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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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The Lost Sheep

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I don't know how much of an advantage Croke park is really as most of the top teams playing there often anyway, but for the perception of fairness that the Dubs should play at least half their games away from Croke park including AI semi finals and finals. Cork and Thurles could host these big games, sure there will be less in attendance but as far as I know the GAA haven't any significant outstanding debt on Croke park wheras Cork does and Thurles could use the extra shillings for an upgrade also.

Whatever about semi finals. Finals shouldnt be moved from the national stadium barring a replay with say kerry v Mayo in Limerick etc
Its in the hands of all the Leinster counties to get Dubs out of Croke Park more. But the games they should be out of Croke Park shouldnt be the final games of the competition but earlier on in the summer.

dunnerc

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Whatever about semi finals. Finals shouldnt be moved from the national stadium barring a replay with say kerry v Mayo in Limerick etc
Its in the hands of all the Leinster counties to get Dubs out of Croke Park more. But the games they should be out of Croke Park shouldnt be the final games of the competition but earlier on in the summer.

Yep ive a pain in my face saying the same thing about its in the hands of Leinster Counties to get Dublin out of Croke Park

Stacksofwacks

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Whatever about semi finals. Finals shouldnt be moved from the national stadium barring a replay with say kerry v Mayo in Limerick etc
Its in the hands of all the Leinster counties to get Dubs out of Croke Park more. But the games they should be out of Croke Park shouldnt be the final games of the competition but earlier on in the summer.

Why would a Leinster semi final in Croker be an advantage to Dublin but an AI final wouldn't? There's no reason you couldn't play an AI final in Cork or Thurles. And it wouldn't be every AI final Dublin are in but rotate it between venues.

The Lost Sheep

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Why would a Leinster semi final in Croker be an advantage to Dublin but an AI final wouldn't? There's no reason you couldn't play an AI final in Cork or Thurles. And it wouldn't be every AI final Dublin are in but rotate it between venues.

Where do you replace all that income from if finals are regularly out of Dublin?
Replays tend to attract slightly smaller crowds in some cases but its a few million quid considering its 30000 tickets at 80 quid a go and then you have issues with corporate who pay more again and pay for croke park on basis of these finals being played there.
You dont see FA cup rotating out of wembley?? Its the prestige cup final of the year. Dont move them from your main ground, your best stadium, your biggest stadium

beggars_bush

dunnerc wrote: »

Yep ive a pain in my face saying the same thing about its in the hands of Leinster Counties to get Dublin out of Croke Park

Clubs and counties won't vote to reduce the funding they get from all those Dubs attending home games
Meanwhile, Dublin are actually treated as a province for funding from central council

dunnerc

beggars_bush wrote: »

Clubs and counties won't vote to reduce the funding they get from all those Dubs attending home games
Meanwhile, Dublin are actually treated as a province for funding from central council

So they can but they wont , not Dublins problem

Mehapoy

ShyMets wrote: »

So how does splitting Dublin get Limerick or Antrim closer to winning a provincial title

Most of Limerick are quite happy to be winning the provincial title in hurling! Don't worry about us!

[Deleted User]

Its nice to see more people come around to the idea of splitting Dublin from inside the camp.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYVbpGkg/20201210-011746.jpg

Strumms

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Why would a Leinster semi final in Croker be an advantage to Dublin but an AI final wouldn't? There's no reason you couldn't play an AI final in Cork or Thurles. And it wouldn't be every AI final Dublin are in but rotate it between venues.

The venues in Cork and Thurles are not big enough...

So should the GAA pump millions into upgrading a venue in order just to kick Dublin out of Dublin for a couple of games ?

Capacity of Grounds...

Croke Park : 76,534

Parc Ui Chaoimh : 45,000

Semple Stadium : 45,690

Croke Park has about 40% extra capacity than those grounds. And for championship games, full, sold out or close.

Ultimately if you play in Parc Ui Chaoimh, you are depriving a lot of both Dublin supporters and opposition supporters of the ability to go.

So then, do you pour millions into bringing both the above stadia to a capacity of say 60,000 ?

About a 30 million investment give or take to facilitate possibly one game a year or two ?

I’d say plenty of counties would have an issue with the GAA doing that....

Clubs and counties looking for floodlights, all weather pitches and upgrades to dressing rooms and other facilities but throwing 30 or so million or 60 if both stadia, to facilitate people’s desire to nobble the Dubs ? Doesn’t make sense...

y0ssar1an22

how much of the dub population are here because of work? using population to distribute anything is useless without 1st asking why is everyone there.

how much of the registered gaa pop are from dublin?

beggars_bush

dunnerc wrote: »

So they can but they wont , not Dublins problem

Every other county in leinster will have funding affected
Dublin won't

ArielAtom

beggars_bush wrote: »

Every other county in leinster will have funding affected
Dublin won't

Wow. Could you post a link where you have found out this nugget of information. I have never seen it.

EICVD

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Its nice to see more people come around to the idea of splitting Dublin from inside the camp.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYVbpGkg/20201210-011746.jpg

Poor attempt, must try harder 2/10

ooter

There have been 14 FA cup finals at the new Wembley this century and 11 of them have involved a London club or clubs, probably even more of the semi finals at Wembley involved London clubs, should they all have been moved to another city/venue?

Cilldara_2000

Strumms wrote: »

The venues in Cork and Thurles are not big enough...

So should the GAA pump millions into upgrading a venue in order just to kick Dublin out of Dublin for a couple of games ?

Capacity of Grounds...

Croke Park : 76,534

Parc Ui Chaoimh : 45,000

Semple Stadium : 45,690

Croke Park has about 40% extra capacity than those grounds. And for championship games, full, sold out or close.

Ultimately if you play in Parc Ui Chaoimh, you are depriving a lot of both Dublin supporters and opposition supporters of the ability to go.

So then, do you pour millions into bringing both the above stadia to a capacity of say 60,000 ?

About a 30 million investment give or take to facilitate possibly one game a year or two ?

I’d say plenty of counties would have an issue with the GAA doing that....

Clubs and counties looking for floodlights, all weather pitches and upgrades to dressing rooms and other facilities but throwing 30 or so million or 60 if both stadia, to facilitate people’s desire to nobble the Dubs ? Doesn’t make sense...

Croke Park has a capacity of 82300. There's no guaranteed sell out anymore but usually both finals sell out and maybe one or two other matches, if Dublin happen to be drawn against Mayo other than in the final.

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

What are these professional structures Dublin enjoy over it's competitors like Kerry and Tyrone?

There is this myth that funding directly benefits the elite teams, the funding provided is essential and goes to the average child in the county whom 99% will never see a county team but people will still bang on about funding, yes other counties deserve funding too but can they be trusted to use it and have the right structure in place

As for pooling sponsorship, again not a Dublin problem. The biggest objection to that would come from the South West

The myth is that the money was just for primary school children. That myth has been busted multiple times over. Completely obliterated. Why are you repeating something that has been shown to be false?

Dublin have paid officers overseeing everything. Strategic development officers, hurling development officers, club development officers etc. Then they have the huge number of paid coaches that they've had for 2 decades now. These are professional structures that no one else has.

This is before we get to the rest of the money by the way. Do you want to pretend to not know about the long list of sponsors Dublin have?

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

You are wasting your time trying to debate. Tunnel vision on the majority of the posts here from those who have no interest in developing structures. It’s just about stopping Dublin.

You peddled the myth that the money was just for primary school kids as well until I pointed out the facts to you. Why didnt you inform kilns of them?

Enquiring

dunnerc wrote: »

Yep ive a pain in my face saying the same thing about its in the hands of Leinster Counties to get Dublin out of Croke Park

This is another insulting message from some Dubs. First of all, Dublin may be funded like a province but they are still in an already existing one. They are on the Leinster council and have obviously never voted to move Dublin away from croke park.

Next, it's all well and good having a go at other county boards for voting to have Dublin games in croke park, they don't have millions of euro of taxpayer and sponsorship money backing them. Most county boards struggle with trying to balance the books every year. Dublin fans insulting them for decisions they have to make knowing the money Dublin get every year is really bad form.

ArmaniJeanss

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You dont see FA cup rotating out of wembley?? Its the prestige cup final of the year. Dont move them from your main ground, your best stadium, your biggest stadium

On the other hand the Super Bowl or the Champions League Final do rotate.
Why ever have the CL final in Kiev (61K) or Lisbon (61K) when Wembley (87K) or the Nou Camp (90K) are always available? And why did the NFL play the Super Bowl anywhere other the Pasadena Rosebowl with its 103K capacity, at the time dwarfing all other Super Bowl venues by around 25K people.

I accept that the issue with us is that Croke Pk is just so much bigger and better than the other grounds, but the idea that a final has to be always played in the biggest available stadium is something other sports don't feel the need to do.

Enquiring

ooter wrote: »

There have been 14 FA cup finals at the new Wembley this century and 11 of them have involved a London club or clubs, probably even more of the semi finals at Wembley involved London clubs, should they all have been moved to another city/venue?

Have the English FA provided a London team with a huge level of resources far beyond every other team in the country and then that team moved to Wembley for them to use it as their permanent home ground?

The Lost Sheep

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

On the other hand the Super Bowl or the Champions League Final do rotate.
Why ever have the CL final in Kiev (61K) or Lisbon (61K) when Wembley (87K) or the Nou Camp (90K) are always available? And why did the NFL play the Super Bowl anywhere other the Pasadena Rosebowl with its 103K capacity, at the time dwarfing all other Super Bowl venues by around 25K people.

I accept that the issue with us is that Croke Pk is just so much bigger and better than the other grounds, but the idea that a final has to be always played in the biggest available stadium is something other sports don't feel the need to do.

Whatever about Super Bowl but Champions League is completely different is it not.
FA Cup, FAI Cup finals always played in national stadium/home of football in the country.

[Deleted User]

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think it was decided 37 years ago at Congress that semis would be played in CP.
If you want it changed put a motion down and debate it.

Glad you are no longer trying to even argue that isn't an unfair advantage that benefits Dublin

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Countless tournaments havent been ruined because 1 team dominates for a period. Dublins dominance will not last indefinitely. They will drop off. Semi finals and Finals should be played in the national stadium bar some replays where a more suitable venue is available.
The point about rugby is completely irrelevant and nothing to do with this. The rugby teams always existed and there was identity with the provinces. The games simply were not that interesting to vast majority of people. As the provinces played more and were successful and best players moved to play with them that interest built. The rugby provinces had/have a history that could be built on. A split in Dublin would have none of this.

Dublin do need to play more championship games outside of Croke Park but its earlier in the competition that they shouldnt be playing there not latter stage of the all ireland.

There will always be an inter county competition. Mayo, Galway and Roscommon have continuously beat Leitrim and Leitrim field year in year out and dont complain about the vast resources these counties have over them. A split Dublin would have zero impact on how Leitrim do in the championship and the league.

Countless tournaments have been ruined- Leinster, the All-Ireland. Dublin's dominance will last indefinitely. Five years ago you'd have said five in a row was impossible. All the necessary conditions are there for them to keep winning forever- funding, population, home pitch advantage etc.

The point about rugby is that it is easy to generate support for new teams.

All-Ireland finals and semi-finals shouldn't be in Croke Park if Dublin are playing as it's their home pitch and they get an unfair advantage for it.

There won't be a meaningful inter-county competition in 10 years if Dublin aren't split.

ShyMets wrote: »

So how does splitting Dublin get Limerick or Antrim closer to winning a provincial title

If we don't split Dublin the All-Ireland competition is ruined and it will die. It is currently in the process of dying. No-one will be watching, attending or caring in 10 years as Dublin will keep winning indefinitely built on a platform of unfair advantages. If we split Dublin into four we head off this problem.

So splitting Dublin helps Limerick and Antrim by ensuring they still have a competition to play in and ensuring the survival of gaelic games at inter-county level. Splitting Dublin also helps Dublin, for the same reasons.

ooter wrote: »

There have been 14 FA cup finals at the new Wembley this century and 11 of them have involved a London club or clubs, probably even more of the semi finals at Wembley involved London clubs, should they all have been moved to another city/venue?

Wembley isn't any London team's home ground. They only play there for the FA cup. Croke Park is Dublin's home ground.

ooter

Enquiring wrote: »

Have the English FA provided a London team with a huge level of resources far beyond every other team in the country and then that team moved to Wembley for them to use it as their permanent home ground?

No, but surely it gives the London club an advantage?

Enquiring

ooter wrote: »

No, but surely it gives the London club an advantage?

Which London team uses Wembley as their permanent home ground?

And why doesnt the English FA fund one club by millions more than any other club?

The_Kew_Tour

Dont have problem with Dublin playing in Croker etc.

But Hill 16 should be made 50/50 for All Ireland day.. Hill 16 was big advantage to Dubs in that regard

ooter

Croke park is not Dublin's permanent home.
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1112567/

The_Kew_Tour

ooter wrote: »

Croke park is not Dublin's permanent home.
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1112567/

:pac::pac:

Dr. Bre

Croke park is a neutral venue which happens to be in Dublin . Parnell park is Dublin home ground

ooter

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Dont have problem with Dublin playing in Croker etc.

But Hill 16 should be made 50/50 for All Ireland day.. Hill 16 was big advantage to Dubs in that regard

I've no idea if it's an equal split but both counties get plenty of hill tickets for the all Ireland final, a lot of non Dublin supporters tend to swap them for seats when it's a final with Dublin involved.
I have a season ticket in the Cusack and every final since 2011 I've swapped for a hill ticket.

Dick Turnip

Croke Park is the Dublin football team's de facto home ground. Once they started playing their league games there, I think the question was answered. How can you even debate that still?

However, AI finals 100% should always be in Croke Park regardless of who is playing. Just not up for debate. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Semis should be there too.