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Child Item

16 family members given vaccine

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https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0118/1190394-coombe-virus/

People like myself waiting patiently for my parents to get the vaccine and low risk people get it simply because they have a family member in the know. If they were going to run out why did they order so many or give them to more deserving cases. Sackable offence for Donnolly and the staff members involved.
No wonder the rollout will takes ages:(

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Russman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who doesn't see the problem here is being wilfully ignorant.

"Sure they were going to waste anyway"

That excuse is clearly and obviously wide open to abuse.

Can we trust that it was actually true? That the doctor didn't intentionally leave a few to the side or fiddle the numbers to leave himself with a surplus?

"Why did you give the vaccine to 10 of your golfing buddies?" "Sure they were going to waste anyway". How convenient.

Why would it not be ? The did everyone, had 120 left over (due to their efficiency in obtaining more doses from the vials), rang around and got 104 people and were still left with 16 and then got in family members.
I agree it looks bad in a way, but what were they to do with 16 doses at apparently an hours notice at 9.30pm ?

Mrsmum

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I don't understand the outrage. The vaccines were prepared and would have went to waste. If people were hanging around, why not vaccinate them?

How were they hanging around though - people over 70 ? What would they be doing hanging around a maternity hospital ? Also I don't think it was said either that his children were necessarily at work or volunteering in the hospital that night.

ThewhiteJesus

Is this really peoples biggest concern, 16 doses out of millions that will be distributed.
No, the problem is we need more vaccine and fast for everyone lets not lose our collective minds over something so trivial

Amirani

elefant wrote: »

The chances that 2 of the Master's children were completely randomly part of the only 16 people they could get hold of does stretch the limits of credulity.

Given they both work in the hospital, there's a reasonable chance they were already consented and registered anyway. But would be good to know the details.

jill_valentine

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who doesn't see the problem here is being wilfully ignorant.

"Sure they were going to waste anyway"

That excuse is clearly and obviously wide open to abuse.

Can we trust that it was actually true? That the doctor didn't intentionally leave a few to the side or fiddle the numbers to leave himself with a surplus?

"Why did you give the vaccine to 10 of your golfing buddies?" "Sure they were going to waste anyway". How convenient.

The only way to eliminate the risk of this happening entirely is to overpolice the use of these scrap doses. Everywhere that's been attempted it's gone badly.

We're realistically talking about 5 doses here, none of which could have been planned for. That they went to HSE worker family members, considering the year HSE workers and their families have both behind and ahead of them, is no outrage to me.

Kimbot

Mrsmum wrote: »

How were they hanging around though - people over 70 ? What would they be doing hanging around a maternity hospital ? Also I don't think it was said either that his children were necessarily at work or volunteering in the hospital that night.

Exactly, and were these 16 outside people not an extra risk to all the patients in the Coombe? How would any of them have been certain they didnt have Covid etc.

PO!NT

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Is this really peoples biggest concern, 16 doses out of millions that will be distributed.
No, the problem is we need more vaccine and fast for everyone lets not lose our collective minds over something so trivial

It will be 32 doses

These 16 require a second dose.

plodder

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who doesn't see the problem here is being wilfully ignorant.

"Sure they were going to waste anyway"

That excuse is clearly and obviously wide open to abuse.

Can we trust that it was actually true? That the doctor didn't intentionally leave a few to the side or fiddle the numbers to leave himself with a surplus?

No reasonable person would think that in this case

"Why did you give the vaccine to 10 of your golfing buddies?" "Sure they were going to waste anyway". How convenient.

If it were allowed that is how it would be perceived for certain, and who knows maybe it could happen

Christy42

Kimbot wrote: »

But the thing is how were these 16 people who were not due a vaccine were hanging around when the spares became available.

?? I am not due a vaccine and I am hanging around. I presume most people are right now really it is just a matter of how far from a relevant hospital. I mean I work from home but if I messaged my boss saying I suddenly had a vaccine problem I could be at any hospital in Dublin a 1 hour period no bother. I suspect many are in the same boat.

The people most likely not to be hanging around are the front line workers unfortunately.

Russman

elefant wrote: »

The chances that 2 of the Master's children were completely randomly part of the only 16 people they could get hold of does stretch the limits of credulity.

And if they rang the local Garda Station, Fire Station or another hospital, how would those places manage to select 16 people without accusations of favouritism ?
They had already gotten 104 additional people for the 120 doses they were left with.

[Deleted User]

Does the fact these 16 people received unscheduled doses mean that someone else's scheduled vaccination has to be canned because the 16 now need the second dose?

bucketybuck

Russman wrote: »

Why would it not be ? The did everyone, had 120 left over (due to their efficiency in obtaining more doses from the vials), rang around and got 104 people and were still left with 16 and then got in family members.
I agree it looks bad in a way, but what were they to do with 16 doses at apparently an hours notice at 9.30pm ?

Thats not the point, do you trust that what they did is not open to abuse?

That if this is allowed that no doctor or nurse will contrive a scenario that leaves some vials "going to waste"?

Kimbot

Northernlily wrote: »

Does the fact these 16 people received unscheduled doses mean that someone else's scheduled vaccination has to be canned because the 16 now need the second dose?

Well their doses will be pushed back to the next batch or something.

hynesie08

elefant wrote: »

The chances that 2 of the Master's children were completely randomly part of the only 16 people they could get hold of does stretch the limits of credulity.

It does, except they were 2 of 120.......

jill_valentine

elefant wrote: »

The chances that 2 of the Master's children were completely randomly part of the only 16 people they could get hold of does stretch the limits of credulity.

It doesn't, really. If you were asked to round up 16 people in an hour at 9.00 at night with medical histories you were broadly familiar with, who are the first 16 you'd get? Could you even find 9 70 year olds?

Away With The Fairies

Kimbot wrote: »

But the thing is how were these 16 people who were not due a vaccine were hanging around when the spares became available.

Were they hanging around though? Thought it was family members working there.

I still don't see how angry people are though. Would there not be spares with every facility vaccinators go to? There could be someone out sick or self isolating on the day they were due to get theirs. Why let a vaccine go to waste?

jrosen

The lack of transparency isn't helping. I would rather see the 16 doses be used than go in the bin and if its true that they exhausted a list of eligible people they were aware of before coming back to people they knew then im not sure what else they could have done?

If the wait list was not activated at the time and it was simply a case of bin or use then I think the right decision was made to use them. But as someone in a position on authority he and his family should not have benefitted.

But I would also wonder why the coombe hospital, or any hospital for that matter that has little or no covid cases is getting this amount of vaccines when there are hospitals with alot more covid patients and medial staff dealing only with covid patients not having enough. It seems to be that the roll out probably wasnt done correctly.

Christy42

Russman wrote: »

And if they rang the local Garda Station, Fire Station or another hospital, how would those places manage to select 16 people without accusations of favouritism ?
They had already gotten 104 additional people for the 120 doses they were left with.

Do we know they didn't ring them uo and those people were not part of the 104?

Red Silurian

We are hearing from the hospital that 16 vaccines would have gone to waste of this hadn't been done. We also hear from the hospital that they tried to contact the HSE to try and get more frontline workers vaccinated but the HSE either didn't respond or responded with 16 fewer than the coombe requested

One way or another I say wait and see what the HSE have to say about the matter...

Also worthy of note is that 9 of the 16 were over 70 so were due to get vaccinated shortly anyway

bucketybuck

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Is this really peoples biggest concern, 16 doses out of millions

16 that you know about.

jill_valentine wrote: »

We're realistically talking about 5 doses here,

5 that you know about.

Again, if it is as easy as this to game the system then we will be talking about a lot more than 5 or 16.

Green Peter

jill_valentine wrote: »

It doesn't, really. If you were asked to round up 16 people in an hour at 9.00 at night with medical histories you were broadly familiar with, who are the first 16 you'd get? Could you even find 9 70 year olds?

It was always the plan to give it to theses people, this is Ireland. We are rotten to the core.

jill_valentine

Kimbot wrote: »

But the thing is how were these 16 people who were not due a vaccine were hanging around when the spares became available.

70 year olds aren't huge party animals. 9 of them get driven in by the nearest person handy, that's easily 16.

iamwhoiam

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Is this really peoples biggest concern, 16 doses out of millions that will be distributed.
No, the problem is we need more vaccine and fast for everyone lets not lose our collective minds over something so trivial

I don’t think its the actual amount of doses that is the issue to be fair . Its the perceived unfairness that will of course irritate people .

quokula

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who doesn't see the problem here is being wilfully ignorant.

"Sure they were going to waste anyway"

That excuse is clearly and obviously wide open to abuse.

Can we trust that it was actually true? That the doctor didn't intentionally leave a few to the side or fiddle the numbers to leave himself with a surplus?

"Why did you give the vaccine to 10 of your golfing buddies?" "Sure they were going to waste anyway". How convenient.

Well sure, it was terrible if you're going to ignore what actually happened and make up conspiracy theories instead.

Nozebleed

begbysback wrote: »

It’s outrageous that people are outraged, it’s a handful of vaccines which were going to waste and somebody innocently tried to put to some use instead of into the bin.[/QUOTE

the master of the coombe is clearly using the dumping of the vaccines as an excuse to treat his own family members.

the man cant be trusted and has to resign.

breadmonster

This is going to be a comedy when all the local politicians get involved down the line, friends and family first

Kimbot

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Were they hanging around though? Thought it was family members working there.

I still don't see how angry people are though. Would there not be spares with every facility vaccinators go to? There could be someone out sick or self isolating on the day they were due to get theirs. Why let a vaccine go to waste?

Well I dont know of 9 people over the age of 70 working in a hospital...... so I dont think the family members worked there except the masters 2 sons which is only 2 out of 16.

There are nurses working in prisons that easily would have travelled and their jobs would have accommodated them to travel etc to ensure they were vaccinated.

c.p.w.g.w

Amirani wrote: »

There's a lot of stuff to unpick in this story. But on this; the vaccine once mixed can't be transported, it had to stay on site. So driving it 30 minutes away wasn't an option.

Staff at other hospitals are busy too, they can't just swan off for 2 hours to go to another hospital unexpectedly.

Well then bring those frontline workers to the hospital

jill_valentine

bucketybuck wrote: »

16 that you know about.

5 that you know about.

Again, if it is as easy as this to game the system then we will be talking about a lot more than 5 or 16.

These 16 doses effectively did not exist until 1000 other people were dosed. Nobody is missing out because a handful of people got the scraps of stuff we've accounted for.

elefant

Russman wrote: »

And if they rang the local Garda Station, Fire Station or another hospital, how would those places manage to select 16 people without accusations of favouritism ?
They had already gotten 104 additional people for the 120 doses they were left with.

I'm not talking about calling up other stations or hospitals.

I mean that if there were 7 people in the whole hospital under 70 years old who received surplus vaccines, it seems quite the coincidence that 2 of them were the children of the person in charge. They should have known to avoid this unless there was no other option, and I don't think it's being clever in hindsight to suggest it.