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What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

hatrickpatrick

The news has been full of stories about AstraZeneca having slashed their initial vaccine deliveries to the EU by 60% and the knock on fallout from that. But what’s either being buried in all the reporting, or simply hasn’t been reported at all, is what exactly happened? What’s the reason for the delay? Technical, logistical, commercial, etc?

I assumed it was similar to what was happening with Pfizer, which is essentially an issue of manufacturing capacity being reduced by an upgrade to their production facility. But what seems odd about the AstraZeneca situation is the anger directed towards them from officials and leaders, plus public statements that “They must honour their delivery commitments”, indicating that this isn’t an act-of-God type mishap in manufacturing, but an act of incompetence and/or willful reneging on the agreement - perhaps their capacity has remained the same but they’ve “bumped” the EU’s order in priority because others are paying more, or something along these lines?

Does anyone know what exactly the situation is? I can’t seem to find anything beyond extremely vague statements at the moment.

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PCeeeee

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Ah well sure, what’s all the fuss about then, cancel the contract it doesn’t work........

Completely coincidental timing of course! :-)

Are you missing the part about over 65's? It's still an important part of the armoury.

HalfAndHalf

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1353802566623227906?s=21

Uh oh...

Ah well sure, what’s all the fuss about then, cancel the contract it doesn’t work........

Completely coincidental timing of course! :-)

daydorunrun

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1353802566623227906?s=21

Uh oh...

Among seniors it has to be noted.

Wasn’t the plan to use mRNA vaccines on the old and this one on others anyway?

bennyl10

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1353802566623227906?s=21

Uh oh...

EMA to only approve for under 65s, it’s bad for a lot
It’s horrific for the UK

Fr_Dougal

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1353802566623227906?s=21

Uh oh...

Donald Trump

46 Long wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GuntramWolff/status/1352899970517626880

They bought X million from them and are now being informed that only Y are available. Where Y is less than X.

If they had bought 2X million, or were now willing to pay more than the contractually agreed price, how would that have meant AZ would have more than Y now?

Baggly

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Lets see if I can make it simple.

Data is bad.

Ema need to take time and do due diligence to study the data in depth.

Ema wont take shortcuts.

If anyone wants to complain about the approval not coming through I want them to explain the data and their favoured dosage regimen.

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Please don’t talk to me like I’m an idiot! You don’t need to ‘make it simple when you’re changing the subject as you don’t actually have an answer!

UK didn’t take shortcuts either, or the other countries that have approved it. They amended the approval process to speed things up due to it being a reasonably serious situation.

But keep making excuses of it helps you feel warm and fuzzy.

Mod

Calm it down and improve the tone please lads.

Van.Bosch

Dempo1 wrote: »

I'm not aware of any contract that can be tied down to guess work, maybe"s, maybe not"s?

How many contracts are you aware of for vaccines in a pandemic? Are you aware of contracts that allow a buyer to inspect production logs and who production was sold too? As that’s apparently in this contract too.

I agree with you in general but contracts for these things would be so niche anything could be in them.

Donald Trump

Dempo1 wrote: »

I'm not aware of any contract that can be tied down to guess work, maybe"s, maybe not"s?

A contract could be structured as an option - "Beginning Jan 2020 the EU has a right to request up to X million doses per month at price Y and AZ must supply these"

HalfAndHalf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The uk supply isnt interupted

Like i dont blame/critise the uk government here,its in a terrible state as regards death rate etc and the EU going in demanding x,y and z off a country in crisis is no solution either

Because the U.K. are getting there’s from the U.K. factories. The U.K. have had delays in Pfizer and BioNtech due to the Belgium factory issues. As I understand it.

fly_agaric

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Must have missed that thread.....or is just tonight there’s a lot of blindness?

I probably read the various threads in this place too much for my own good.:(
When the EU comes up in discussions it is generally not...positive shall we say.

Dempo1

Van.Bosch wrote: »

What if the contract said, if we approve at any stage in January, you will have 60,000,000 doses available in February?

Then in this scenario AZ says, if you approve in Feb we can provide 60% less due to production delays. Then the EU thinks the production delays while valid are not the full story and the contract terms both parties agreed to weren’t achievable as AZ didn’t stockpile the 60mln doses but rather sold them?

I'm not aware of any contract that can be tied down to guess work, maybe"s, maybe not"s?

Danzy

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

This can’t be right, it’s everyone but the EU’s fault......oh wait, it isn’t!

There is a bit of By Jingoism creeping in on this thread, yet many of the most ardent supporters of the EU are pointing out that it's response is not acceptable.

HalfAndHalf

fly_agaric wrote: »

What about the old saw "the dose makes the poison?"

What about the dosing and amendments to it have been out there for a while now.

On this forum, no...
It's always 13 o'clock on the 31st of September and the EUs fault!

Must have missed that thread.....or is just tonight there’s a lot of blindness?

greyday

...Ghost... wrote: »

Most of what we have is speculation. However, what we do know is the EU funded the R&D as well as purchasing 300 Million doses with the option of another 100 Million doses to the tune of over a Hundred BILLION Euro. The approval by the EMA is neither here nor there.....the EU paid for these vaccines.

Now, it would seem that the EU have reason to believe that AZ have allocated doses to other countries which had been ear marked for the EU. Why would they do this? I suspect because AZ were getting a premium for those doses by the buyers. The EU are generally over cautious and to come out and make the type of statement linked in this thread tells me that they are pretty sure AZ are pulling a fast one.

Where did you get the 100 billion euro, that is absolute crap in fairness.

HalfAndHalf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looks to me the british have pulled a quick one and pressed astra to supply them first

That type underhand scheming is pretty much exactly,what id expect from the british tory party

Any proof or just more of the same old same old?

fly_agaric

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

does not a dosing regemin make!

What about the old saw "the dose makes the poison?"

HalfAndHalf wrote:

This can’t be right, it’s everyone but the EU’s fault......oh wait, it isn’t!

On this forum, no...
It's always 13 o'clock on the 31st of September and the EUs fault!

HalfAndHalf

...Ghost... wrote: »

Most of what we have is speculation. However, what we do know is the EU funded the R&D as well as purchasing 300 Million doses with the option of another 100 Million doses to the tune of over a Hundred BILLION Euro. The approval by the EMA is neither here nor there.....the EU paid for these vaccines.

Now, it would seem that the EU have reason to believe that AZ have allocated doses to other countries which had been ear marked for the EU. Why would they do this? I suspect because AZ were getting a premium for those doses by the buyers. The EU are generally over cautious and to come out and make the type of statement linked in this thread tells me that they are pretty sure AZ are pulling a fast one.

They didn’t find the R&D they part funded is all. That’s besides the point unless the publish the contract that stipulates that funding directly allocated them X vaccinations.

So you believe everything a politician says! Wow, ok then crack on so!

greyday

The EU waited until November to order from Pfizer while the USA ordered in July, this looks a good way to deflect from the incompetence shown when ordering from the maker of the vaccine with the higher efficacy.

...Ghost...

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

THEY’RE selling at barely more than cost! Unlike the rest who are charging 20 times the price!

Most of what we have is speculation. However, what we do know is the EU funded the R&D as well as purchasing 300 Million doses with the option of another 100 Million doses to the tune of over a BILLION Euro. The approval by the EMA is neither here nor there.....the EU paid for these vaccines.

Now, it would seem that the EU have reason to believe that AZ have allocated doses to other countries which had been ear marked for the EU. Why would they do this? I suspect because AZ were getting a premium for those doses by the buyers. The EU are generally over cautious and to come out and make the type of statement linked in this thread tells me that they are pretty sure AZ are pulling a fast one.

HalfAndHalf

Van.Bosch wrote: »

What if the contract said, if we approve at any stage in January, you will have 60,000,000 doses available in February?

Then in this scenario AZ says, if you approve in Feb we can provide 60% less due to production delays. Then the EU thinks the production delays while valid are not the full story and the contract terms both parties agreed to weren’t achievable as AZ didn’t stockpile the 60mln doses but rather sold them?

Just as in the Brexit negotiations, there does seem to be a lot of ‘we will always negotiate in good faith’ and at the drop of a hat accusations of distrust.

Same here, for all anyone knows at the moment it’s a simple business production issue, but senior people within the EU are publicly crossing the line, which is not in keeping with this alleged ‘good faith’. You have to wonder if it’s a bit of internal projection.

markjbloggs

They took our Jaaabs.

agoodpunt

seller's market

Van.Bosch

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think the EU have lost the plot on this AZ are a private company, entered into a contract for supply of a vaccine, that's the easy bit.

The EU obviously got all excited but there's a slight flaw in the notion any private company, supplying a product that has yet to be approved by the very organisation purchasing it can be expected not to start supplying those who have approved their product. I find it hard to believe AZ could be expected not to supply to those waiting and have approved its vaccine.

I understand the EU has paid for a set amount of doses but if logic dictates the product in question was at time yet to be actually produced, let alone approved, how could the company be able to determine an actual delivery date, in essence the company could easily say, we'll get to you eventually. It might seem far fetched but I strongly suspect AZ "s lawyers have their T" s crossed whilst typically the EU wants it cake and eat it.

What if the contract said, if we approve at any stage in January, you will have 60,000,000 doses available in February?

Then in this scenario AZ says, if you approve in Feb we can provide 60% less due to production delays. Then the EU thinks the production delays while valid are not the full story and the contract terms both parties agreed to weren’t achievable as AZ didn’t stockpile the 60mln doses but rather sold them?

Amirani

46 Long wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GuntramWolff/status/1352899970517626880

That's nonsense to be fair. The only statement we have so far is that AstraZeneca had a production glitch.

The EU paying a higher price per dose would do nothing to fix that. How much more per dose should they have paid?

Fr_Dougal

Dressoutlet wrote: »

The EU jeopardising the health of one country to spite another Warren's a little more than having a 'hump'
It's a downright dangerous precedent and should be nipped on the bud completely.

Yes we would be short of vaccines but that would be the fdault of the EU trying to play supreme ruler and not because the company rightfully pulled out.

What is the name of god are you posting about?

HalfAndHalf

46 Long wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GuntramWolff/status/1352899970517626880

This can’t be right, it’s everyone but the EU’s fault......oh wait, it isn’t!

46 Long

https://twitter.com/GuntramWolff/status/1352899970517626880

HalfAndHalf

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Proof. Feel free to entertain yourself with some facts.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines-key-facts

Common knowledge too. I wouldn't see a need to prove common knowledge so enjoy yourself.

LOL! One subsection of one section that simply mentions ‘prescription and labelling’ does not a dosing regemin make!

You’re grabbing at straws and I’m not wasting my time anymore.

You did a reasonable job of trying to divert from you’re first incorrect post but not quite.

You keep defending the EMA and their slow response which is costing lives. None as blind as those that don’t want to see.

Donald Trump

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think the EU have lost the plot on this AZ are a private company, entered into a contract for supply of a vaccine, that's the easy bit.

The EU obviously got all excited but there's a slight flaw in the notion any private company, supplying a product that has yet to be approved by the very organisation purchasing it can be expected not to start supplying those who have approved their product. I find it hard to believe AZ could be expected not to supply to those waiting and have approved its vaccine.

I understand the EU has paid for a set amount of doses but if logic dictates the product in question was at time yet to be actually produced, let alone approved, how could the company be able to determine an actual delivery date, in essence the company could easily say, we'll get to you eventually. It might seem far fetched but I strongly suspect AZ "s lawyers have their T" s crossed whilst typically the EU wants it cake and eat it.

I'm not sure what you are not understanding about it.

If AZ took the EU money and then decided to sell the product to others then it is like as if you financed your local mechanic up front to buy some classic car you identified in order to refurbish it for you, you paid for the materials as he went along, and when you arrived to collect it he said "ah, I sold it to some other fella yesterday but sure I'll find you another one"