Random EV thoughts.....

JohnC. wrote: »

But how is it relevant? It's a different, non-EV car. The EV, which people are more likely to talk about on an EV forum, got 5 stars. But you decided to talk about something else because of a nonsensical bee in your bonnet. Even your precious "made in America" cars use Chinese parts, including safety parts, before you decide to say again that you don't drive a phone.

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.

MJohnston wrote: »

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.

It's pronounced "Made in AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :pac:

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

I've often wondered why non-Americans are so attached to the "Made in America" label anyway.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It's pronounced "Made in AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :pac:

I love american cars and have owned many of them here. It's an interest of mine.

But it's not that here, as in. it's not "made in america" that I want, so much as "Made in NA or EU, or Japan", for personal reasons. I respect that this is possibly irrational and seems to rumble some people the wrong way, but I will never drive a china made car.

Yeah I guess my point is that "Made in America" is an extremely different set of standards (and generally lower ones) than "Made in EU", to the point where "Made in America" is probably closer to "Made in China" from EU standards. But then if something is being legally, openly sold in the EU, it probably adheres and is checked against EU standards anyway :shrugs:

Markcheese

https://youtu.be/DFCjQjAirDI

It's called a zafira but it's just an electric opel vivaro passenger van ..
No idea how much it costs in Ireland though ..
( Well the cargo version with the smaller battery 50kw battery is about e 36000, ) I assume that's 12 or so grand dearer that the standard vivaro ..

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah I guess my point is that "Made in America" is an extremely different set of standards (and generally lower ones) than "Made in EU", to the point where "Made in America" is probably closer to "Made in China" from EU standards. But then if something is being legally, openly sold in the EU, it probably adheres and is checked against EU standards anyway :shrugs:

Yeah I don't get it either, I can't trust anything that was designed in imperial units

ELM327 wrote: »

I love american cars and have owned many of them here. It's an interest of mine.

But it's not that here, as in. it's not "made in america" that I want, so much as "Made in NA or EU, or Japan", for personal reasons. I respect that this is possibly irrational and seems to rumble some people the wrong way, but I will never drive a china made car.

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

That's their choice and whilst I dont agree with it, I woudlnt be spending time on the internet trying to convince them otherwise!

Article on RTE about used car imports from UK

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

Interesting bit there about how the UK government is basically not charging VAT on used cars being imported into NI. I wonder is there an opening there for traders to import a car into the UK, claim the UK VAT back, and then export to Ireland

Even with the import taxes and VAT, you could still get a car cheaper than Rip-off Ireland

ELM327 wrote: »

That's their choice and whilst I dont agree with it, I woudlnt be spending time on the internet trying to convince them otherwise!

Yes, I agree, I was just making the point that there are reasons people don't want to buy from certain manufacturers/countries etc.

That's their choice.

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Article on RTE about used car imports from UK

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

Interesting bit there about how the UK government is basically not charging VAT on used cars being imported into NI. I wonder is there an opening there for traders to import a car into the UK, claim the UK VAT back, and then export to Ireland

Even with the import taxes and VAT, you could still get a car cheaper than Rip-off Ireland

Didn't realise they re introduced the margin thing on the VAT.

Interesting loophole, and if they can be exported then without vat. Then it's not getting hit with double the VAT. And maybe duty if it's not uk made.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

Early Chinese cars were, cola cans on wheels and crushed just as easily.
These days they actually make them to the required standards.
There was an entire generation of British (maybe also Australians) people who would never touch a Japanese car, or anything Japanese because of their experiences during WWII.
Some people have similar feelings towards modern day China for what they are doing WRT human rights, or their overtly aggressive business style which has (with government support) undermined western industries by playing to the greed of western traders.

My father told me when he bought his first Datsun here in I think 1973 that a lot of his friends didn't approve. A few years later though it was all forgotten about when they became popular.

I personally would not buy a Chinese car, even if they were cheaper. Fortunately I have the choice.

silverharp

the Chinese are still running concentration camps, On a big ticket item like a car I certainly wouldnt buy one from a Chinese owned company

graememk wrote: »

Didn't realise they re introduced the margin thing on the VAT.

Interesting loophole, and if they can be exported then without vat. Then it's not getting hit with double the VAT. And maybe duty if it's not uk made.

I was looking into this a bit, and you can avoid the double VAT if the car was previously owned by a company and had the VAT reclaimed already. I don't think you need to import via NI in this case

If the car was registered to a private individual however then you can't reclaim the VAT, that's the tricky part

I suppose you could always keep an eye out for dealership cars, they often seem to sell them after a year and will have fairly low mileage and be well maintained

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I was looking into this a bit, and you can avoid the double VAT if the car was previously owned by a company and had the VAT reclaimed already. I don't think you need to import via NI in this case

If the car was registered to a private individual however then you can't reclaim the VAT, that's the tricky part

I suppose you could always keep an eye out for dealership cars, they often seem to sell them after a year and will have fairly low mileage and be well maintained

Lease companies might be claiming the vat back too.

Only have to pay the vat on the lower value after the lease ends*

**Complete speculation

eagerv wrote: »

......

I personally would not buy a Chinese car, even if they were cheaper. Fortunately I have the choice.

silverharp wrote: »

the Chinese are still running concentration camps, On a big ticket item like a car I certainly wouldnt buy one from a Chinese owned company

Nothing wrong with some ethics and morals.
I try to minimise my Chinese made purchases and also wouldn't support the UAE in any form, be it holidaying or working there.
Westerners are complicit in lots of nasty sh1t.

Augeo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with some ethics and morals.
I try to minimise my Chinese made purchases and also wouldn't support the UAE in any form, be it holidaying or working there.
Westerners are complicit in lots of nasty sh1t.

This is literally impossible. You can avoid buying direct from China or UAE, or even buying products "Made in" those countries, but if you're buying American, for example, you can be certain lots of your purchase money is going to those countries directly and indirectly.

And, to be clear, I think it's a very laudable goal to avoid unethical products, I definitely try to do it myself as much as possible. But I'm just pointing out the difficulty of doing so when US affairs, in particular, have been so intertwined with fairly hideous state actors.

MJohnston wrote: »

And, to be clear, I think it's a very laudable goal to avoid unethical products, I definitely try to do it myself as much as possible. But I'm just pointing out the difficulty of doing so when US affairs, in particular, have been so intertwined with fairly hideous state actors.

I suppose there's also the questions of state behaviour vs individual/corporate behaviour. I didn't agree with a lot of what the previous US government did, but I don't believe that blame should be shared by everyone in the US (except the my pillow guy :pac:)

It's more clear cut in China because there is basically no private enterprise there, all large companies are essentially controlled by the state. So buying from Chinese companies is somewhat indirectly supporting the Chinese government

Having said all that, while I try to buy from ethical sources, it's pretty difficult since essentially all consumer electronics are made in China

MJohnston wrote: »

This is literally impossible. You can avoid buying direct from China or UAE, or even buying products "Made in" those countries, but if you're buying American, for example, you can be certain lots of your purchase money is going to those countries directly and indirectly.

Yes, I am aware.
I did specify "be it holidaying or working there".
As you say it's impossible not to have some of my cash going there but I won't go there on holiday and I'd never work there despite it being a huge pocket liner etc etc.

Sustainability etc is important to me.

In reduce, reuse recycle terms I try and do lots of reduce, as much reuse as possible and my recycling is done realising it's not great

I save more than I spend.

liamog

Mod Note: Removed the conversations re Chinese manufacturing of vaccines, this is the EV forum and a topic for other EV related news, can we bring it back to a relevant discussion please.

Liberalbrehon

Take a look at this beauty
Not EV but hydrogen fuel cell.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOdLgRSjUazWwuip0NSqEV0qGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqqOUCzCc4KkDMPqRxAY?hl=de&gl=DE&ceid=DE%3Ade

translate to english needed.

timsey tiger

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

Take a look at this beauty
Not EV but hydrogen fuel cell.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOdLgRSjUazWwuip0NSqEV0qGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqqOUCzCc4KkDMPqRxAY?hl=de&gl=DE&ceid=DE%3Ade

translate to english needed.

Oh! no fool cell tirade eminent. Nice, really looks like a chiron.

MarkN

Had a look at new Mokka e this week! Very good interior. 50kWh battery - on sale April.

Mod Note: Moved the rest of the photos and MarkN's video to the Mokka-E thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115254699

ELM327

So, I reckon once this lockdown is finished, my plans are pretty set.

unkel

Ready when you are, tiger!

McGiver

Liberalbrehon wrote:

Take a look at this beauty Not EV but hydrogen fuel cell.

I can do mediocre German, can read articles at least.

On the same website there's another article:

Warten auf das Wasserstoff-Auto: Darum hat die Technik keine Chance gegen Akkus

Translates as:

Waiting for the hydrogen car - that's why this technology stands no chance against the batteries

I don't need to say more

Edit: apart from all the usual issues with H2 and FC, they're making an excellent point at the end of the article, that basically using H2 for FC is a total waste.

Hydrogen can and must have a completely different career: For example, the gas that was generated when renewable electricity was overproduced can be used directly in steel smelting, where it can replace coal. The potential for CO2 savings per kilogram of hydrogen used is much greater than with fuel cell cars, and the technical effort involved is relatively low. Similar processes could be developed for cement production. In the end, it might even make sense to put excess electricity in stationary systems with very large tanks for hydrogen production and to burn the gas in gas turbines with combined heat and power in the event of an electricity shortage. The efficiency of such systems is far higher than that of a fuel cell car - and the electricity generated with them could charge electric cars with batteries.

Markcheese

Is tesla's great advantage in ev tech not such a big deal for other car makers after all ..
I was looking at psa electric line up , they have 1 electric drivetrain .. so the 208, the 2008, all the way up to the e zafira and e-expert van ,
It's the same set up for all of them .. ( they may offer bigger motors in the future ,and you can get a bigger battery with some but it the same set up ..
And most people never buy the best / fastest/ most efficient car anyway , they just buy something that suits them ,that they like and is middle of the pack ....
So you could pretty much buy an off the shelf powertrain and software ,slot it in and tune the suspension to suit .. no massive r and d budget , no years and years of development .
(And I get that car companies have been doing that for years now , bmw buying peugeot diesels and mercedes fitting renault ones ) , but they were still mating it to their gear box, and tweaking cooling/ turbos/ emissions controls ..

Markcheese wrote: »

Is tesla's great advantage in ev tech not such a big deal for other car makers after all ..
I was looking at psa electric line up , they have 1 electric drivetrain .. so the 208, the 2008, all the way up to the e zafira and e-expert van ,
It's the same set up for all of them .. ( they may offer bigger motors in the future ,and you can get a bigger battery with some but it the same set up ..
And most people never buy the best / fastest/ most efficient car anyway , they just buy something that suits them ,that they like and is middle of the pack ....
So you could pretty much buy an off the shelf powertrain and software ,slot it in and tune the suspension to suit .. no massive r and d budget , no years and years of development .
(And I get that car companies have been doing that for years now , bmw buying peugeot diesels and mercedes fitting renault ones ) , but they were still mating it to their gear box, and tweaking cooling/ turbos/ emissions controls ..

Tesla's biggest advantage is having the largest rapid charging network exclusive to Tesla