepin probably buys it next year tbh.

recyclebin

If that team is still called Haas next season I'd be very surprised. Its Russia written all over it.!

Pen Rua

Uralkali's corporate colours aren't even close to the Russian flag - they're red & green.

The livery is blatantly a way to skirt the prohibition on Mazepin running under a Russian flag.

Pen Rua

https://twitter.com/BrandonSeaber/status/1367397875186081799

I feel for the designer. He designed a nice livery, but just given the context and background, I can't get behind it. He had a spec to work to, and he did. If the colours were different, or more American / less Russian, it would be better.

Rattlehead_ie

Pen Rua wrote: »

Can't race under the flag? Make the car look like it.

Maybe not under the flag, but they never said you cant race IN the flag

Pen Rua

EvnpE_UWYAUs3kb?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

EvnpIWbWYAEWH8Q?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

The front wing is a Russian flag. The order of the colours on the body is the same as the Russian flag.

Mazepin can't race under the Russian flag this year due to the doping scandal, but the country's colours can be used and they've taken the mickey with it. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mazepin-set-to-race-in-f1-under-neutral-flag-after-cas-ruling-5367598/5367598/

Can't race under the flag? Make the car look like it.

AMKC

OSI wrote: »

I wonder where Haas’ money is coming from this year.... ��

https://twitter.com/haasf1team/status/1367386180388593664?s=21

A lot of people not happy with that colour scheme. They are saying it is basically the Russian flag. Not sure how true that is but it does look a bit like that alright. I think it's terrible dull and lacks imagination which is a pity as I thought Haas were all about that.

Rattlehead_ie

Didnt I see somewhere that Haas have already stopped developing the 2021 car and are on the 2022 solely already?

[Deleted User]

Last year's floor still on the Haas.

The first rule I'd like to see changed would be to get rid of the stupid floors. Not sure how it could be worded but unless there's (non-aero) bodywork above then no flat floor allowed. It would decimate the amount of downforce while making the cars looks much better instead of a large flat black surface making the cars look like they were cut out.