The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

ooter wrote: »

We all say stuff when we've had a few pints, ask Tim O'Leary.

No pints here. I suppose it is much easier pretending you wont answer a question rather than admitting you cant. It is a sad state of affairs though. It is an interesting debate to have, some people just seem to not be brave enough to have it.

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It is all coming across now as rather bitter Mayo fans. Probably understandable at this stage but it’s a bit too easy that they can call out for all kinds of amalgamations and splits safe in the knowledge that they won’t be touched either way so they’ll still have their team and nearly everyone else will have to change. Getting Dublin split and winning an all Ireland would make it a cheap one.

You are using very skewed logic that, when viewed objectively, makes no sense.
Basically, you are annoyed because counties who are doing the thing correctly wont be split up. Why would they be?

If mayo were in dublins position, Id support the idea of splitting mayo. That is because it makes complete sense and the teams would probably still be winning all irelands.

No. 'Nearly everyone else' would not have to change. This is not true in the slightest. Dublin gets split up. 2-3 optional amalgamations can be offered to outlier counties, that is it. Very simple. The vast majority left untouched and could be put in place by the morning.

JeffKenna wrote: »

It comes across to me as goading of Mayo fans.

This is deliberate jeffkenna. If guys can goad the poster into a personalised response, akin to their own, they can drag the debate away from the questions they fear answering.
It is clear they recognise the truth in the points made. Thats why nobody actually tries to make a defence. You can imagine if someone questioned something which you believed in - you would defend it. There is nobody doing that here. The wins are hollow and dublin should probably be split, and they know it. They cant even make a single valid argument as to why it isnt the case.

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

This is deliberate jeffkenna. If guys can goad the poster into a personalised response, akin to their own, they can drag the debate away from the questions they fear answering.
It is clear they recognise the truth in the points made. Thats why nobody actually tries to make a defence. You can imagine if someone questioned something which you believed in - you would defend it. There is nobody doing that here. The wins are hollow and dublin should probably be split, and they know it.

You are the one goading posters , you believe the wins are hollow and Dublin should be split , thats your opinion and your entitled to it
It is my opinion the wins came from being the best team with the best players
And no i dont know that Dublin should be split , I think the way forward is amalgamations , eg Mayo/Galway

seligehgit

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are all paid and paid very well at that. They try to skirt around it by benefit in kind setups, but they also get paid. If you believe anything else you are either a fool or have a vested interest. Turkeys wont vote for christmas and from what we can see here, they have a vast collection of turkeys in the capital. You seem to think that people should believe what the likes of pat gilroy has to say - one of the main beneficiaries in the charade and dublins answer to donald trump. Are you for real? People arent so stupid man.

Laugh away all you like, what does that actually change? What I said is still true. Your response only shows your own lack of character. Id take my hat off to any dub that has it about them to not tow the party line and just tell the truth.

Strumms wrote: »

Provide us with verifiable links, as to who is paid, how much and for doing what... You have made the allegations, so prove it. Let’s all see.

My lack of character ? Right, you certainly are one to be judging character around here, Jesus. :pac:

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is common knowledge that management are paid. You say the dubs arent. Can you prove it?
Also, what exactly is a 'verifiable link' in your mind? Any links to websites for either argument will just be denied...

Strumms wrote: »

If you accuse someone of something, the burden of proof is on you to share the evidence. You’ve not even attempted to do that.

What’s a verifiable link ? Jesus, Verifiable documentation or information that shows that Dublin players, coaches etc are financially rewarded to play or be involved with their county...

I don’t have to prove anything as I haven’t alleged anything. You on the other hand !

Even if you found a document that suggested they got a free night out with a meal and some drinks at Christmas courtesy of the county board might be a start... imagine that :eek:

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well you have alledged that no person involved with dublin is paid, to be fair. You sre the guy who is hung up on verifiable evidence, so will you be practicing what you preach?

Strumms wrote: »

No, you made the allegation of something specific to do with Dublin GAA. You were requested to back that up. You can’t or won’t.

If you a accuse me of murder, the burden of proof is on you, not on me to prove my innocence, on you to prove I’m guilty.... simple. You don’t understand ok, don’t ‘get it’ ok, but that’s how it is, sorry about that.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

And you made the opposing allegation...
You are also the guy hung up of proof, and the burden of proof, so by all means, practice it.

Personally, I recognise that what you are referencing is relating to a court of law, which this is not, just as I am not on trial here either. I realise also, that reams of proof has been offered as to why dublin are successful now, mainly due to financial doping, and yet people still refuse to accept it, so proof on here means little.
However, you seem to be a big believer in it, so by all means, get to it.

To my mind, if you truly believe that dublin's staff dont get paid, then you are a very naive person

Mod Note

MayoAreMagic

You made the initial allegation that parties around the Dublin setup are getting paid so the onus is on you to provide the evidence of same.

All posters:

Attacking posters as opposed to posts will result in sanctions going forward.

There have been very few Dublin fans on this thread who have even attempted to justify the huge sums of money spent by Dublin GAA. This is replicated in real life. The only arguments appear to be based around whataboutery or the utterly disrespectful lie that Dublin have better volunteers than everyone else.

Dublin spend millions every year, literally millions. Just team preparations, salaries and administrative expenses alone costs 5.5 million a year. Dublin have won 100 titles across codes since they were granted government money to pay for coaches for the majority of clubs.

These are facts. We all know they're facts, including Dublin supporters. What are we meant to do? Pretend we don't know about the financial details of Dublin GAA? Pretend that Dublin just had an amazing one off team for their senior footballers, ladies footballers, senior hurlers, u20 hurlers and footballers, minor hurlers and footballers and multiple club teams hurlers and footballers. This all happened in the past 20 years, the same time that the huge number of professional coaches entered clubs but we have to pretend they aren't connected?

Come on. We all know it. This is not bitterness, it's looking at the actual facts and facing reality. This can't continue.

I would love to see a definitive breakdown of the alleged salaries Dublin players and officials are receiving. The figure just keeps growing with some posters but but with zero proof.

ShyMets

Personally I think this thread has ran its course for now. All arguments and counter-arguments have been made and we just seem to be going around in circles.

We all know change is coming but what that change will look like, none of us know. But I do think that the Championship will look different in the next 5-10 years. Weather its for the better or not remains to be seen

Anyway that's me signing off for now

ArielAtom wrote: »

I would love to see a definitive breakdown of the alleged salaries Dublin players and officials are receiving. The figure just keeps growing with some posters but but with zero proof.

The Dublin county board accounts from 2016 were posted on St sylvesters GAA website. The figure for wages and salaries was over 2 million for 2016 and 2015. Team preparations cost over 1.5 million in 2015 and 2016. All the other expenses are there too. Do you not believe the Dublin county board official accounts?

dunnerc wrote: »

You are the one goading posters , you believe the wins are hollow and Dublin should be split , thats your opinion and your entitled to it
It is my opinion the wins came from being the best team with the best players
And no i dont know that Dublin should be split , I think the way forward is amalgamations , eg Mayo/Galway

When you balance out the pros and cons of amalgamations and splits in the context of the gaa, it is clear to any reasonable-minded person that less is more, and that getting rid of the county divisions entirely, and in particular amalgamations, would take away a lot of what the gaa is about. Most suggesting this option know this already. They dont truely believe that it is a viable option, it is more that they want to tear the thing down rather than change themselves, regardless of it being the completely sensible and correct thing to do, in that spoilt child mode again.
Objectively speaking kerry have either average or slightly above average population. They have reached a level that is, pound for pound, far superior to that of dublin. Clearly, the correct way forward is to go with this figure and roll out the kerry system rather than the dublin one. It also allows most counties to remain intact and creates the least amount of upheaval outside of what is unavoidable.
All the common sense points to splitting dublin.

ShyMets wrote: »

Personally I think this thread has ran its course for now. All arguments and counter-arguments have been made and we just seem to be going around in circles.

We all know change is coming but what that change will look like, none of us know. But I do think that the Championship will look different in the next 5-10 years. Weather its for the better or not remains to be seen

Anyway that's me signing off for now

I think that's what the aim is. This thread is a reflection of what's happening in the media and within the GAA hierarchy. Dublin GAA and HQ want this topic to disappear or brushed under the carpet. I'm sorry but it can't be just ignored. I urge anyone interested in fair play to bring this up at club meetings, bring this to the attention of your county boards. Provide them with the facts and figures. We can't let this continue.

ShyMets

Enquiring wrote: »

I think that's what the aim is. This thread is a reflection of what's happening in the media and within the GAA hierarchy. Dublin GAA and HQ want this topic to disappear or brushed under the carpet. I'm sorry but it can't be just ignored. I urge anyone interested in fair play to bring this up at club meetings, bring this to the attention of your county boards. Provide them with the facts and figures. We can't let this continue.

One final response. Then I promise I'm gone. I agree with some of the below. Change needs to happen and it cannot be ignored. These changes whatever they are will need to be driven by the grassroots.

I just don't think making the same arguments and counter-arguments on an anonymous internet forum is hugely productive. I understand that it generates debate. I just feel we've got to the point where's there's little left to debate.

Best of luck to all. I'll check back in at a later date

dunnerc wrote: »

So you keep repeating over and over again

It is the topic of the thread. Why havent you attempted to counter it in all your posts on same thread is the pertinent question

ooter

Every time it's countered with the non dominance of the dublin senior hurlers it's either ignored or excused.
It's the inconvenient truth, the elephant in the room.
Tipp, kilkenny, limerick, waterford, galway, are any of those counties at a disadvantage when they take to the field against dublin in senior hurling?
Senior hurling now, nothing else. Let's face it, this thread wouldn't even exist if the dublin senior footballers weren't winning all irelands.

ooter wrote: »

Every time it's countered with the non dominance of the dublin senior hurlers it's either ignored or excused.
It's the inconvenient truth, the elephant in the room.
Tipp, kilkenny, limerick, waterford, galway, are any of those counties at a disadvantage when they take to the field against dublin in senior hurling?
Senior hurling now, nothing else. Let's face it, this thread wouldn't even exist if the dublin senior footballers weren't winning all irelands.

That simply isnt true though. Two people addressed it yesterday evening alone.

Re dublin winning - the thread wouldnt exist if they werent completely running away with the thing with a ridiculous level of funds and thus new players coming online every year. That is the reason for the thread and it is valid. I dont see what point you are making. The fact that people wouldnt mind the total unfairness of the thing if the all ireland was just shared around a bit more, only highlights how reasonable non dubs are regarding dublin. By right they should probably be demanding the same for everyone with no excuses.

Dublin are said to be the best team of all time, yet 2-3 young lads break into starting births most years. For anyone else, if they had created the best team of all time, the same lads would be starting for 12 years. Any bit of objectively at all will show that thing thing doesnt compute and to suggest that this is down to better volunteers is in fact, highly insulting. If the volunteers were that great then why did they need so much government funds, let alone gaa funds?

I get that dublin fans want to keep winning, but they need to realise how hollow these wins actually are and what sport is actually meant to be.

ooter

I'll take the ignoring of the question and deflection as a no, they are not at any disadvantage when they take to the field against dublin in senior hurling.

ooter wrote: »

I'll take the ignoring of the question and deflection as a no, they are not at any disadvantage when they take to the field against dublin in senior hurling.

Your question was answered twice. Maybe you should try answering a few yourself before trying to get up on a high horse.

I see your argument as ridiculous to be honest. What you are saying is basically, ignore all those wins in all those other age groups and codes etc. Stop looking at them, they dont count. But how come they havent won this one specific one (where admittedly they have made huge strides)? Aha, point proven!

It is a shamefully bad argument to be making...

diceyreilly

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’m backing Cork to break Dublins winning streak with Mike Ashley’s millions backing them now.

The lads on off the ball will want it split 32 ways.

Seriously.

JeffKenna

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’m backing Cork to break Dublins winning streak with Mike Ashley’s millions backing them now.

€2m over 5 years doesn't come close to what Dublin receive.

JeffKenna wrote: »

€2m over 5 years doesn't come close to what Dublin receive.

It’s only for the lads. Camogie and ladies football can paddle their own canoe. So it is very much inline with Dublins sponsorship deal.

theguzman

JeffKenna wrote: »

€2m over 5 years doesn't come close to what Dublin receive.

Dublin are getting many multiples of this every year!

theguzman wrote: »

Dublin are getting many multiples of this every year!

Can you show where the many multiples are? Cork are getting 400k for hurling and football.

dobman88

Tbf, for any argument around funding to have any credibility, a countys private sponsorship should never be brought into it. Only what a county gets directly from Croke Park should be up for debate imo.

AIG, Kerry Group, Sports Direct, JP McManus, whatever etc etc. That's between the company and county privately. And it 100% definitely should not be pooled between every county. That's what central funding should be for.

The White Feather

According to Fintan O'Toole here, its half the value of Dublin's AIG deal

https://twitter.com/fotoole13/status/1345685879562625027?s=19

The White Feather wrote: »

According to Fintan O'Toole here, its half the value of Dublin's AIG deal

https://twitter.com/fotoole13/status/1345685879562625027?s=19

The word according to Fintan. Dublins is across 4 codes, Corks across 2.

dobman88 wrote: »

Tbf, for any argument around funding to have any credibility, a countys private sponsorship should never be brought into it. Only what a county gets directly from Croke Park should be up for debate imo.

AIG, Kerry Group, Sports Direct, JP McManus, whatever etc etc. That's between the company and county privately. And it 100% definitely should not be pooled between every county. That's what central funding should be for.

Dob, I was merely pointing out that Tis not only Dublin in receipt of sponsorship. HNY to you and yours.

dobman88

ArielAtom wrote: »

Dob, I was merely pointing out that Tis not only Dublin in receipt of sponsorship. HNY to you and yours.

Aye. I get that. Many happy returns.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Can you show where the many multiples are? Cork are getting 400k for hurling and football.

Dublin received €2,170,250 in sponsorship money for 2019. So Dublin get more in a year than what Cork are receiving for the total of their deal.

dobman88 wrote: »

Tbf, for any argument around funding to have any credibility, a countys private sponsorship should never be brought into it. Only what a county gets directly from Croke Park should be up for debate imo.

AIG, Kerry Group, Sports Direct, JP McManus, whatever etc etc. That's between the company and county privately. And it 100% definitely should not be pooled between every county. That's what central funding should be for.

Can inter county competitions continue when some counties can receive and spend millions every year while other counties are spending tiny fractions of that?