Enquiring wrote: » The myth is that the money was just for primary school children. That myth has been busted multiple times over. Completely obliterated. Why are you repeating something that has been shown to be false? Dublin have paid officers overseeing everything. Strategic development officers, hurling development officers, club development officers etc. Then they have the huge number of paid coaches that they've had for 2 decades now. These are professional structures that no one else has. This is before we get to the rest of the money by the way. Do you want to pretend to not know about the long list of sponsors Dublin have?
gaffer91 wrote: » Glad you are no longer trying to even argue that isn't an unfair advantage that benefits Dublin Countless tournaments have been ruined- Leinster, the All-Ireland. Dublin's dominance will last indefinitely. Five years ago you'd have said five in a row was impossible. All the necessary conditions are there for them to keep winning forever- funding, population, home pitch advantage etc. The point about rugby is that it is easy to generate support for new teams. All-Ireland finals and semi-finals shouldn't be in Croke Park if Dublin are playing as it's their home pitch and they get an unfair advantage for it. There won't be a meaningful inter-county competition in 10 years if Dublin aren't split.If we don't split Dublin the All-Ireland competition is ruined and it will die. It is currently in the process of dying. No-one will be watching, attending or caring in 10 years as Dublin will keep winning indefinitely built on a platform of unfair advantages. If we split Dublin into four we head off this problem. So splitting Dublin helps Limerick and Antrim by ensuring they still have a competition to play in and ensuring the survival of gaelic games at inter-county level. Splitting Dublin also helps Dublin, for the same reasons. Wembley isn't any London team's home ground. They only play there for the FA cup. Croke Park is Dublin's home ground.
ooter wrote: » Croke park is not Dublin's permanent home.https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1112567/
kilns wrote: » Give one reason how splitting Dublin would bring the weaker counties any closer to winning an All Ireland. The answer is zero. The gap will still the same between those counties and the like of Kerry Tyrone and Mayo. For example Why are Kerry more important than Longford? Longford gain nothing, Kerry suddenly gain everything if Dublin is weakened. There are about 3/4 counties who would benefit from Dublin splitting thats all, and I can understand selfish reasons to do so but it solves nothing unless there is a complete overhaul.
kilns wrote: » Proof that games development funding is going to these other areas not associated with games development of children please.... Yes Dublin have sponsorship, which pays for other things such as Brian Cullen etc but they dont have the exclusivity on big sponsorship, look at Kerry for example, they want for nothing in terms of sponsorship money and Kerry Group had no problem dropping 1 million Euro to pay for their centre of excellence. I am sure you have an issue with this also...
Bambi wrote: » Do you accept Spewan McKenna tweets as proof?
ArielAtom wrote: » Wow. Could you post a link where you have found out this nugget of information. I have never seen it.
kilns wrote: » Give one reason how splitting Dublin would bring the weaker counties any closer to winning an All Ireland. The answer is zero. The gap will still the same between those counties and the like of Kerry Tyrone and Mayo. For example Why are Kerry more important than Longford? Longford gain nothing, Kerry suddenly gain everything if Dublin is weakened. There are about 3/4 counties who would benefit from Dublin splitting thats all, and I can understand selfish reasons to do so but it solves nothing unless there is a complete overhaul. I would guess you would support spliting Cork in two also considering they have similar registered player numbers.....
Enquiring wrote: » I'm just going to copy and paste an earlier post I made because you're going to read this but still repeat the myth that the money was just for primary schools anyway. I see another myth has been posted in the last few pages. The games development funding was all for the kids in primary school. Rubbish. Along with paying for professional coaches, Dublin also had well paid strategic officers in place. Their strategic program manager, Kevin O'Shaughnessy, had this to say: "The coaches work very much in tune with what the particular club wants", the coaches all had to have a high level qualification: "It is a high standard that allows them to train the trainers in each club to a high quality." Dublin also have a coaching and games officer. A few years ago, the then coaching and games officer Ger O'Connor had this to say: "The coaches don't just concentrate on hurling or football. They organise everything within a club and camogie and ladies football get the benefit too." Once again illustrating why it's not just Dublin senior footballers that the money has benefitted. Also, it wasn't 2005 when this began, it was prior to that and we also have first hand testimony from an actual development officer with huge experience in Dublin GAA. This quote is from long serving Dublin GAA GPO/GDA Pauric McDonald on the differences he observed in development squads from when he set out 2 decades ago to the current time: "I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching. I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin." This all doesn't really sound like it's just a primary school operation to me. It's a multi layered system that has had huge benefits. The professional coaches had impacts on clubs right the way through, from the kids all the way up. Let's get a real example of this. Ballymun Kickams received the services of James Glancy. He was coaching the clubs minor team when he spotted 2 17 year olds called Dean Rock and James McCarthy. McCarthy in particular was very thin. Glancy assisted in getting gym equipment set up and watched over the transformation of McCarthy's physique. These were 2 talented players but were brought on again with the assistance of a development officer. Just one example again to show the help the money made. I don't believe Rock and McCarthy were still in primary school at 17 years of age.
Enquiring wrote: » I answered this question yesterday. You ignored the answer.
kilns wrote: » You have a fixation with primary school, once again, games development of the GAA from the ages 5 to under 18. The idea is to attract as many kids to the games and get them playing! Thats where the advantage lies and Dublin still havent cracked many parts of the city and it is very nice if you to pick out the very tiny percentage that benefitted from it rather than the 99% of children who will never see a county squad Care to answer any of the other points
kilns wrote: » No you didnt, you just restated Dublin should be split, first step... thats it You didnt address the imbalance that it would still leave
gaffer91 wrote: » Glad you are no longer trying to even argue that isn't an unfair advantage that benefits Dublin Countless tournaments have been ruined- Leinster, the All-Ireland. Dublin's dominance will last indefinitely. Five years ago you'd have said five in a row was impossible. All the necessary conditions are there for them to keep winning forever- funding, population, home pitch advantage etc.
The point about rugby is that it is easy to generate support for new teams.
All-Ireland finals and semi-finals shouldn't be in Croke Park if Dublin are playing as it's their home pitch and they get an unfair advantage for it.
There won't be a meaningful inter-county competition in 10 years if Dublin aren't split.
If we don't split Dublin the All-Ireland competition is ruined and it will die. It is currently in the process of dying. No-one will be watching, attending or caring in 10 years as Dublin will keep winning indefinitely built on a platform of unfair advantages. If we split Dublin into four we head off this problem.
So splitting Dublin helps Limerick and Antrim by ensuring they still have a competition to play in and ensuring the survival of gaelic games at inter-county level. Splitting Dublin also helps Dublin, for the same reasons.
Enquiring wrote: » Did you read my post? Specifically about the change on standards of the Dublin development squads, about how the professional coaches are used by the clubs in any way they see fit and a real life example of a development officer making a big difference with the development of inter county players?
Enquiring wrote: » Actual employees of Dublin gaa any good to you?
Dublin have paid officers overseeing everything. Strategic development officers, hurling development officers, club development officers etc.
Enquiring wrote: » As before, I'm just going to copy and paste my earlier post as you're just going to repeat the same lies anyway: Splitting Dublin is the first step. We can't let a team compete under professional structures while everyone else is competing within amateur structures. Full stop. Then of course we need other changes. Like the mad idea that instead of over funding the county with by far the largest population, you fund other counties that really need it. You put structures in place in all counties, give them funding for coaching and so on. Other ideas like pooling sponsorship etc can be discussed but splitting Dublin is the first major hurdle in the process.
kilns wrote: » Yes and as I said you picked out a tiny percentage who benefitted and that is not the issue, it is always going to happen due to the player pool size and attracting better players. Yeah they get the GDO to run the bar too. If you knew anything of Dublin clubs and saw them on a regular basis you would know the work that GDOs do. But yes pick out the odd exception, where are you from and I will pick out a rare exception of player development for you
The Lost Sheep wrote: » Countless tournaments havent been ruined and certainly not by Dublin. Easy to argue Munster has been ruined by Kerry, Kilkenny have ruined the Leinster hurling championship. I know what you will say to that but its false. Theyve always had population much bigger than anyone elses. Theyve always had majority of games in Dublin, when they not winning as much as well. The provinces were not new teams. There has been provincial games for decades and decades they just started playing more. They were not teams made from scratch with no history, fans not having an allegiance towards. They should and you havent answered how to replace the many millions that would be lost if you moved these games. Yes there will. Munster championship is still very meaningful even with Kerry having 7 times as many championship wins as Tipp, Clare, Limerick and Waterford combined. If tipp had that kind of attitude they wouldnt have won a Munster title this year or in 2016.
RoyalCelt wrote: » The idea is to get them playing, and also playing to a high a standard as possible. Unfortunately dublin have dominated everyone without cracking a lot of the city as you say. Just imagine when more funds come in and they go crack it. Sadly other towns/cities in Ireland don't get the money to crack these low participation areas. Especially Belfast. They do in certain cases get funding but it pales in comparison to the pale.
gaffer91 wrote: » Did you even read what I wrote? Not splitting Dublin will result in the death of the game at inter-county level, because of the decades of unfair advantages that Dublin have enjoyed means their current dominance is now forever. Splitting Dublin heads off this problem. So splitting Dublin helps Longford by ensuring they actually have a competition to compete it. To make it easier for you- not splitting Dublin = death of the game at inter-county level. Splitting Dublin = a chance at saving it. So splitting Dublin helps every player and every GAA member in every county.
Bambi wrote: » Quotes from Dublin officials confirming that coaching has moved on from the 90s and 00s arent good enough. If theres actually any county out there coaching kids like they did 20-30 years then they're cracked. Lets start with your quote: Do you have proof that every position in Dublin GAA is a paid position? Of course, you don't but you tried wesel the sentence by using the word "overseeing", every county is overseen by professionals at some level, even though some might not look like it. So lets cut you some slack. Present some evidence: the total figure of all people involved in Dublin GAA and the percentage of those people who are paid professional. Then present the same for all other Division 1 counties in football as comparison. No rush.
Enquiring wrote: » What are you on about with odd exception? The whole goal of the funding was to improve the standard of Gaelic games in Dublin across the board and the multi million euro grant has worked, in a big way. Underage hurling and football, club hurling and football, women's football and senior hurling and football have all seen unprecedented improvements. There is no odd exception, the exception would be what area hasn't improved.
kilns wrote: » Again you have not answered the question, are you going to? I will put it in big writing for you. HOW WILL SPLITTING DUBLIN BENEFIT WEAKER COUNTIES AND MAKE THEM MORE COMPETITIVE? The non answer you give above does nothing for weaker counties bridge the gap to the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. So I look forward to your answer
gaffer91 wrote: » Winning fairly (e.g Kilkenny) is fine. Winning unfairly is a problem. Dublin win in large part because of the platform of unfair advantages (financial doping, population advantage, playing at home) so their victories are unfair. It's not just the fact they are winning, it's the fact they are doing it from an unfairly advantaged position. Population and playing at home were always unfair advantages, even if they didn't always take maximum value from them. Again, I referred to the rugby as an example of how teams can build large support bases in a short period of time. This could happen for the Dublin subdivisional sides. Moving finals from Croke Park will make money in the long run as if we don't start to eradicate Dublin's unfair advantages, ideally by splitting but happy to take whatever interim step is available, the game will die and there will be no inter-county money for anyone. And once again, splitting Dublin helps every county by saving the game at inter-county level. It's too dangerous to the future of the game to not split Dublin.
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