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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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superbluedub

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I disagree. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself here. The split is a very real possibility. It was mooted by the gaa already, we both know this. Your mantra of 'it will never happen' sounds more like a guy with his fingers in his ears and eyes closed, chanting over and over again, to hide from reality. The odds of it coming to pass are actually quite high

HMMM and it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that a split is on the cards , again you are entitled to your opinion , nothing will be sorted on Boards.ie thankfully, in my opinion the split is a long way from happening if ever

EICVD

How in gods name is it a national issue? The government should be getting involved if that’s the case, far more important things to worry about than one county being successful

superbluedub

EICVD wrote: »

How in gods name is it a national issue? The government should be getting involved if that’s the case, far more important things to worry about than one county being successful

100%

Garzorico

EICVD wrote: »

How in gods name is it a national issue? The government should be getting involved if that’s the case, far more important things to worry about than one county being successful

I think the poster meant it is a national issue for the GAA.

superbluedub

Garzorico wrote: »

I think the poster meant it is a national issue for the GAA.

i think we all understand what the poster meant , i think you dont understand the reponse;)

TheDalioLama

Garzorico wrote: »

I think the poster meant it is a national issue for the GAA.

Exactly

It's a national issue in terms of the GAA is what was said.

Nobodies comparing it to Covid & Homelesness.

The disprortionate funding argument is an open and shut case at this point. The Leinster chairman is on record acknowledging it's impact on the competition.

I don't know what the solution is, but something radical will need to be done outside of the what is being proposed, or Gaelic football will end up being a cautionary tale for other sporting bodies.

ShyMets

TheDalioLama wrote: »

Exactly

It's a national issue in terms of the GAA is what was said.

Two posters mentioned it as a National Issue. One of the posters I believe meant it in the above context.

Other I suspect was just being a tad hyperbolic

Enquiring

TheDalioLama wrote: »

Exactly

It's a national issue in terms of the GAA is what was said.

Nobodies comparing it to Covid & Homelesness.

The disprortionate funding argument is an open and shut case at this point. The Leinster chairman is on record acknowledging it's impact on the competition.

I don't know what the solution is, but something radical will need to be done outside of the what is being proposed, or Gaelic football will end up being a cautionary tale for other sporting bodies.

You're better off ignoring the deflection.

You're right in saying something radical needs to be done and I think appetite for it is growing. Many are still unaware of just how much funding was pumped into Dublin, the huge effect it had across the board in terms of standards and then the resulting increase in income off the field.

The more this can be publicised, the more the movement for change will gather pace.

rebel girl 15

ShyMets wrote: »

Enquiring. I'll ask one final time. You've stated that this is a national issue. I asked twice what you were personally doing to effect change beyond posting on Boards.

I await your response. Or perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath

I don't think you'll get an answer to this. At least other people who hold a similar opinion are actually doing something about it, besides posting on a discussion forum, though judging by below, not well!

ArielAtom wrote: »

Connellan was schooled, went in ill prepared and was shown up, hence his reticence to bring his motion to congress this year, despite all his guff on Twitter.

When was this? The last thing you want to do when you are trying to get an issue off the ground is to go in ill prepared. You need to know the rulebook and the issue inside out, or you will be shown up. Having been in provincial council meetings and Central Council, if you aren't 100% prepared, you will be found out, unforgivingly. Same when writing appeals, you have to drill into the nitty gritty or they will be chucked out - I'm on 100% success rate so far for that reason.

ooter

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/the-dubs-and-money-q-a-pat-teehan-v-john-connellan-1.4470939?mode=amp

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

In my opinion it's not a national issue. Covid, homeless, drug addiction are national issues.

This is a GAA issue. Enquiring seems very passionate about the issue. I asked what else they were doing because solely posting on Boards won't make a blind bit of difference to future changes in the GAA.

I've been doing nothing forward my views because I don't feel that strongly about it

It is a national issue because it is going to affect the sport across the entire country. Covid, homelessness etc are more serious issues, but nobody said they werent. The reality is this will affect the game across the entire country, hence it is a national issue.

Enquiring is entitled to make his points, the same as you are. This auld spiel of 'well what have you done about it' is a load of disingenuous bs, and generally, the guy making that point is struggling in the argument. That is the reality here, people dont have an answer for him so they go off with petty stuff like that. If the split hinged on this debate, dublin would be split long ago.

Enquiring

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I don't think you'll get an answer to this. At least other people who hold a similar opinion are actually doing something about it, besides posting on a discussion forum, though judging by below, not well!

When was this? The last thing you want to do when you are trying to get an issue off the ground is to go in ill prepared. You need to know the rulebook and the issue inside out, or you will be shown up. Having been in provincial council meetings and Central Council, if you aren't 100% prepared, you will be found out, unforgivingly. Same when writing appeals, you have to drill into the nitty gritty or they will be chucked out - I'm on 100% success rate so far for that reason.

This was when the Leinster council chairman admitted to the financial disparity and agreed that it has decimated the championship.

MayoAreMagic

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I don't think you'll get an answer to this. At least other people who hold a similar opinion are actually doing something about it, besides posting on a discussion forum, though judging by below, not well!

When was this? The last thing you want to do when you are trying to get an issue off the ground is to go in ill prepared. You need to know the rulebook and the issue inside out, or you will be shown up. Having been in provincial council meetings and Central Council, if you aren't 100% prepared, you will be found out, unforgivingly. Same when writing appeals, you have to drill into the nitty gritty or they will be chucked out - I'm on 100% success rate so far for that reason.

I will save you the hassle. He wasnt unprepared. He noted that some of the stats being put to him were not released prior to the debate and stated he therefore couldnt really make arguments against them. Quite an honest approach to be fair. He subsequently found that a lot of them werent actually accurate at all.

Now an objective and reasonable person would very quickly wonder, regardless of your views on this topic, why the gaa would go and do that, and what that says about their honesty on the topic, and by extension, in general.

ShyMets

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is a national issue because it is going to affect the sport across the entire country. Covid, homelessness etc are more serious issues, but nobody said they werent. The reality is this will affect the game across the entire country, hence it is a national issue.

Enquiring is entitled to make his points, the same as you are. This auld spiel of 'well what have you done about it' is a load of disingenuous bs, and generally, the guy making that point is struggling in the argument. That is the reality here, people dont have an answer for him so they go off with petty stuff like that. If the split hinged on this debate, dublin would be split long ago.

Its not a national issue. Its an issue for the GAA to resolve. The Government will not be intervening as they have far more pressing matters at hand.

When someone states this is a national issue then its a perfectly legitimate question to ask what are they doing to bring about change besides posting on Boards. It's also perfectly legitimate for the individual not to answer.

But by not answering that leads to certain assumptions

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

This was when the Leinster council chairman admitted to the financial disparity and agreed that it has decimated the championship.

The same time poor John got schooled. His first reply to Pat Teahans very first statement.

"John Connellan: Well that’s the first I have heard of those figures"

Poor John was so far out of his depth, he could have found Fungie.

JeffKenna

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I will save you the hassle. He wasnt unprepared. He noted that some of the stats being put to him were not released prior to the debate and stated he therefore couldnt really make arguments against them. Quite an honest approach to be fair. He subsequently found that a lot of them werent actually accurate at all.

Now an objective and reasonable person would very quickly wonder, regardless of your views on this topic, why the gaa would go and do that, and what that says about their honesty on the topic, and by extension, in general.

I heard him on the GAA hour this week saying that. It seems a bit underhanded to present previously unpublished information in a situation like that, especially if that information wasn't accurate.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

You're better off ignoring the deflection.

You're right in saying something radical needs to be done and I think appetite for it is growing. Many are still unaware of just how much funding was pumped into Dublin, the huge effect it had across the board in terms of standards and then the resulting increase in income off the field.

The more this can be publicised, the more the movement for change will gather pace.

Based on this thread I really doubt you’re going to get people on the streets for this pet project. You’re numbers have repeatedly been shown to be at best a loose interpretation of the facts, omitting or exaggerating key numbers such as number of coaches or gd spend to drive your argument. The vast level of income available to other counties has been highlighted. The vast additional (non county) spend by the GAA that you omitted has been highlighted. The expansion of the dublin project to rest of Leinster and redistribution of funding across many other counties has been highlighted. The huge numbers and huge increase in numbers of gd resources across rest of Leinster has been highlighted. The contribution of the dublin clubs, which effectively halved the cost of the GAA involvement has been highlighted, as have the unique issues that dublins face. The timings that could not be attributed to the funding have been highlighted as have the inconvenient lack of success in some key areas that don’t tally with the argument.

At this stage it’s actually predictable based on posting over the years in other threads who is left most vigorously banging the split dublin drum, and that group won’t be happy with dublin getting anything ever nor will they ever see any of the problems dublin did and do face. Basically they have no idea of the dublin situation and no interest either.

While most dublin posters have been happy enough to contemplate that the GAA may have made errors through the process in terms of when the expanded the scheme, realistically it was never likely to get it 100% right: a new scheme, trying to address historic problems of wastage and misallocation in gd spend and put better structures in place would always need tuning. A generation growing up between 2003 and 2017 were guinea pigs for this and thankfully for the GAA it went well. Did it make Ciaran Kilkenny or Brian Fenton into the best footballers of their generation, maybe it helped, or maybe it helped offset other disadvantages. Though I think if you asked them they’d tell you most of their early coaching and encouragement was from dedicated parents on a Saturday morning. I’d say they saw even less of the gdo than my kids do given how early in that project that was. But who knows, maybe the time and YouTube videos the gdo made available to the parents helped them coach better, maybe the buzz of their classmates being interested too because someone was visiting the school to show them the skills, maybe that all helped. As I suspect did being around players like the brogans and Cluxton, players who were never in the group of kids that the gd funded looked to nurture. At this stage of their careers though the coaching they get is fairly similar I’d say to what any top player is getting, certainly in the top tier of counties.

The thing is, when they eventually retire with a glut of medals in their pockets they won’t actually care about the bile from a small group of internet posters. Neither will the record books. Nor will the host of great past players who see the skill and commitment they bring- because I’ll guarantee you that the Jack o’Sheas and Pat Spillanes of this world, the guys who’ve actually walked the walk, look at this group of players and know they’ve earned everything they’ve won, fair and square.

MayoAreMagic

dobman88 wrote: »

The same time poor John got schooled. His first reply to Pat Teahans very first statement.

"John Connellan: Well that’s the first I have heard of those figures"

Poor John was so far out of his depth, he could have found Fungie.

That is because they werent released before that.

They werent accurate either...

Enquiring

dobman88 wrote: »

The same time poor John got schooled. His first reply to Pat Teahans very first statement.

"John Connellan: Well that’s the first I have heard of those figures"

Poor John was so far out of his depth, he could have found Fungie.

If the Leinster council chairman had to admit to the effect the funding has had, someone who goes out of his way to defend it, you'd have to take his word for it?

MayoAreMagic

JeffKenna wrote: »

I heard him on the GAA hour this week saying that. It seems a bit underhanded to present previously unpublished information in a situation like that, especially if that information wasn't accurate.

Agreed. I was surprised by that, it is actually hard to fathom that a governing body would do it. If the FA did that they would get in seriously hot water, they are misrepresenting how funds are spent.

dobman88

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is because they werent released before that.

They werent accurate either...

John should have requested the figures if he was really investigating the issue. The fact that Teahan agreed to hand them over to him for a proper look shows he would have been successful in requesting them. Very poor by John tbf.

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

If the Leinster council chairman had to admit to the effect the funding has had, someone who goes out of his way to defend it, you'd have to take his word for it?

Of course. He's the one person who would know. I'd take his word over what you're saying here every day of the week.

MayoAreMagic

ShyMets wrote: »

Its not a national issue. Its an issue for the GAA to resolve. The Government will not be intervening as they have far more pressing matters at hand.

When someone states this is a national issue then its a perfectly legitimate question to ask what are they doing to bring about change besides posting on Boards. It's also perfectly legitimate for the individual not to answer.

But by not answering that leads to certain assumptions

An issue for the gaa - at a national level. Nobody mentioned government intervention, except yourself.
However, it should be pointed out that the government did intervene in the past. Bertie ahern intervened to help create the dublin province we now have.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Based on this thread I really doubt you’re going to get people on the streets for this pet project. You’re numbers have repeatedly been shown to be at best a loose interpretation of the facts, omitting or exaggerating key numbers such as number of coaches or gd spend to drive your argument. The vast level of income available to other counties has been highlighted. The vast additional (non county) spend by the GAA that you omitted has been highlighted. The expansion of the dublin project to rest of Leinster and redistribution of funding across many other counties has been highlighted. The huge numbers and huge increase in numbers of gd resources across rest of Leinster has been highlighted. The contribution of the dublin clubs, which effectively halved the cost of the GAA involvement has been highlighted, as have the unique issues that dublins face. The timings that could not be attributed to the funding have been highlighted as have the inconvenient lack of success in some key areas that don’t tally with the argument.

On the contrary, I have provided official accounts to back up the figures I produced. These show that Dublin have received millions more in games development funding over the past 2 decades and now have a yearly income of 5 or 6 million more than most counties. Furiously googling other counties reports and trying to fiddle the numbers is not going to have an impact on these facts. And these facts back up why Dublin should be split.

Enquiring

dobman88 wrote: »

Of course. He's the one person who would know. I'd take his word over what you're saying here every day of the week.

So you agree that the championship has been decimated due to the over funding of Dublin?

Tombo2001

Chatting to my son about it the other day, we had a great idea.

A condition is put in that where the Dubs win the regular all Ireland, they then - to reflect the inherent advantage of size - have to play a super all-ireland final where they play an all-star team made of the best players of all the other counties.

If they beat that team then there truly can be no argument.

And if they lose, then the winner is marked as AllStars rather than any one county.

It would be some craic.

And it would give an opportunity to the likes of an Eamonn O'Hara or Matty Forde to win an all ireland that might normally have no chance.

MayoAreMagic

dobman88 wrote: »

John should have requested the figures if he was really investigating the issue. The fact that Teahan agreed to hand them over to him for a proper look shows he would have been successful in requesting them. Very poor by John tbf.

But the figures werent accurate. It seems they deliberately cooked up different figures specifically for the discussion, for the sole purpose of stifling it.
If you go into a court case and make up a cock and bull story involving figments of your imagination, the court is adjourned until said figments can be investigated further. I dont see how he could have been better prepared for that, short of reading the guys mind...

dobman88

Enquiring wrote: »

So you agree that the championship has been decimated due to the over funding of Dublin?

"The Championship". Lol.

The Leinster championship, yes. Same as Teahan admitted to. Also, that imbalance is being addressed by funding Meath and Kildare now. Maybe a couple of others I'm not aware of.

Do you always have to try and twist everything to suit your narrative, it really dents whatever little credibility you had.

MayoAreMagic

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Chatting to my son about it the other day, we had a great idea.

A condition is put in that where the Dubs win the regular all Ireland, they then - to reflect the inherent advantage of size - have to play a super all-ireland final where they play an all-star team made of the best players of all the other counties.

If they beat that team then there truly can be no argument.

And if they lose, then the winner is marked as AllStars rather than any one county.

It would be some craic.

And it would give an opportunity to the likes of an Eamonn O'Hara or Matty Forde to win an all ireland that might normally have no chance.

Or just play it without them, and then let the dublin province play in the railway cup...

ArielAtom

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I don't think you'll get an answer to this. At least other people who hold a similar opinion are actually doing something about it, besides posting on a discussion forum, though judging by below, not well!

When was this? The last thing you want to do when you are trying to get an issue off the ground is to go in ill prepared. You need to know the rulebook and the issue inside out, or you will be shown up. Having been in provincial council meetings and Central Council, if you aren't 100% prepared, you will be found out, unforgivingly. Same when writing appeals, you have to drill into the nitty gritty or they will be chucked out - I'm on 100% success rate so far for that reason.

Connellan went into an online debate a few weeks back with the Leinster Chairman, in the course of it, he stated he did not know that a number of times, he was ill prepared and didn't have the required data to enable a meaningful conversation.