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Child Item

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

hatrickpatrick

The news has been full of stories about AstraZeneca having slashed their initial vaccine deliveries to the EU by 60% and the knock on fallout from that. But what’s either being buried in all the reporting, or simply hasn’t been reported at all, is what exactly happened? What’s the reason for the delay? Technical, logistical, commercial, etc?

I assumed it was similar to what was happening with Pfizer, which is essentially an issue of manufacturing capacity being reduced by an upgrade to their production facility. But what seems odd about the AstraZeneca situation is the anger directed towards them from officials and leaders, plus public statements that “They must honour their delivery commitments”, indicating that this isn’t an act-of-God type mishap in manufacturing, but an act of incompetence and/or willful reneging on the agreement - perhaps their capacity has remained the same but they’ve “bumped” the EU’s order in priority because others are paying more, or something along these lines?

Does anyone know what exactly the situation is? I can’t seem to find anything beyond extremely vague statements at the moment.

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Sweet.Science

average_runner wrote: »

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

Link ?

Not in Kansas

mick087 wrote: »

My own personnel opinion is that it is immoral and should be illegal for vaccines to be sold for profit but that's a different subject.

Yes the bigger picture it is about health care and the duty of care our elected government and its citizens have to each other.

Absolutely Mick. A lot of talk about concerns over the education and future of our children being affected by the pandemic in recent days. Well actually, I'm far more worried about what kind of a world we will have if poorer countries are simply left behind in the vaccination programmes. The idea of a shared humanity will become meaningless, and what kind of a world is that for our children?

Red Silurian

average_runner wrote: »

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

I haven't heard of this one and as far as I am aware Pfizer is on track to meet their EU commitments set out in the contract, yes they will have less coming in this week and next but the end result will be more coming in during the following weeks therefore their first quarterly deliveries will be on track or possibly even ahead of schedule

HalfAndHalf

average_runner wrote: »

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

Yeah great news. Let’s deny 70 million people the opportunity to not get vaccinated and possibly die. That’ll show them!

All because of as yet unproven theories.

Disgusting attitude!

ArmaniJeanss

Not in Kansas wrote: »

Absolutely Mick. A lot of talk about concerns over the education and future of our children being affected by the pandemic in recent days. Well actually, I'm far more worried about what kind of a world we will have if poorer countries are simply left behind in the vaccination programmes. The idea of a shared humanity will become meaningless, and what kind of a world is that for our children?

Thing is though if you can't make a profit then why would you invest in vaccine research in the first place? No-one invests a billion if the best you are allowed do is breakeven.

So by definition it would limit vaccine research to philanthropists (of which there is a limited supply) or governments/nationalised entities which have huge in-efficiencies.

is_that_so

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Yeah great news. Let’s deny 70 million people the opportunity to not get vaccinated and possibly die. That’ll show them!

All because of as yet unproven theories.

Disgusting attitude!

The UK have orders of 100m from AstraZeneca. That story on Pfizer BTW is from the Telegraph.

BredonWimsey

Not in Kansas wrote: »

Absolutely Mick. A lot of talk about concerns over the education and future of our children being affected by the pandemic in recent days. Well actually, I'm far more worried about what kind of a world we will have if poorer countries are simply left behind in the vaccination programmes. The idea of a shared humanity will become meaningless, and what kind of a world is that for our children?

this is a huge concern of mine too - what about all the other countries who dont have access to a vaccine - nobody talks about them- what are their options - it will be years before they have a vaccine.

in addition to the humanitarian issue - this also means that travel to and from those countries will be affected and world travel will be affected for a long time.

Renault 5

AstraZeneca really made a mess of this.

They made themselves look like amateurs with their data and roll out compared to Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

mick087

average_runner wrote: »

How do you think these medical companies pays it dividends?

How do you think they get investment?

Dividends and investment is a subject for another thread

In short they get investment because of the work all staff in the company do to make a success.

HalfAndHalf

Renault 5 wrote: »

AstraZeneca really made a mess of this.

They made themselves look like amateurs with their data and roll out compared to Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

So why are we giving out so much about not getting as much of it?

fly_agaric

I wonder what should have been done differently by the EU, without benefit of hindsight (i.e. it is late Spring/early Summer 2020, we don't know which companies will succeed or fail in r & d and trials, we don't know which will have production troubles etc).

I mean we know that the alternative of the countries trying to do it all independently outside ad-hoc EU framework that has been created would have been a disaster. Is that accepted?

The evidence for that imo is provided by what happened with PPE/medical supplies at start of pandemic (also described as an "EU failure" at the time by posters on this site afair).

BredonWimsey

average_runner wrote: »

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

are they getting an injunction

whats going on - did the UK offer more money or something?

is_that_so

BredonWimsey wrote: »

this is a huge concern of mine too - what about all the other countries who dont have access to a vaccine - nobody talks about them- what are their options - it will be years before they have a vaccine.

in addition to the humanitarian issue - this also means that travel to and from those countries will be affected and world travel will be affected for a long time.

That's where COVAX comes in and part of the thinking behind the EU's huge orders is that extras can ultimately be made available to other nations.

HalfAndHalf

is_that_so wrote: »

The UK have orders of 100m from AstraZeneca. That story on Pfizer BTW is from the Telegraph.

Not my point, the rhetoric of good to see us (if true) trying to block potentially life saving treatment being delivered to another country is appalling. And celebrating it is just as bad!

What conversation has to happen there for the EU to stop a US company from supplying products to the U.K. it doesn’t look good at all!!

oharach7

average_runner wrote: »

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

The unsubstantiated anti-British rhetoric from a few posters is totally uncalled for.

If you want to play at that game, then the UK could just take delivery of its Pfizer doses in Belfast and Gibraltar (within the single market). It might be hard to use it all there (40m doses), but it would make the EU export ban pointless so might give the EU some pause for thought.

ypres5

sorry I'm out of the loop but if astra zeneca are proven to have been up to shenanigans with the EU supply of the vaccines is there anything we can do about it or are we down **** Creek still?

is_that_so

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Not my point, the rhetoric of good to see us (if true) trying to block potentially life saving treatment being delivered to another country is appalling. And celebrating it is just as bad!

What conversation has to happen there for the EU to stop a US company from supplying products to the U.K. it doesn’t look good at all!!

It's actually goods made in the EU, which they are entitled to do, however it looks. The EU are not the bad guys and they have shelled out huge sums to get vaccines produced. It's a very large pharma company which may already be in breach of contract before they have even started delivering.

mick087

Not in Kansas wrote: »

Absolutely Mick. A lot of talk about concerns over the education and future of our children being affected by the pandemic in recent days. Well actually, I'm far more worried about what kind of a world we will have if poorer countries are simply left behind in the vaccination programmes. The idea of a shared humanity will become meaningless, and what kind of a world is that for our children?

The vaccine is going to be distributed to the most vulnerable first which basically means the rich first.
Unfortunately some countries are going to be waiting along time for the vaccine but this is the world we have created.

The vaccine should be a world wide programme not grab what you can bid as much as you can to get what you can.

BredonWimsey

is_that_so wrote: »

That's where COVAX comes in and part of the thinking behind the EU's huge orders is that extras can ultimately be made available to other nations.

aww ok thanks alot!

BredonWimsey

mick087 wrote: »

The vaccine is going to be distributed to the most vulnerable first which basically means the rich first.
Unfortunately some countries are going to be waiting along time for the vaccine but this is the world we have created.

The vaccine should be a world wide programme not grab what you can bid as much as you can to get what you can.

yes exactly

average_runner

BredonWimsey wrote: »

are they getting an injunction

whats going on - did the UK offer more money or something?

If the EU believe the UK are behind it, they can block exports to a particular country. Its their union and their rules !!!

It will all sort itself out by Friday

Joe_ Public

In relation to the Oxford/AZ vaccine the initial stated goal of the programme was on a humanitarian, non profit basis to have the vaccine available at an affordable price all over the world. That changed when Bill Gates intervened and persuaded the university to hitch its wagon to AZ and grant it exclusive licensing rights. Otherwise, the manufacturing issues happening wouldnt be taking place.

is_that_so

oharach7 wrote: »

The unsubstantiated anti-British rhetoric from a few posters is totally uncalled for.

If you want to play at that game, then the UK could just take delivery of its Pfizer doses in Belfast and Gibraltar (within the single market). It might be hard to use it all there (40m doses), but it would make the EU export ban pointless so might give the EU some pause for thought.

Escalation is not the aim here. A customer is demanding that a supplier honours their contract.

Renault 5

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So why are we giving out so much about not getting as much of it?

Due to contractual agreements.

The EU paid X amount up front for X number of doses to be ready for when its approved.

AstraZeneca agreed to this and signed the contract.

Now that the EU has coming knocking asking where the doses are AstraZeneca dont have an answer.

The EU are also asking well what did you do with the money, AstraZeneca also dont have an answer.

A contract is a contract no matter how you look at it.

HalfAndHalf

is_that_so wrote: »

It's actually goods made in the EU, which they are entitled to do, however it looks. The EU are not the bad guys and they have shelled out huge sums to get vaccines produced. It's a very large pharma company which may already be in breach of contract before they have even started delivering.

Its still a US company.

It’s a very large pharma company that have currently stated are having production issues in their EU pipeline which isn’t impacting the U.K. pipeline. That’s all we know at the moment.

It’s hard to believe the contract would be so hardline as to guarantee X amount of such a newly developed product without contingency for production variables.

If these threats to block Pfizer deliveries ends up being true, with no foundation from the AZ accusations then it is a very bad look for the EU!

crossman47

mick087 wrote: »

Dividends and investment is a subject for another thread

In short they get investment because of the work all staff in the company do to make a success.

But nobody will invest if they won't get a financial dividend.

HalfAndHalf

is_that_so wrote: »

Escalation is not the aim here. A customer is demanding that a supplier honours their contract.

While ignoring what are currently completely understandable reasons for the initial shortfall. Production issues within the EU pipeline!

This whole rhetoric of blame AZ and the Brits and punish them (the people) accordingly is disgraceful if true.

People have said I’m some AZ fanboy, yet seem to be totally OK with the direction this is taking. It looks bad and leaves a very bad taste as it’s currently being reported.

oharach7

is_that_so wrote: »

Escalation is not the aim here. A customer is demanding that a supplier honours their contract.

As is the EU's right - but why link that to supplies of a different vaccine (Pfizer) to the UK?

is_that_so

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Its still a US company.

It’s a very large pharma company that have currently stated are having production issues in their EU pipeline which isn’t impacting the U.K. pipeline. That’s all we know at the moment.

It’s hard to believe the contract would be so hardline as to guarantee X amount of such a newly developed product without contingency for production variables.

If these threats to block Pfizer deliveries ends up being true, with no foundation from the AZ accusations then it is a very bad look for the EU!

Biontech are German and the nationality is irrelevant. As a posted said above, their union, their rules. By and large the suppliers have upped production in markets where they need huge supplies. The EU are hinting that any supplies produced in the EU stay there. Let's not forget this conversation would not be happening but for the current AZ mess.

Hurrache

is_that_so wrote: »

That story on Pfizer BTW is from the Telegraph.

It's can be assumed to be bull**** so.

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Brits and punish them (the people) accordingly is disgraceful if true.

It's not true.

All that has been proposed is that any exports of vaccines from the EU, produced in the EU, to third countries (excluding humanitarian exports) will require an early notification.