FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So it's not the politicians, we vote for that are the donkeys then is it, its us?

That is one possible interpretation, however it is not my interpretation.

My interpretation is that we are a good little country despite being lead by the donkeys who are offered to us by the political parties who have dominated since the formation of the State.
I look forward to the day then those political parties no longer dominate and we have genuine choice in every constituency in the country.

Gosh, people do seem to be looking for a fight today. Sorry, can't oblige. Have better things to do.

McMurphy wrote: »

Oh please.

As an Irish person I couldn't give a fùck what someone refers to "our national flower" as, and to suggest it's "insulting Irish people" is, well, quite frankly looking for something to be outraged by.

I'd bet you take all the yanks referring to our patrons Saint day "Saint patty's day" with equal shock horror.

Pearl clutcher extraordinaire.

Who is outraged? asking someone to show a little respect and you head off on a little rant again.

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

If we are looking into parties pasts then what are the alternatives? None of the current parties have a clean past do you not agree?

Ah it's the "we have no choice but to accept the donkeys as they are all jackasses anyway" argument.

People used to say the same kind of things about Absolute Monarchs.

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That is one possible interpretation, however it is not my interpretation.

My interpretation is that we are a good little country despite being lead by the donkeys who are offered to us by the political parties who have dominated since the formation of the State.
I look forward to the day then those political parties no longer dominate and we have genuine choice in every constituency in the country.

Gosh, people do seem to be looking for a fight today. Sorry, can't oblige. Have better things to do.

So who is your answer to that?

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Who is outraged? asking someone to show a little respect and you head off on a little rant again.

Surprised your lot weren't calling for a new emblem , with the Shamrocks Christian connotations and association with Leprechauns,

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah it's the "we have no choice but to accept the donkeys as they are all jackasses anyway" argument.

People used to say the same kind of things about Absolute Monarchs.

I refer to your post which picked the past of a few parties. The post was made to say people are stupid to vote for those parties because of their past.
The fact is all parties have a bad past do you not agree?
So in that case people vote for the policies the parties plan to implement

McMurphy

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Who is outraged? asking someone to show a little respect and you head off on a little rant again.

So you're not outraged, you're just claiming Irish people (circa five million of us) were insulted by what a poster referred to a shamrock as?

Grand - over dramatic? Pearl clutching?

Carry on.

RandomViewer wrote: »

Surprised your lot weren't calling for a new emblem , with the Shamrocks Christian connotations and association with Leprechauns,

Yes a proud Irish person is my "lot". You think it is just a "side salad" so do you not want it changed?

Bubbaclaus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Have the electorate continually voted for parties who engaged in boom/bust economic followed by austerity policies? Check.
Has the electorate voted for TDs based on their party/surname? Check.
Did the electorate vote for Haughey, Ahern, Burke, Lowry, etc etc? Check.
Has the electorate continued to vote for the parties who oversaw Magdalene Laundries, Industrial Schools, Mother and Baby Homes, spiralling homelessness, Healthcare crises, the Banking crash, etc etc etc? Check.

The evidence would suggest there exists a significant cogitative deficiency in a section of the electorate but go ahead and get insulted on their collective behalf if you wish, beats being insulted on behalf of a mutant clover.

TLDR: People that vote for parties you don't like have a "significant cogitative deficiency" (in layman terms they are stupid).

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Yes a proud Irish person is my "lot". You think it is just a "side salad" so do you not want it changed?

Its not something that takes up much of my time, if you are so delicate about random greenery you must be a complete nightmare on run of the mill stuff, peas ,carrots and spuds on a plate must send you into a fit,
Look at the tack surrounding St. Patrick's day, plastic Chinese shamrocks everywhere,
you're lot are the FF revisionists

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

TLDR: People that vote for parties you don't like have a "significant cogitative deficiency" (in layman terms they are stupid).

Except that is not what I said.
A more correct interpretation would be they they have a pre-conditioned blindspot where they cannot see there is an alternative.

The evidence is contained within this very thread - I am being asked who is my answer.

I have said many many times I am a soc dem voter. I am not going to get into a discussion about hurlers on the ditch, they are frit of being in govt, what have they ever done for the simple reason I have been there and done that in this very thread many times and if people want answers they can search my posts.
I am not telling people to vote for them. I am saying I vote for them having looked at their policies, voting record, and Private Member's Bill introduced.

For decades we had a "if it's not FF it must be FG with the LP there as a pseudo 3rd option"
That has mutated now to where anyone who criticises the FG/FF uneasy bedfellow arrangement is dismissed as a "shinner", and any criticism is dismissed out of hand.

I did not say the electorate is stupid - but I am saying the above is not only stupid, it's childish, and very dangerous for our country. Govt's have to be held to account.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Except that is not what I said.
A more correct interpretation would be they they have a pre-conditioned blindspot where they cannot see there is an alternative.

The evidence is contained within this very thread - I am being asked who is my answer.

I have said many many times I am a soc dem voter. I am not going to get into a discussion about hurlers on the ditch, they are frit of being in govt, what have they ever done for the simple reason I have been there and done that in this very thread many times and if people want answers they can search my posts.
I am not telling people to vote for them. I am saying I vote for them having looked at their policies, voting record, and Private Member's Bill introduced.

For decades we had a "if it's not FF it must be FG with the LP there as a pseudo 3rd option"
That has mutated now to where anyone who criticises the FG/FF uneasy bedfellow arrangement is dismissed as a "shinner", and any criticism is dismissed out of hand.

I did not say the electorate is stupid - but I am saying the above is not only stupid, it's childish, and very dangerous for our country. Govt's have to be held to account.

All political parties have to be held to account. Picking and choosing who you want to hold accountable is very very dangerous.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

How many empty unaffordable apartments are out there?

You seem to have misunderstood. They said they don't support building apartments people can't afford.

I'm not doing your sideline research for you. Sure just say 'Margret Cash' and leave it there Bish.

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

So if SF built 200,000 apartments which are affordable in Naas, Navan or Enfield then everyone would be happy?

No.

Floppybits

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

All political parties have to be held to account. Picking and choosing who you want to hold accountable is very very dangerous.

Exactly they do all need to be held to account but FF and FG don't agree with that and you so can see that in the behavior in the Dail and also in the behavior of their members and supporters. We see it time and time again on here people defending the indefensible, examples of this the Storey funeral, the Varadkar leaking confidential documents and the appointment of Woulfe to the supreme court. It was shocking to see people tying themselves up in knots to defend these and in an ideal world we would see both SF and FG take a hit at the ballot box and Varadkar should have been sacked. The reason I didn't include Cowen and Callerly was because action was taken against those people.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

MM intends to go to Washington for St Patrick's day. I mean I find the whole thing embarrassing anyway but going during lockdown is just ridiculous. Zoom call the f*cker, it's not like JB isn't enamoured with Ireland anyway.

TBF, MM is only doing this FF/FG thing for the position and all the glory that goes with it. Of course he's going. No doubt LV won't be outdone either.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So the electorate are stupid, at least that's my read of that post?

You should read what folk say about people didn't vote for FF/FG; not normal, knuckle draggers, scum etc.
TBF, 'donkeys' is based on their poor governance and that can easily be defended.

PETA stated today they want people to stop using animals as slurs as it's 'speciest'. I kid you not.

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

All political parties have to be held to account. Picking and choosing who you want to hold accountable is very very dangerous.

Just so we are on the same page here - are you looking to pick a fight or being obtuse?

Any party blah blah is all well and good but the fact is that parties in opposition are not running the blasted country.
None of them bar one has ever been involved in running the country so cannot be held accountable for the shambles those who were running the country (and still are) have made of things both in the far past, recent past, and present.

We have gotten used to, and enabled, a system where there was no effective opposition for decades as we had govt by rota. Bust followed boom as sure as lockdown follows opening up to level 3 7/8ths - gastro pubs only and the golf is back stay in your own county unless you are essentially going on holiday.

Now it seems me we must hold SF to account for everything they have ever ever said/done/thought even if it happened/happens in a different jurisdiction but neither FF or FG must be held to account for anything, not crashing the economy, not Austerity, not the healthcare crises, not homelessness, not for the thousands dead with Covid, not for the Vaccine confusion. Nothing. is. their. fault.

I have no issue with calling SF to account - but they ain't running the country right now and I think it is their job, along with all opposition parties, to call the govt to account - and that bloody govt should stop spinning, stop pointing the finger, stop acting the arrogant maggot, and treat the parliamentary process with the respect it deserves.

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Just so we are on the same page here - are you looking to pick a fight or being obtuse?

Any party blah blah is all well and good but the fact is that parties in opposition are not running the blasted country.
None of them bar one has ever been involved in running the country so cannot be held accountable for the shambles those who were running the country (and still are) have made of things both in the far past, recent past, and present.

We have gotten used to, and enabled, a system where there was no effective opposition for decades as we had govt by rota. Bust followed boom as sure as lockdown follows opening up to level 3 7/8ths - gastro pubs only and the golf is back stay in your own county unless you are essentially going on holiday.

Now it seems me we must hold SF to account for everything they have ever ever said/done/thought even if it happened/happens in a different jurisdiction but neither FF or FG must be held to account for anything, not crashing the economy, not Austerity, not the healthcare crises, not homelessness, not for the thousands dead with Covid, not for the Vaccine confusion. Nothing. is. their. fault.

I have no issue with calling SF to account - but they ain't running the country right now and I think it is their job, along with all opposition parties, to call the govt to account - and that bloody govt should stop spinning, stop pointing the finger, stop acting the arrogant maggot, and treat the parliamentary process with the respect it deserves.

Blah blah blah.

Brendan Bendar

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Blah blah blah.

I’ll add another one

blah blah blah blah.

Complete rubbish.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Just so we are on the same page here - are you looking to pick a fight or being obtuse?

Any party blah blah is all well and good but the fact is that parties in opposition are not running the blasted country.
None of them bar one has ever been involved in running the country so cannot be held accountable for the shambles those who were running the country (and still are) have made of things both in the far past, recent past, and present.

We have gotten used to, and enabled, a system where there was no effective opposition for decades as we had govt by rota. Bust followed boom as sure as lockdown follows opening up to level 3 7/8ths - gastro pubs only and the golf is back stay in your own county unless you are essentially going on holiday.

Now it seems me we must hold SF to account for everything they have ever ever said/done/thought even if it happened/happens in a different jurisdiction but neither FF or FG must be held to account for anything, not crashing the economy, not Austerity, not the healthcare crises, not homelessness, not for the thousands dead with Covid, not for the Vaccine confusion. Nothing. is. their. fault.

I have no issue with calling SF to account - but they ain't running the country right now and I think it is their job, along with all opposition parties, to call the govt to account - and that bloody govt should stop spinning, stop pointing the finger, stop acting the arrogant maggot, and treat the parliamentary process with the respect it deserves.

Why would I want to start a fight. As I said all parties should be held to account, not just criticise one party while ignoring another failings. Would you not agree?

You mentioned SF so will take them as an example.
One minute they want to remember their history, next minute they don't want anyone to bring up their history
One minute they want to show how great they are in north, next minute we have to say it doesn't count because it is a different jurisdiction.

It is one or the other. Flip flopping to suit the discussion doesn't really work does it?

No idea why you think I said the current government should not be held to account? I never said that once

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’ll add another one

blah blah blah blah.

Complete rubbish.

Who let Mattie loose?

Floppybits

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Why would I want to start a fight. As I said all parties should be held to account, not just criticise one party while ignoring another failings. Would you not agree?

You mentioned SF so will take them as an example.
One minute they want to remember their history, next minute they don't want anyone to bring up their history
One minute they want to show how great they are in north, next minute we have to say it doesn't count because it is a different jurisdiction.

It is one or the other. Flip flopping to suit the discussion doesn't really work does it?

No idea why you think I said the current government should not be held to account? I never said that once

Do you think FG are without criticism? Would you defend what Leo Varadkar did and leak a confidential document?

Floppybits wrote: »

Do you think FG are without criticism? Would you defend what Leo Varadkar did and leak a confidential document?

FG deserve plenty of criticism, all starting at the Children's Hospital(since Leo took over).
I never have or never would defend Leo about anything he has done wrong. Same as any politician. I don't have the blind loyalty for any party which seems to affect a lot of people on this forum.
Leo should have been sacked over the Children Hospital as far as I am concerned.

The_Brood

Remember how after the first round of elections they just decided to give 3rd and 2nd place FF/FG the whole government because the public would be too tired to go through another round of elections to properly determine who the people want to lead this country?

Well I wonder if the people who were spared of having to go through another round of elections are content of 1 year+ of total and complete shambles, hopeless lockdowns without a plan, and just unrivaled, unchallenged incompetence?

IAMAMORON

The_Brood wrote: »

Remember how after the first round of elections they just decided to give 3rd and 2nd place FF/FG the whole government because the public would be too tired to go through another round of elections to properly determine who the people want to lead this country?

Who is " they " exactly ?

The_Brood wrote: »

Well I wonder if the people who were spared of having to go through another round of elections are content of 1 year+ of total and complete shambles, hopeless lockdowns without a plan, and just unrivaled, unchallenged incompetence?

Only an another 3 1/2 years left to find out?

Bishop of hope

The_Brood wrote: »

Remember how after the first round of elections they just decided to give 3rd and 2nd place FF/FG the whole government because the public would be too tired to go through another round of elections to properly determine who the people want to lead this country?

Well I wonder if the people who were spared of having to go through another round of elections are content of 1 year+ of total and complete shambles, hopeless lockdowns without a plan, and just unrivaled, unchallenged incompetence?

Yeah if SF had gotten into govt we'd have no covid.
FF had the most seats btw too.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Yeah if SF had gotten into govt we'd have no covid.
FF had the most seats btw too.

Ceann comhairle wasnt won, doesn't count

IAMAMORON

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have no issue with calling SF to account - but they ain't running the country right now

thanks be to phuck

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and I think it is their job, along with all opposition parties, to call the govt to account

This is a democracy, I would hope they are keeping themselves occupied?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

- and that bloody govt should stop spinning, stop pointing the finger, stop acting the arrogant maggot, and treat the parliamentary process with the respect it deserves.

I agree, Sinn Féin need to just cop on to the fact that bullshighting and telling lies and throwing mud for the next 3 years is essentially patronising the people of Ireland. Someone needs to call them out on their incessant lies.