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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 23/9/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
lawrencesummers
RIGOLO

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Water John

When a mob turns up at a properly convened democratic parliament to defy the election of a leader, that counts as sedition and terrorism.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have never attempted to shoot a Talib just for being in the Taliban. The ones who were doing such, though, (at least the bomb planters, I never encountered anyone attempting to decapitate) were another matter.

You invaded their country because some of them were terrorists.

AMKC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Gael23 wrote: »

The woman shot in the chest has succumbed to her injuries

Well if she was a Trump supporter she has no one else to blame but herself which is sad and if not it's very sad.

ProudDUB

dogbert27 wrote: »

Every sane person knew Pence didn't have the power to what Trump wanted him to do but the MAGA supporters believe everything Trump says and it fed in to what has been happening today.

He could have not shown up as a sign of support to Trump. Biden would have still been certified.
Pence publicly stated that his duty is to protect the constitution over a president which was an FU to Trump so fair play to him for finally showing some backbone

Backbone?

Oh please.

He's merely taking steps to preserve what little political capital he has left and safeguard any future career in the post Trump days. I'll be holding off on the applause for now.

Midlife

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'd just like to pause at this moment here for a brief recap.

On the matter of the protestors in congress, which started this thread off.

I am being exorciated here for my opinion for...

Not that I think these protestors are idiots
Not that I think that they are acting criminally
Not that I believe they should gain no immunity from arrest or prosecution.
Not that I have no problem with the idea that soldiers and police in full equipment will be used to reestablish order using any and all means necessary
Not that I have no issue that a woman, presumably unarmed, was shot for failing to follow police instruction
... or any other matter relevant to the incident.

Which are all beliefs I have, and some of which would equally see me lambasted for in discussion of other incidents over the past year...

But because I believe that the use of the term terrorism, a particularly vile act, should be reserved for activities of a very particular nature and should not be used with abandon.

Given this, the amount of credibility i care for from you can be inserted up a fourth point of contact.

I think a simple sum up is that terroism is use of violence for political ends.

A lot of the people marching into the capitol. Not terrorists.

But the pepper spray, pipe bombs, violence. Terrorists.

However focusing on the former is kind of the 'very fine people'.

Once the latter get involved the former don't matter anymore.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'd just like to pause at this moment here for a brief recap.

On the matter of the protestors in congress, which started this thread off.

I am being exorciated here for my opinion for...

Not that I think these protestors are idiots
Not that I think that they are acting criminally
Not that I believe they should gain no immunity from arrest or prosecution.
Not that I have no problem with the idea that soldiers and police in full equipment will be used to reestablish order using any and all means necessary
Not that I have no issue that a woman, presumably unarmed, was shot for failing to follow police instruction
... or any other matter relevant to the incident.

Which are all beliefs I have, and some of which would equally see me lambasted for in discussion of other incidents over the past year...

But because I believe that the use of the term terrorism, a particularly vile act, should be reserved for activities of a very particular nature and should not be used with abandon.

Given this, the amount of credibility i care for from you can be inserted up a fourth point of contact.

So what do you define terrorism to be? Attacking the state, attacking police, invading government buildings would all be part of what I would think of as terrorism

Manic Moran

steddyeddy wrote: »

And by your logic it appears the Taliban cant all be painted with the same brush because they don't all plant bombs and decapitate people.

I have never attempted to shoot a Talib just for being in the Taliban. The ones who were doing such, though, (at least the bomb planters, I never encountered anyone attempting to decapitate) were another matter.

AMKC

Very sad to see what happened in America today but then with Trump there it's also very sad that no of it surprised me. The World is in danger as long as Trump is still there so hopefully now the Domocratic and Republican party ask Trump to stand down and leave sooner rather than later.

Gael23

The woman shot in the chest has succumbed to her injuries

Manic Moran

rosser44 wrote: »

Any credibility you had on this site is totally destroyed Manic.

And "they" are the trump/republican terrorists that just perpetrated a terrorist attack on the US Government

I'd just like to pause at this moment here for a brief recap.

On the matter of the protestors in congress, which started this thread off.

I am being exorciated here for my opinion for...

Not that I think these protestors are idiots
Not that I think that they are acting criminally
Not that I believe they should gain no immunity from arrest or prosecution.
Not that I have no problem with the idea that soldiers and police in full equipment will be used to reestablish order using any and all means necessary
Not that I have no issue that a woman, presumably unarmed, was shot for failing to follow police instruction
... or any other matter relevant to the incident.

Which are all beliefs I have, and some of which would equally see me lambasted for in discussion of other incidents over the past year...

But because I believe that the use of the term terrorism, a particularly vile act, should be reserved for activities of a very particular nature and should not be used with abandon.

Given this, the amount of credibility i care for from you can be inserted up a fourth point of contact.

paul71

That lady is now confirmed dead. There can be no doubt who is responsible for her death, Donald Trump. I sincerely hope it is the last tonight.

steddyeddy

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.

And by your logic it appears the Taliban cant all be painted with the same brush because they don't all plant bombs and decapitate people.

EltonJohn69

Kiith wrote: »

Pence changed his Twitter profile pic to Biden and Harris and unfollowed Trump :P

https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence

The Trump - Pence bromance is over

dogbert27

Leroy42 wrote: »

Pence did nothing today. He simply stated that he had no power to do anything

Every sane person knew Pence didn't have the power to what Trump wanted him to do but the MAGA supporters believe everything Trump says and it fed in to what has been happening today.

He could have not shown up as a sign of support to Trump. Biden would have still been certified.
Pence publicly stated that his duty is to protect the constitution over a president which was an FU to Trump so fair play to him for finally showing some backbone

BonnieSituation

froog wrote: »

they have to ban him. every tweet now will be inciting violence.

They have now disabled comments and "likes" on some of his tweets to stop inciting the mob.

ProudDUB

wandererz wrote: »

The biggest legacy that Mike Pence could leave and to entrench himself in history is invoking the above.

He did a great thing today standing up to Trump.
He should go that one step further.

A great thing? Shag that.

He simply stated a fact. He does not have the legal power or ability to do what Trump wanted him to do. It's not like he took some noble moral stand here, despite all the bells and whistles of the manner in which he released his statement and, all that sanctimonious guff about swearing an oath.

He stood idly by for 4 years and supported Trump in everything the creep did. Todays statement doesn't change that. Pence gets no pats on the back from me today.

Faugheen

Leroy42 wrote: »

Pence did nothing today. He simply stated that he had no power to do anything

Apparently he's the one who gave the go-ahead to deploy the National Guard.

Doctors room ghost

15 minutes to curfew.
Live stand off on cnn.
It’s about to kick off lads

Leroy42

wandererz wrote: »

The biggest legacy that Mike Pence could leave and to entrench himself in history is invoking the above.

He did a great thing today standing up to Trump.
He should go that one step further.

Pence did nothing today. He simply stated that he had no power to do anything

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Imagine marching to “Save America” & decide the most efficient way; bombing The Capitol building. This is absolutely domestic terrorism.

Senators I heard are calling it insurerction.

Reminds me of star trek

Itssoeasy

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.

Well why is it being reported only within the last while that it’s only being activated ? They might have approved the request but clearly didn’t go beyond that. Also read Donald trumps comments at the rally where he more or less gave the people there permission to act the bollocks at the US capital. The US for years has looked at scenes like this in other countries with condemnation yet here it’s happened in their own country. Whatever moral high ground the US had(or perceived themselves to have) is gone. Also, there was a note left in one office which said “we will not back down” so it doesn’t seem like they’ve had their jollies and are off home.

Water John

It seems Pence has coordinated the police response having consulted the Congress leaders.

gmisk

paul71 wrote: »

2 bombs have been found, that means they bought the materials required in advance and went to the capital with intent, police were sprayed with chemicals to assist the storming of barriers, a guy absailed onto the floor of the senate from the viewing gallery, the equipment for the chemical irritant was bought in advance and brought there with intent.

A trained police officer shot someone because he felt it was necessary. Hundreds of people in the crowd are clothed in items used by riot police, they came with the intent to riot and fight someone, ie the police.

Your assertions are simply not credible and are biased based on support of liar who has incited this by saying things like "stand down and stand by" and "wild protest".

Don't forget the weapons...and the guy with cable ties.

Detritus70

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.

Thank you for your reply.
By not taking a stand, you are taking a stand.
No need for further replies, you're obviously happy with goings on at the moment.

wandererz

wandererz wrote: »

Article II, Section 1, Clause 6 stipulates that the vice president takes over the "powers and duties" of the presidency in the event of a president's removal, death, resignation, or inability.

The biggest legacy that Mike Pence could leave and to entrench himself in history is invoking the above.

He did a great thing today standing up to Trump.
He should go that one step further.

paul71

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

2 bombs have been found, that means they bought the materials required in advance and went to the capital with intent, police were sprayed with chemicals to assist the storming of barriers, a guy absailed onto the floor of the senate from the viewing gallery, the equipment for the chemical irritant was bought in advance and brought there with intent.

A trained police officer shot someone because he felt it was necessary. Hundreds of people in the crowd are clothed in items used by riot police, they came with the intent to riot and fight someone, ie the police.

Your assertions are simply not credible and are biased based on support of liar who has incited this by saying things like "stand down and stand by" and "wild protest".

rosser44

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.

Any credibility you had on this site is totally destroyed Manic.

And "they" are the trump/republican terrorists that just perpetrated a terrorist attack on the US Government

Lirange

Christy42 wrote: »

Links? I know of one in the RNC but can't see news on the other 1.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_a8427f16f5c09d46e0dcff011e3d48c0

1 hr ago
At least two real explosive devices in DC rendered safe by law enforcement
From CNN's Pervaiz Shallwani

At least two suspected pipe bombs have been rendered safe by law enforcement — one at a building that houses Republican National Committee offices and one in the US Capitol complex, a federal law enforcement official tells CNN

The official said these were real explosive devices and they were blown up to be rendered safe.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

You are still comparing with events that are no where near as comparable. You can see that these events are not the same as the running of the Italian parliament right? Like not in the same stratosphere.

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

How was the pipe bomb different from Omagh? Aside from the fact that they found the pipe bomb on time?

It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The capitol police were sitting ducks it seems because the mayor of DC asked for the DC national guard to be activated, but the DC national guard isn't like others because DC isn’t a state so no governor to order this. It goes through either the DOJ or DOD and it seems they didn’t agree to the request.

As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

They planted explosives in the heart of the US government Manic, they are terrorists.

Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.