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Do dating 'leagues' exist?

harrymcgowan

Some say they do and others don't. Basically can an unattractive, low earning guy score an attractive high earning woman?

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Sonic the Shaghog

Dial Hard wrote: »

I have a good job, live in a nice gaff, drive a nice car and the only reason I'm "still" single is because I'm happy out and it will take a pretty special man to turn my head.

Nothing to do with you at all, just it's something I hear lots of women mention when moaning they can't get a fella and it reminded me.

Am I the only man that doesn't think one iota of the above? The fit, funny etc stuff is the important but I don't think I know a single fella that places any importance on a whether a woman has good job, nice car or nice house? I couldn't care less whether they were a cleaner living in a council house. I can understand if say they are unemployed by choice or something

Just curious on other lads here if the above is important to them

Like I'd actually be more wary of someone that was attracted to such stuff. Like your one recession away from losing all that and then where does that leave you with said partner? Or say if your nice things came from a ridiculously stressful high pay job that you needed to leave for mental or physical health reasons and take a lower job. Or maybe you just ended up hating it and wanted to switch to lower paying career that you were more passionate about and it meant that Audi has to be swapped for a Yaris and the nice house needs to be sold for smaller one

JeffKenna

anewme wrote: »

Why?

Soccer is a strange game.

Strumms

I’ve seen average looking women with decent / good looking guys but the opposite tends to be quite rare..

Mickey_James

anewme wrote: »

Why?

Suppose it's like the in play betting in football!

The young man is like Sunderland and the young woman is like Barcelona. At the start of the game Barcelona are odds on favourite, 90 minutes to go, the ball is in their court. Barcelona are fancied by everyone and Sunderland have no chance of getting anything.

As the game goes on, no one has scored (man and woman are still single). The odds go higher for the lady and shorter for the man. Entering the 90th minute, still no score and the woman is now in desperate need of a goal (man to have baby with). Barcelonas odds are now very much against them while Sunderland are odds on to get something.

Women often go for older men, so men in their 30s have more, further in their career, house etc so the women can get all that aswell.

Mickey_James

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

Nothing to do with you at all, just it's something I hear lots of women mention when moaning they can't get a fella and it reminded me.

Am I the only man that doesn't think one iota of the above? The fit, funny etc stuff is the important but I don't think I know a single fella that places any importance on a whether a woman has good job, nice car or nice house? I couldn't care less whether they were a cleaner living in a council house. I can understand if say they are unemployed by choice or something

Just curious on other lads here if the above is important to them

Like I'd actually be more wary of someone that was attracted to such stuff. Like your one recession away from losing all that and then where does that leave you with said partner? Or say if your nice things came from a ridiculously stressful high pay job that you needed to leave for mental or physical health reasons and take a lower job. Or maybe you just ended up hating it and wanted to switch to lower paying career that you were more passionate about and it meant that Audi has to be swapped for a Yaris and the nice house needs to be sold for smaller one

I'm single and haven't been in a relationship but if I was looking for someone for a serious relationship, it might make me feel like I have to pay for everything. That's the kinda person I am. Same with the car, I'd feel like I'd have to bring them everywhere.

Dial Hard

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

Nothing to do with you at all, just it's something I hear lots of women mention when moaning they can't get a fella and it reminded me.

Am I the only man that doesn't think one iota of the above? The fit, funny etc stuff is the important but I don't think I know a single fella that places any importance on a whether a woman has good job, nice car or nice house? I couldn't care less whether they were a cleaner living in a council house. I can understand if say they are unemployed by choice or something

Just curious on other lads here if the above is important to them

Likewise, this isn't aimed at you but there seems to be virtually no middle ground on these threads between "lazy, gold-digging bitches who never worked a day in their life and just churned out kids for the social" and "uppity 'Independent Wimmin' who want a gold medal for having their own money, the ball breakers".

It's a lil bit exhausting, I'm not going to lie.

[Deleted User]

Dial Hard wrote: »

I married in my 20s because I was head over heels in love with my ex. I never wanted children. I knew that, he knew that, everyone knew that. And all was good in the world for years. Unfortunately, he changed his mind and the inevitable happened.

Fast forward several years. I'm single at 38 and yes, I consider myself "a catch" (whatever that means). I'm fun, funny, fit, financially independent, emotionally independent. I have a good job, live in a nice gaff, drive a nice car and the only reason I'm "still" single is because I'm happy out and it will take a pretty special man to turn my head.

Not because I'm picky, not because I'm a princess, not because I'm looking for some unicorn-like creature who can tick a load of arbitrary boxes. I'm quite simply not particularly pushed or rushed and I've no interest in settling. If it happens, it happens and if it doesn't, it doesn't.

Fair play to you. That’s an incredibly healthy attitude to being single. You sound like a very together person who knows exactly what you want and where your life is going.

Hope you don’t mind me saying this, but being 100% certain that children are not on the agenda is going to be a major roadblock for a huge number of men in their 30s and 40s. When I was in my 20s, most of my mates were ambivalent about children. However, as we’ve moved through our 30s, all except one of our group has married and procreated. The last man standing recently got engaged and will likely navigate this path pretty soon.

I’ve seen threads on Boards before where a significant number of people are opposed to having children. The reality is though that a huge majority of men and women have that primal, biological urge to procreate.

Please note that is in no way a criticism of you. Like I said, your attitude is really admirable and a lot of God-awful relationships would be avoided if more people were capable of your independence of thought and spirit.

BorneTobyWilde

It does happen,

All madly in love and married.

JeffKenna

Dial Hard wrote: »

Likewise, this isn't aimed at you but there seems to be virtually no middle ground on these threads between "lazy, gold-digging bitches who never worked a day in their life and just churned out kids for the social" and "uppity 'Independent Wimmin' who want a gold medal for having their own money, the ball breakers".

It's a lil bit exhausting, I'm not going to lie.

I would have thought both of those subsets of women were in the minority. Its only because they stand out for different reasons gets them noticed. Vast majority of women fall in between those two categories.

Mad_maxx

Ever watch " Our Yorkshire Farm " on chanell 5 ?

Reality serial about sheep farmers with eleven kids in the middle of nowhere in Yorkshire, she's a 6 ft t 1 model league beauty, he looks like a nerf herder who chewbaca might hang out with

anewme

Mickey_James wrote: »

Suppose it's like the in play betting in football!

The young man is like Sunderland and the young woman is like Barcelona. At the start of the game Barcelona are odds on favourite, 90 minutes to go, the ball is in their court. Barcelona are fancied by everyone and Sunderland have no chance of getting anything.

As the game goes on, no one has scored (man and woman are still single). The odds go higher for the lady and shorter for the man. Entering the 90th minute, still no score and the woman is now in desperate need of a goal (man to have baby with). Barcelonas odds are now very much against them while Sunderland are odds on to get something.

Women often go for older men, so men in their 30s have more, further in their career, house etc so the women can get all that aswell.

Would you not consider that women these days can get their own career house etc, so don't need to latch onto a man for that?

[Deleted User]

hynesie08 wrote: »

Leagues exist, but promotion is possible....

Nailed it. You'll always get the overachievers, like Greece winning the Euros in 2004, or Rod Stewart being with any of his girlfriends.

[Deleted User]

Mickey_James wrote: »

Suppose it's like the in play betting in football!

The young man is like Sunderland and the young woman is like Barcelona. At the start of the game Barcelona are odds on favourite, 90 minutes to go, the ball is in their court. Barcelona are fancied by everyone and Sunderland have no chance of getting anything.

As the game goes on, no one has scored (man and woman are still single). The odds go higher for the lady and shorter for the man. Entering the 90th minute, still no score and the woman is now in desperate need of a goal (man to have baby with). Barcelonas odds are now very much against them while Sunderland are odds on to get something.

Women often go for older men, so men in their 30s have more, further in their career, house etc so the women can get all that aswell.

Jaysus, that's as bad as Jeremy Corbyn's terrible football analogy in the last UK election. Brutal!

Ultrflat

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It does happen,

All madly in love and married.

She does not look like she even wants to be in that picture. I could be wrong but those eyes don't look like some one who is madly in love the Older woman looks like she almost see's her as a daughter. Its a creepy picture.

seamus

If you're in the market for a quickie, then physical attraction is largely the be-all and end-all.

For relationships, it's less of an issue. As we find ourselves more fond of another person, their physical attractiveness to us tends to grow.

The reverse is also true. People who are clearly objectively attractive can seem as sexually interesting as a wet towel if you don't like them as a person.

Money and attractiveness as factors in a relationship only matter as icebreakers, or if your criteria for a partner are very shallow.

If you're not physically a knockout (very few people are genuinely "ugly") and don't have overflowing pockets, then you need to work on your personality as your asset. Because long-term that's what'll get you a happy relationship with someone you want to fvck.

The 6'2" model with his own yacht might be able to bang a different airhead every week, but when he gets into his fifties he'll be a lonely old man surrounded by women half his age that he can't relate to.

Look even at Hugh Hefner. Infamous for his devotion to free love and polyamoury, even in his older years he sought a more sedate life with longer-term partners.
Even Hefner is an outsider in terms of rich men and their trophy wives. Most of them are more like Trump. Married to women who are basically prostitutes that hate their guts.

Thelonious Monk

I think normal people tend to just attract people of a similar grade of looks no? That changes if you become rich and/or famous though. With myself I always felt like I'm most attracted to people in a similar league to myself, good looking, stays in good shape, but a little battle worn looking, and by no means perfect, that's what I'm talking about.

Wibbs

Dial Hard wrote: »

Likewise, this isn't aimed at you but there seems to be virtually no middle ground on these threads between "lazy, gold-digging bitches who never worked a day in their life and just churned out kids for the social" and "uppity 'Independent Wimmin' who want a gold medal for having their own money, the ball breakers".

It's a lil bit exhausting, I'm not going to lie.

+1

And yep generally speaking leagues exist. There's a shedload of studies that show people overwhelmingly tend to pair up with "equal" in attractiveness. So if you get photos of couple ranked 1-10 in looks and jumble the pics up and get other people to match them up the 5's tend to be with the 5's the 8's with the 8's for the most part. Oddly people also tend to match up in facial proportions. So if you overlay photos of the men and women in the above, the ones that match more closely are more likely to be couples. We also seek out more different immune systems, which makes sense for the immune health of any kids in the mix.

Where things differ tends to be more on the men's side. Men can move up(and go down) the rankings more easily. Social "power" seems to be much of it. So money, renown, social status or lack of them impact their "rankings". With women not nearly so much. Like Sonic the Shaghog noted above; I don't think I know a single fella that places any importance on a whether a woman has good job, nice car or nice house? While some men would factor that sorta thing in, the above are generally way down the list of yay/nay in attractiveness and it's much more about looks. Even emotional stability can be down the list. How many men go out with complete headmelts but stick around because she's better looking?

The same "power" factors would be far more in play for women. So if you see a good looking bloke with a woman who isn't the easiest on the eye chances are he's down on those factors so they still match up in overall attractiveness. Similar at play going the other direction with a guy well hit with the ugly stick with a woman who's a big mad ride.And like the guys going with good looking headmelts because they're good looking there are also women going out with rich and powerful headmelts because they're rich and powerful.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

Money and attractiveness as factors in a relationship only matter as icebreakers, or if your criteria for a partner are very shallow.

Then it seems most people are shallow as they overwhelmingly tend to go for their equals in attractiveness.

If you're not physically a knockout (very few people are genuinely "ugly") and don't have overflowing pockets, then you need to work on your personality as your asset. Because long-term that's what'll get you a happy relationship with someone you want to fvck.

That's true enough.

The 6'2" model with his own yacht might be able to bang a different airhead every week, but when he gets into his fifties he'll be a lonely old man surrounded by women half his age that he can't relate to.

Or he'll have far more choice than the 5'2" guy in a bedsit throughout his life including later in life. Whether he exercises that choice wisely in another matter. There are men who "do a George Clooney", sow their wild oats and then settle down in middle age with above average looking and younger women.

Even Hefner is an outsider in terms of rich men and their trophy wives. Most of them are more like Trump. Married to women who are basically prostitutes that hate their guts.

IMHO that's more of a wish fulfilment for some. That the rich guy with the good looking missus are both miserable. It works for the likes of Trump alright who is a thundering muppet regardless of his money and his wife who saw a very quick rise from rags to riches. I know two couples that are similar. Obviously on a smaller scale, but the guys are very well off and older than their partners who are well above average in looks and both couples are happy out and have been for donkey's years. One couple in particular garnered the same "she's only with him for his money/he's only with her because of her youth and looks" and yet they're in better shape relationship wise than most I know.

completedit

Exactly. I think the reason those relationships are healthy because the couple are aware of what's happening. The women doesn't rely on the man for everything or expect him to be amazing/interesting etc. all the time. He makes good money, he works hard, provides a good life and of course being human will have other good sides that we don't know about.

It's not for everyone but some people are just more pragmatic. Being beautiful isn't a virtue and I think that's why it repulses people when they see a beautiful women with an ugly guy(again it's never ugly in the forever alone sense) because we equate beauty with all other good characteristics.

I think it's about finding the right balance between romantic love and real love. People write off romantic love but I think it has its place. However, it puts a lot of expectations on relationships and the other person.

Thelonious Monk

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think I know a single fella that places any importance on a whether a woman has good job, nice car or nice house?

The having your sh*t together thing is important for me at this stage of my life (I'm 40). I mean it's a good way to gauge if we're similar types of people or not, so I would place some importance on the good job, being settled down somewhat and being ok money wise. It makes things far easier if you're on a level playing field. Nothing turns me on quite like a lady with a good health insurance package either, drool.

Ultrflat

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The having your sh*t together thing is important for me at this stage of my life (I'm 40). I mean it's a good way to gauge if we're similar types of people or not, so I would place some importance on the good job, being settled down somewhat and being ok money wise. It makes things far easier if you're on a level playing field. Nothing turns me on quite like a lady with a good health insurance package either, drool.

I'm 39 and coming into that stage of my life, where I'm "supposed to have my **** together". I'm getting there, I feel I'm at place where I can achieve my goals and dreams. Before hand I wasn't ready.

I have great working ethics I will happily work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. I don't feel a sense of urgency to go out and buy a house for 350,000.00 in a place I don't want to live in, or because that's what's expected. My home will be bought on my demands. It will be a home I want.

I would love to buy a studio apartment just so I have a place I can call home. Again its not viable for other reasons.

[Deleted User]

Strange to see some posts assume this thread is an excuse to bash women. The idea of 'leagues' applies to both genders. I think they do exist but I've never personally encountered it. When I was single I liked who I liked. If they were far more attractive than me and didn't reciprocate I never felt it was because they thought I was 'out of their league'. Ever.

The ability to be in a healthy relationship is definitely curtailed if you aren't mentally healthy yourself. Yes there are plenty of people with serious issues in serious relationships but I wonder how functional those relationships are.

The single biggest barrier to being part of a secure and loving couple isn't how you look or your job or your car or where you live or how you speak. It is yourself. I've posted this before but how you feel towards yourself determines almost everything.

Mickey_James

anewme wrote: »

Would you not consider that women these days can get their own career house etc, so don't need to latch onto a man for that?

I think women are far more gullible to fantasy. It's mostly women putting ****e up on facebook playing the fake happy family, perfect life type.

I'm part of a self build group on facebook and it's mad the amount of women who have notions. The hubby doing all the work and yer wan setting up insta accounts to share progress and bull****.

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange to see some posts assume this thread is an excuse to bash women.

Mickey_James wrote: »

I think women are far more gullible to fantasy. It's mostly women putting ****e up on facebook playing the fake happy family, perfect life type.

I'm part of a self build group on facebook and it's mad the amount of women who have notions. The hubby doing all the work and yer wan setting up insta accounts to share progress and bull****.

Indeed.

Surreptitious

anewme wrote: »

Indeed.

Yourman seems to have registered just to spout this crack in the thread.

[Deleted User]

I think the matter of "leagues" is only relevant when you're lacking the skills, experience, and self-confidence to deal with your desired gender. When you're young, you simply don't appreciate your interactions with others, worrying about the wrong things, entirely self-obsessed with weaknesses, or whatever is missing.

As time goes by, and more importantly, with experience, you gain the experience to understand others. You start to appreciate the individuality of others, and realise that there is some crossover with behavior, so you can match behaviors to increase the opportunity for success. It's a process in learning and adaptation.

I don't consider any person to be "out of my league". Not now. I'm in my 40s and there are obstacles. Age difference can be a problem but generally isn't too much of an issue, even when dating women 20 years younger than me. There are sometimes issues with wealth expectations, appearance etc, but these are all concerns related to that individual, rather than men/women as a whole. Culture plays a major role in this but again it comes down to the individual.

The skill is in understanding what influences people, testing others to see how they've been influenced (or not), and adjusting your behavior to produce the desired result. I get turned down. It happens. Nobody is 100% successful regardless of their appearance, wealth, or whatever. They simply choose the environment that suits them.

If you go to a high class/expensive bar, then likely the people there will be more interested in monetary wealth as being a qualifier. If you go to a grunge/rock type bar, then appearance, and/or knowledge becomes more important. If you're aiming to meet others through random encounters, then appearance is hugely important, but the ability to create a comfortable connection comes next.

The point being that it's not about leagues. It's about your ability to adapt to the individual you have just met. Some people won't be interested regardless of the circumstances. That's life.

Oh, as for the older rich guy with the younger woman... I know quite a few people in that situation, and while some fit the stereotypes, it's mostly on the surface. What is seen in the public eye. What happens in private is usually far different. I know many such relationships where the glue that binds them is not money related, even though, externally, most would consider it to be so. I think that's mostly a projection of jealousy by others though.. less about reality, and more about what people want it to be. So they can justify to themselves the state of their own lives.

I'm in my mid-40s now, and I'm single. I love my life. I don't date as I used to. I meet women, form friendships, and sometimes they evolve into sexual relationships. I've finally come to understand that the "friend" zone is not what people make it out to be. Alas, I suspect this is something people need to learn for themselves, rather than be told.. because it's easier to excuse our mistakes, than to recognise we've placed ourselves in that situation.

[Deleted User]

anewme wrote: »

Indeed.

Sure you'll always have those sorts.

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure you'll always have those sorts.

Yep and theres a fair few of those kind of attitudes, rather than a general discussion as here from some people.

There are a lot of...oh you wouldn't take me when I was in my twenties but now the tables have turned, ha ha ha ...kind of bitter type people and posts.

The reality is that most people have said, that people tend to gravitate towards people of similar attractiveness and social standing.

I also differ maybe in that I do believe income / lifestyle is an issue, for both men and women, especially as they get older and if they are still single, unless they are very wealthy, where money does not matter.

I'm comfortable enough for one person, but not enough for two, so would be looking for someone at the same kind of situation.
I'm a bit older, so maybe that's why.

Life can throw curve balls at you and people can lose their jobs, businesses, health etc and that's different, but I'm not sure I'd get involved with someone who was very boho for example (not sure if that makes sense) but we would have different values from the get go anyway

sbsquarepants

hynesie08 wrote: »

Leagues exist, but promotion is possible....

Promotion is the dream, the reality is i'm fighting relegation!

[Deleted User]

You again.