glasso wrote: » In light of the outcome for Sweden and the abandoning of its initial policy.
sheepysheep wrote: » We are indeed. We are now nearing the end of the pandemic hopefully and despite dire predictions Sweden's strategy has been distinctly more successful than predicted. Nowhere near the forecast 140k excess deaths. Here is the economist report again.https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker It clearly shows the results for excess deaths for Sweden per 100k of population for this period is 94. And it clearly shows that this figure betters Bulgaria, Lithuania, Russia, Poland, Belgium, Britain, Spain, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Portugal, Hungary, Netherlands, Italy, Austria and France. A total of 15 countries.Even you have not denied that in comparison to the rest of Europe Sweden has done remarkable well.The only real issue remaining is whether or not this comparison to the rest of Europe is legitimate or not. Should Sweden only be compared to Northern Europe? Here is A detailed EU report on the state of the health of the EU citizenry.https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/he...nce_rep_en.pdf And here are some of the categories where all EU 27 are compared with each other statistically. Trends in life expectancy Inequalities in life expectancy Healthy life expectancy at birth and at age 65 Main causes of mortality Mortality from circulatory diseases Mortality from cancer Mortality from respiratory diseases Infant health Self-reported health and disability Notified cases of vaccine-preventable diseases New reported cases of HIV and tuberculosis Cancer incidence Diabetes prevalence Dementia prevalence Smoking among children Smoking among adults Alcohol consumption among children Alcohol consumption among adults Illicit drug consumption among children Illicit drug consumption among adults Obesity among children Obesity among adults Mortality due to air pollution and extreme weather conditions . Avoidable mortality (preventable and amenable) Childhood vaccinations Patient experience with ambulatory care Mortality following acute myocardial infarction (AMI) Mortality following stroke Waiting times for hip fracture surgery Screening, survival and mortality for cervical cancer Screening, survival and mortality for breast cancer Survival and mortality for colorectal cancer Late-diagnosed HIV and tuberculosis treatment outcomes Healthcare-associated infections Unmet health care needs Financial burden of out-of-pocket expenditure Population coverage for health care Extent of health care coverage Availability of doctors Availability of nurses Consultations with doctors Availability and use of diagnostic technologies Hospital beds and discharges Waiting times for elective surgery Cancers alone compared include, Breast, Respiratory, Kidney, Gastrointestinal, Reproductive organs, Bladder, Ovary, Uterus and cervical, Lung, Larynx, pharynx, Thyroid, Prostate, Rectum, Pancreas, Stomach, liver, anus, Colon, Testis, vulva, Skin They're also all compared on Science and Technology, Environment and Energy, Transport, Foreign Trade, Agriculture Forestry and Fisheries, Social issues, Living Conditions and Labour Market in other reports.Now, I cite this report as overwhelming evidence that as Sweden is regularly compared with everyone else on this huge number of diseases and issues, there is no substantive reason why Sweden should not be compared to all of Europe regarding covid-19. I think we can all assume that covid-19 will most certainly be included in the next one published or the one after.If you have any science based evidence to refute this argument please provide it and let the science talk. Otherwise the only logical conclusion is that you only have your opinion and that you are contesting this EU report based on your opinion only.
the incredible pudding wrote: » It's really not that different than what was in place back last April tbh, other than being able to stay out in a pub past 8pm and only smaller gatherings of folks being allowed out in restaurants.
Ginger n Lemon wrote: » Unfortunately you speak the truth that isnt welcome in this thread. But if you'd like to call Tegnell a granny killer you ll fit right in.
the incredible pudding wrote: » Which figures are you explicitly using for your point here? There's not really a very significant change from last late-March - April to now on any of those figures that I can see (though the graph is quite noisy tbf). There's the expected spike in the summer when the weather was fantastic, people take long holidays and statistically things were far, far better anyhow. The other large dip is for the Christmas holidays were folks routinely take 4 weeks off here too. There's been snow this last week so most folks are just in their local parks with their kids sledding down hills. Transit is a bit less busy as folks are being urged to avoid rush hour but anytime I've been out in Stockholm Central it's still busy enough tbh. I would hope that folks are eating out less, they are being asked to do so but it's not like you can't do it. We've been asked to limit our contacts since last spring, they're just asking more sternly now. I still walk past the restaurant on the way to my girlfriend's every other day and it's nearly always around half full (they are at least doing a good job of distancing the tables).
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Sweden took an economic hit last year with a higher death toll than necessary because their people effectively implemented a lockdown by personal choice. In contrast, Ireland had the strongest economic growth in the EU. Damn Swedes must be very cold...
TonyMaloney wrote: » Actually what your man said doesn't really check out. I'm not calling him a liar, he might well be giving an honest account as he sees it. However the google mobility data says that not only are the Swedes acting significantly more safely than back in the early days of the pandemic, they've been doing so for a prolonged period of time that we've never seen from them before.
Ginger n Lemon wrote: » Google mobility data? Is this a new fetish now or? I suppose Google says so so it must be right?
Sweden has warned that it might have to close businesses and shut down parts of society as unease grows in Stockholm at the possibility of a third wave of the Covid-19 pandemic. The centre-left government on Wednesday put forward a proposal that for the first time would allow it to close shopping centres, gyms, and restaurants and to fine those who fail to obey the rules SKr2,000 ($240). “There is a significant risk of a third wave of infection . . . It can be necessary to shut down parts of Sweden,” said social minister Lena Hallengren. The country, which stood out internationally because of its refusal to introduce a lockdown, has since December brought in more and more restrictions. Coronavirus cases per capita have ticked up again in recent days, following repeated warnings from health authorities that a third wave was likely. The number of cases and deaths per capita remain far above the highest levels recorded in neighbouring Norway and Finland. Infections are increasing in six of Sweden’s 18 regions with a particularly sharp rise linked to the construction of a large electric battery factory in the north of the country
Boggles wrote: » Central Sweden confirms cluster outbreak of coronavirus variant first found in South AfricaCoronavirus: Western Swedish region steps up face mask recommendations to curb new outbreaks Even Tegnell is worried.
Doctors warn that Covid will become endemic and people need to learn to live with it Sam Meredith 5 days ago Fact check: Trump surgeon general initially dismissed mask-wearing, but then… Proud Boy’s attorneys argue Trump to blame for deadly Capitol insurrection More and more physicians and public health officials are warning that even with the mass rollout of vaccines, Covid may become endemic.
Bit cynical wrote: » Quick update on daily deaths compared to the EU as a whole. Sweden were above the EU average for deaths until about early August of last when EU deaths started to overtake them. This situation continued and by the start of the year the EU as a whole had more deaths per capita than Sweden. In the new year, Sweden did have a surge and for a time had more daily deaths than the EU but in the last week or so Sweden's rate has dropped considerably. This means that although Sweden have been edging ahead cumulative deaths (see below) recently, the EU is likely to catch up in the next few weeks and in the end will probably end up with more deaths per capita than Sweden.
TonyMaloney wrote: » I'll just point out that Sweden are in the EU. The EU line wouldn't be so steep if you removed the Swedish data.
TonyMaloney wrote: » There's so much wrong here that I can't allow myself the time to get into it all. I'll just point out that Sweden are in the EU. The EU line wouldn't be so steep if you removed the Swedish data.
sheepysheep wrote: » Sweden isn't in the EU. It's in 'The Scandinavia,' apparently one of the most unusual and incomparable regions on the planet.
sheepysheep wrote: » Sweden isn't in the EU apparently. It's in 'The Scandinavia,' by all accounts one of the most unusual and incomparable regions on the planet.
Bit cynical wrote: » It is not in the Eurozone but it is in the EU. I agree with point about the Scandinavia. Critics were happy enough with comparisons between Sweden and the EU as a whole early on when it suited them. It was really only when the EU started to catch up with Sweden in deaths per capita that critics moved on to comparisons with countries with the lowest deaths, such as Finland. Because Sweden had higher deaths than the very lowest in the EU, their policy (in the view of critics) had failed. Equally invalid is comparing Sweden to the highest deaths countries like Belgium but this is comparatively rare. The fairest is comparing Sweden to the larger free movement bloc, the EU.
Arghus wrote: » Sweden has been in The EU since 1995.
Bit cynical wrote: » If that is the main objection then it is easily dismissed. Such comparisons of a part to the whole are common and perfectly valid e.g. the murder rate for a particular US state vs the murder rate for the US as a whole.
charlie14 wrote: » To do a comparison of those US states then would you not require a certain level of commonality for it to be comparible ? Gun control restrictions have a bearing on firearm fatalities and homicides. A University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine report published by The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery March 6th 2019 found that ten of the states with the most restrictive gun control laws were in the Northeast. Seven of the ten had the lowest overall US firearm fatalities and homicides. Connecticut was lowest being bordered by three of the other nine. In the Economist report posted here they did not regard European countries on a one fits all basis. They recognised the different geographical areas and severity of the virus going eastwards in Europe, and compared excess Covid deaths on those commonalities. From that they noted that for Northern Europe Sweden`s excess deaths were an exception.
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