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What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

hatrickpatrick

The news has been full of stories about AstraZeneca having slashed their initial vaccine deliveries to the EU by 60% and the knock on fallout from that. But what’s either being buried in all the reporting, or simply hasn’t been reported at all, is what exactly happened? What’s the reason for the delay? Technical, logistical, commercial, etc?

I assumed it was similar to what was happening with Pfizer, which is essentially an issue of manufacturing capacity being reduced by an upgrade to their production facility. But what seems odd about the AstraZeneca situation is the anger directed towards them from officials and leaders, plus public statements that “They must honour their delivery commitments”, indicating that this isn’t an act-of-God type mishap in manufacturing, but an act of incompetence and/or willful reneging on the agreement - perhaps their capacity has remained the same but they’ve “bumped” the EU’s order in priority because others are paying more, or something along these lines?

Does anyone know what exactly the situation is? I can’t seem to find anything beyond extremely vague statements at the moment.

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Wombatman

Unlikely the EU will approve it for over 65s anyway so why the hue and cry over supplies?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

is_that_so

oharach7 wrote: »

As is the EU's right - but why link that to supplies of a different vaccine (Pfizer) to the UK?

Pfizer are delivering their doses to the UK from the EU, Belgium I believe. So that comes under the EU threat.

HalfAndHalf

is_that_so wrote: »

Biontech are German and the nationality is irrelevant. As a posted said above, their union, their rules. By and large the suppliers have upped production in markets where they need huge supplies. The EU are hinting that any supplies produced in the EU stay there. Let's not forget this conversation would not be happening but for the current AZ mess.

What is the current AZ mess? That they’ve had production issues at a Belgian plant, exactly the same reason and location as Pzizer. Yet as it’s Pzizer it’s taken as gospel and it’s OK.

This doesn’t smell much better either on that basis.

is_that_so

Wombatman wrote: »

Unlikely the EU will approve it for over 65s anyway so why the hue and cry over supplies?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

That's been shown to be a complete misunderstanding by the newspaper in question.

Wombatman

is_that_so wrote: »

That's been shown to be a complete misunderstanding by the newspaper in question.

Source?

is_that_so

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

What is the current AZ mess? That they’ve had production issues at a Belgian plant, exactly the same reason and location as Pzizer. Yet as it’s Pzizer it’s taken as gospel and it’s OK.

This doesn’t smell much better either on that basis.

That they agreed/contracted to supply so many doses in Q1 and are now saying that will be 60% lower.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wombatman wrote: »

Source?

Just to clarify

The 8% efficacy is wrong. The truth was that 8% of the participants in the trial are over 50.

Theres some doubt as to whether the ema can be confident that the efficacy holds up in over 65s as the sample is too low.

is_that_so

Wombatman wrote: »

Source?

German government.

https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1353774307659444226

JPup

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Its still a US company.

It’s a very large pharma company that have currently stated are having production issues in their EU pipeline which isn’t impacting the U.K. pipeline. That’s all we know at the moment.

It’s hard to believe the contract would be so hardline as to guarantee X amount of such a newly developed product without contingency for production variables.

If these threats to block Pfizer deliveries ends up being true, with no foundation from the AZ accusations then it is a very bad look for the EU!

AstraZeneca is a UK based company. And this vaccine was developed with Oxford University. Hence why it is being billed politically by some in England as a triumph for post Brexit Britain!

VinLieger

JPup wrote: »

AstraZeneca is a UK based company. And this vaccine was developed with Oxford University. Hence why it is being billed politically by some in England as a triumph for post Brexit Britain!

There are stories of some elderly "rule brittania" types who refused the pfizer or moderna vaccines and insisted on getting the "british" one

BredonWimsey

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Its still a US company.

It’s a very large pharma company that have currently stated are having production issues in their EU pipeline which isn’t impacting the U.K. pipeline. That’s all we know at the moment.

It’s hard to believe the contract would be so hardline as to guarantee X amount of such a newly developed product without contingency for production variables.

If these threats to block Pfizer deliveries ends up being true, with no foundation from the AZ accusations then it is a very bad look for the EU!

its very odd - why does it effect EU and not UK - very vague reasoning
the EU are entitled to the product they ordered
since none of us have the contract to review its only speculation what the terms state - we have no idea

BredonWimsey

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

While ignoring what are currently completely understandable reasons for the initial shortfall. Production issues within the EU pipeline!

This whole rhetoric of blame AZ and the Brits and punish them (the people) accordingly is disgraceful if true.

People have said I’m some AZ fanboy, yet seem to be totally OK with the direction this is taking. It looks bad and leaves a very bad taste as it’s currently being reported.

why are you so hardline about it? people are simply wondering why the delay and the EU are perfectly entitled to the vaccine they ordered.

myfreespirit

Wombatman wrote: »

Unlikely the EU will approve it for over 65s anyway so why the hue and cry over supplies?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

The "hue and cry" as you put it, is about the €2.7 billion of EU taxpayers money given to Astra Zeneca to supply vaccines as per contractual obligations freely entered into by AZ, but now being reneged on it appears, without an adequate explanation.

BredonWimsey

myfreespirit wrote: »

The "hue and cry" as you put it, is about the €2.7 billion of EU taxpayers money given to Astra Zeneca to supply vaccines as per contractual obligations freely entered into by AZ, but now being reneged on it appears, without an adequate explanation.

yes exactly

oharach7

is_that_so wrote: »

Pfizer are delivering their doses to the UK from the EU, Belgium I believe. So that comes under the EU threat.

I understand where the UK supplies are coming from. The UK is basically self-sufficient in the AZ vaccine and its Pfizer vaccine supplies are coming from the EU.

Basically you are saying that because the EU has a contractual dispute with AZ, it should seize other countries' supplies of Pfizer vaccines in the meantime? It isn't just the UK that is supplied from Pfizer's Belgian factory, so how many countries does the EU want to p*** off? It would be a very provocative act with potential long term consequences - why would any non-EU country ever rely on EU pharma again?

mick087

average_runner wrote: »

If the EU believe the UK are behind it, they can block exports to a particular country. Its their union and their rules !!!

It will all sort itself out by Friday

Again the EU looking for someone to blame
They have to look at themselves.
None of the top brass in the EU are accountable to its citizens so its easy to blame the UK.
The UK ordered 100 million units before the EU had ordered or invested anything. The EU ordered 300 million with another 200 to follow

If the Brits did take 100 million that leaves 200 missing the maths don't add up

The EU again deflected any blame any reasonability .

Apparently German and Hungry are starting to stock pile there own orders now.

I hope this is just fake news, if not then the EU needs to look inside its own states to see where the vaccines are going.

is_that_so

oharach7 wrote: »

I understand where the UK supplies are coming from. The UK is basically self-sufficient in the AZ vaccine and its Pfizer vaccine supplies are coming from the EU.

Basically you are saying that because the EU has a contractual dispute with AZ, it should seize other countries' supplies of Pfizer vaccines in the meantime? It isn't just the UK that is supplied from Pfizer's Belgian factory, so how many countries does the EU want to p*** off? It would be a very provocative act with potential long term consequences - why would any non-EU country ever rely on EU pharma again?

Not really, it's a short term issue. They are not actually doing it at present but the threat remains. The EU are just looking out for its citizens and member countries.

oharach7

BredonWimsey wrote: »

its very odd - why does it effect EU and not UK - very vague reasoning
the EU are entitled to the product they ordered
since none of us have the contract to review its only speculation what the terms state - we have no idea

As I understand it, some of the UK's PPE supplies were affected last year by export restrictions - so to prevent a recurrence the UK insisted that its AZ vaccine supply should be made in the UK with ringfenced production capacity.

None of us have seen the contracts, but if that's correct and it just so happens that the EU ringfenced production capacity suffered yield issues, then why would the EU be entitled to reach across into the UK supply chain?

titan18

oharach7 wrote: »

I understand where the UK supplies are coming from. The UK is basically self-sufficient in the AZ vaccine and its Pfizer vaccine supplies are coming from the EU.

Basically you are saying that because the EU has a contractual dispute with AZ, it should seize other countries' supplies of Pfizer vaccines in the meantime? It isn't just the UK that is supplied from Pfizer's Belgian factory, so how many countries does the EU want to p*** off? It would be a very provocative act with potential long term consequences - why would any non-EU country ever rely on EU pharma again?

If the UK did get AZ vaccines that should have been going to Europe, seems fair to block other vaccines to them and us taking them instead.

Renault 5

mick087 wrote: »

Again the EU looking for someone to blame
They have to look at themselves.
None of the top brass in the EU are accountable to its citizens so its easy to blame the UK.
The UK ordered 100 million units before the EU had ordered or invested anything. The EU ordered 300 million with another 200 to follow

If the Brits did take 100 million that leaves 200 missing the maths don't add up

The EU again deflected any blame any reasonability .

Apparently German and Hungry are starting to stock pile there own orders now.

I hope this is just fake news, if not then the EU needs to look inside its own states to see where the vaccines are going.

I dont know if im missing something but the EU countries can stock pile all they want.

They would be stock piling their share of the vaccines. Thats only hurting their own citizens.

BredonWimsey

oharach7 wrote: »

As I understand it, some of the UK's PPE supplies were affected last year by export restrictions - so to prevent a recurrence the UK insisted that its AZ vaccine supply should be made in the UK with ringfenced production capacity.

None of us have seen the contracts, but if that's correct and it just so happens that the EU ringfenced production capacity suffered yield issues, then why would the EU be entitled to reach across into the UK supply chain?

hmm interesting

Hurrache

mick087 wrote: »

Again the EU looking for someone to blame
They have to look at themselves.
None of the top brass in the EU are accountable to its citizens so its easy to blame the UK.

Mick, you're still posting nonsense since you first started this morning and were asked to take a look at what the story is actually about.

Seth Brundle

JPup wrote: »

AstraZeneca is a UK based company. And this vaccine was developed with Oxford University. Hence why it is being billed politically by some in England as a triumph for post Brexit Britain!

Apparently No. 10 wanted the vials wrapped in the Union flag...
No 10 wanted union flag on Oxford coronavirus vaccine kits
"Plan hatched by new ‘Union unit’ to counter rise in Scottish nationalism"

brickster69

Has the EU considered getting on the phone to its factory in Belgium and ask them what is going on with the delays ?

Donald Trump

mick087 wrote: »

Again the EU looking for someone to blame
They have to look at themselves.
None of the top brass in the EU are accountable to its citizens so its easy to blame the UK.
The UK ordered 100 million units before the EU had ordered or invested anything. The EU ordered 300 million with another 200 to follow

If the Brits did take 100 million that leaves 200 missing the maths don't add up

The EU again deflected any blame any reasonability .

Apparently German and Hungry are starting to stock pile there own orders now.

I hope this is just fake news, if not then the EU needs to look inside its own states to see where the vaccines are going.

I didn't see anything (other than posters here) blaming the UK.

The EU handed over money which funded the production of the vaccine. The implication I'm getting is that AZ might have decided they already had the EU money and after the vaccine was produced, decided to send it to others.

Let's use the Australia as the hypothetical example of another potential buyer (they are only a buyer - not a conspirator). Australia hadn't taken the risk of prepaying for much vaccine as they wanted to let others take the risk. So today Australia rings all three of AZ and Pfizer and Moderna and say "we're in the market for 100m vaccines. When can any of you deliver them". Pfizer says "yeah, no problem but it'll be a month". Moderna says "yeah, we can do that but it'll be six weeks before we clear backorders".

AZ realises it has 100m in it's warehouse that the EU has prepaid for. But it also knows that if it can ship that to Australia tomorrow that it will get their business. It already has the EU captive because it has their money. So they tell Australia "we can have it to you tomorrow".

In my hypothetical example above, Australia is not at fault. It would have just gone to the company and bought vaccines. It would be the company that was messing.

oharach7

titan18 wrote: »

If the UK did get AZ vaccines that should have been going to Europe, seems fair to block other vaccines to them and us taking them instead.

There hasn't been any actual evidence of that yet, especially as the UK AZ supply is supposed to be produced in the UK. But the Commission should absolutely be drilling down to the root cause of the issue.

I have read reports of Israel opportunistically "borrowing" supplies meant for other countries who hadn't approved yet, on the basis that they would make it up to the other country once approval was granted there. If any of that has gone on, then presumably an equal amount of vaccine would need to move in the other direction once the EU approval is received.

But the extent of the potential EU shortfall (I think I read up to 60%) suggests that there is something bigger going on.

oharach7

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Apparently No. 10 wanted the vials wrapped in the Union flag...
No 10 wanted union flag on Oxford coronavirus vaccine kits
"Plan hatched by new ‘Union unit’ to counter rise in Scottish nationalism"

And the SNP wanted to send out appointment cards in blue envelopes - big deal. The EU is not averse to putting its flag on things it has funded.

froog

brickster69 wrote: »

Has the EU considered getting on the phone to its factory in Belgium and ask them what is going on with the delays ?

lol can you imagine the plant manager,

secretary: EU on line 1
plant manager: who?
secretary: the EU, the european union. they want their fcuking vaccines
plant manager: ehm... tell them i'm at lunch

...Ghost...

mick087 wrote: »

So eveyone else is to blame again except anyone from the EU.
Who is accountable from the EU?

I for one am glad the EMA has taken precautions and have done it's best to check all the boxes with the vaccines put forward. Who would you hold accountable if they rushed it through like the UK did and in 6 months time, half the people who took it developed brain tumours?

average_runner wrote: »

Basically AZ has looked after their own people first. I am sure Boris was well aware of this also.

EU needs to look at it self and figure out why we are so slow in certifying these vaccines compare to the rest of the world.

We like to be sure that we are putting out a safe product which meets the claims made by the company making it.

mick087 wrote: »

I have never had a pizza arrive 2 hours late.

You haven't ordered enough Pizza then

I worked for a popular well known chain a few years back and deliveries were often an hour late on a busy night, sometimes 2 or more hours late. Sometimes the order ticket fell under the counter.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Some countries are treating this as an emergency and granting emergency use authorisation. It's basically ask for less data and approve early.

It's an interesting question if we should have done this?

We have all had a rough ride with this pandemic. But rushing through vaccines would be reckless. We are already approving them years ahead of what is normal. Any negative consequences would be detrimental to the roll-out of any future vaccine programs and would play into the hands of the anti-vax crowd.

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Yeah great news. Let’s deny 70 million people the opportunity to not get vaccinated and possibly die. That’ll show them!

All because of as yet unproven theories.

Disgusting attitude!

My guess is that the news is based off the EU saying they will require early declarations of Covid vaccines for export and the "news" has been picked up by publications who love to spin nothing into a war on humanity.

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So why are we giving out so much about not getting as much of it?

Because we paid for it.

VinLieger wrote: »

There are stories of some elderly "rule brittania" types who refused the pfizer or moderna vaccines and insisted on getting the "british" one

I heard this too. A British doctor was on NewsTalk a few days ago and was carrying out vaccinations. He said there was a lot of people refusing vaccination when they were told it wasn't the oxford vaccine they would be getting.

mick087

Hurrache wrote: »

Mick, you're still posting nonsense since you first started this morning and were asked to take a look at what the story is actually about.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca

That's the question why we all on a forum thread.

Its just that i firmly put the blame at the EU door step.
You don't like this or you don't agree with this, so you call this nonsense.

When THE organization known as the EU was sitting around the coffee table negotiating, other countries was invested and buying the vaccine.