nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

Threadbanned Users:
3xh
Dr.Frost
kingbhome
nannerbenahs
skooterblue2
Fodla
Caraibh
drunkmonkey
lawrencesummers
Howard Beale

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

nocoverart

larchielads wrote: »

Was watchin the news earlier and yer man was sayin that they dont konw if the Pfizer vaccine offers protection against infection or disease. And is it the same with the other vaccines??Surely to get disease u gotta be infected first? Am i missin somethin can someone explain it to me like im 10 yrs old.

I think they’re unsure about transmission after you have the Vaccine, not enough data yet to know if you could pass it on or not but the person who had the Vaccine would be protected and they’re just airing on the side of caution IMO.

Gael23

namloc1980 wrote: »

If there's wide take up of vaccine, people will lose the plot if they still have to wear masks and have to live under restrictions long term.

I’d think twice about getting the vaccine if I thought that would be the case

Peregrinus

larchielads wrote: »

Was watchin the news earlier and yer man was sayin that they dont konw if the Pfizer vaccine offers protection against infection or disease. And is it the same with the other vaccines??Surely to get disease u gotta be infected first? Am i missin somethin can someone explain it to me like im 10 yrs old.

Imagine a vaccine which is very effective at combatting the virus in your lungs, but not so good at combatting it in your nasal passage, sinuses and throat.

If you've had that vaccine and you then pick up the virus, you won't get ill - as in, you won't have the respiratory symptoms associated with the virus marching around delighted with yourself in your lungs.

But you may still be contagious, becaue the virus in your nose and throat means that you are shedding the virus with every exhalation. And if you meet an unvaccinated person you may infect them, and they may get very ill or die.

Which means the gradual rollout of such a vaccine could in fact make matters worse. We'll have a bunch of people who have been vaccinated, and are not motivated to practice hygiene, social distancing and other precautions, infecting a bunch of unvaccinated people who are vulnerable.

Which in turn means, if that's how the vaccine operates, it's important to know that, because it affects how you roll out the vaccine. You don't even start offering it until you have manufuctured all you need, and put the infrastucture in place, to blitz the entire population in a very short time. Whereas if you have a vaccine that protects against infection, you can roll it out in phases, starting with those most vulnerable to the disease.

To know whether a vaccine operates that way, you have to conduct the right clinical tests. You can find out whether the virus is protecting against disease by asking your trial participants to report if they have symptoms, and test those who report. If they report few or no symptom, the virus largely or entirely protects against disease. But to know whether the virus protects against infection, you have to constantly test your trial participants - like, swabbing their nasal passages and throat twice weekly for the entire period of the trial. That's a much bigger deal, costs a lot more, is much more burdensome on trial participants, etc, etc.

And here's the thing; the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine has receved emergency authorisation in the UK, but most other countries are yet to license it because they want to make a fuller assessment based on more data. A question that occurs to me - and I don't know the answer to this - is whether one of the as-yet-unanswered questions about this particular vaccine is whether it protects against infection, or just against disease? It may be that this is one of the questions other countries want answered about a vaccine before they will approve it, because the answer to that question will affect how they administer the vaccine.

theguzman

Will there be a test for vaccination effectiveness? Ok the pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, that leaves 5% of the population who takes it without any protection. Lets assume the entire population of the island of Ireland are entirely vaccinated at around 6.9m or 7m (counting illegal immigrants) it would leave around 350k people with no immunity. It would be good to be able to get a Covid antibody test to say your vaccine is working and you now have protection.

CIARAN_BOYLE

It is my understanding that the Pfizer BioNtech vaccine and the Moderna vaccine aren't even testing in their trials whether the vaccine protects against the infection.

Oxford/Astra Zenaca are testing and have seen positive signs but no results.

I believe that it's an unasked question as well as an unanswered one.

This is one the reasons that the vaccine won't be a 'silver bullet' for at least 3-9 months into the rollout.

mandrake04

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It is my understanding that the Pfizer BioNtech vaccine and the Moderna vaccine aren't even testing in their trials whether the vaccine protects against the infection.

Oxford/Astra Zenaca are testing and have seen positive signs but no results.

I believe that it's an unasked question as well as an unanswered one.

This is one the reasons that the vaccine won't be a 'silver bullet' for at least 3-9 months into the rollout.

I asked the same Question last week as I had heard on Radio that AZ1222 blocks transmission and lessons disease where the mRNA only lesson the disease... never got a satisfactory answer.

Peregrinus

mandrake04 wrote: »

I asked the same Question last week as I had heard on Radio that AZ1222 blocks transmission and lessons disease where the mRNA only lesson the disease... never got a satisfactory answer.

I think that may be at leaast in part because the answers are not necessarily known, or known reliably, for all the various vaccines that are in development. Different manufacturers may choose to conduct different clinical trials, yielding different information.

[Deleted User]

mandrake04 wrote: »

I asked the same Question last week as I had heard on Radio that AZ1222 blocks transmission and lessons disease where the mRNA only lesson the disease... never got a satisfactory answer.

Pfizeer/ Moderna may not have powered their initial study to detect the impact on transmission as prevention of serious disease would have been the primary goal. Having a study sufficiently powered to do both may have taken a lot longer.

brisan

theguzman wrote: »

Will there be a test for vaccination effectiveness? Ok the pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, that leaves 5% of the population who takes it without any protection. Lets assume the entire population of the island of Ireland are entirely vaccinated at around 6.9m or 7m (counting illegal immigrants) it would leave around 350k people with no immunity. It would be good to be able to get a Covid antibody test to say your vaccine is working and you now have protection.

Where are you getting that figure from
Approx. 5m people is the official population of Ireland

is_that_so

theguzman wrote: »

Will there be a test for vaccination effectiveness? Ok the pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, that leaves 5% of the population who takes it without any protection. Lets assume the entire population of the island of Ireland are entirely vaccinated at around 6.9m or 7m (counting illegal immigrants) it would leave around 350k people with no immunity. It would be good to be able to get a Covid antibody test to say your vaccine is working and you now have protection.

For COVID it is suggested that 70% coverage will be sufficient for herd immunity, perhaps even lower. Something like measles needs about 95%. People may continue to get COVID but it'll be milder and more like the effects of the flu'.

Peregrinus

theguzman wrote: »

Will there be a test for vaccination effectiveness? Ok the pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, that leaves 5% of the population who takes it without any protection. Lets assume the entire population of the island of Ireland are entirely vaccinated at around 6.9m or 7m (counting illegal immigrants) it would leave around 350k people with no immunity. It would be good to be able to get a Covid antibody test to say your vaccine is working and you now have protection.

"95% effective" does not mean that 95% of the vaccinated population will be completely immune and the others will have no immunity at all. It means that different people will have differing levels of immunity, with the average overall being 95% immunity. It's unlikely that there will be a test to tell an individual how much immunity he or she has. That could vary over time - e.g. you might be effectively immune most of the time, but vulnerable to infection if you happen to be exposed at a time when your immune system is unusually depleted by some unrelated factor.

CIARAN_BOYLE

brisan wrote: »

Where are you getting that figure from
Approx. 5m people is the official population of Ireland

He said the island of ireland so add in the north. Its around 7 million.

Hmmzis

mandrake04 wrote: »

I asked the same Question last week as I had heard on Radio that AZ1222 blocks transmission and lessons disease where the mRNA only lesson the disease... never got a satisfactory answer.

Since all three we have phase 3 data for work in similar ways - from within the cells, there is no plausible way for them to have any vastly different efficacy on blocking transmission. If ChAdOx is doing that then Pfizer/BNT and Moderna are blocking transmission as well. Given the increased primary efficacy of the mRNA vaccines I'd warrant a guess that they are also better at blocking transmission.

There could still be an argument if you'd be looking at ChAdOx1 or mRNA vs a protein type (i.e. Novavax), since protein vaccines are crap at inducing CD8+ cell responses then one could argue that those responses are very important (and they are - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-03041-6) leading to a plausible mechanism for having protection from disease but not blocking transmission, but even then it's a bit far fetched in my opinion, immune responses are simply not that boolean.

Gael23

My company have said there won’t be a requirement to have the vaccine in order to return to the office. Nit sure how I feel about that

Micky 32

The Tainaiste Leo Varadkar has said :

“Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said he believes the country will see the end of the Covid-19 pandemic in 2021.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Varadkar said yesterday was a day of hope as people on the island of Ireland and in the UK began to receive a coronavirus vaccine.

He said the combination of vaccines, mass testing and increased knowledge of Covid-19 will work to bring an end to the virus next year.“

RTE actually reporting this!

ACitizenErased

As normal - people in the UK who experience severe allergic reactions have been told not take the Pfizer vaccine.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-uk-regulators-warn-people-with-history-of-significant-allergic-reactions-not-to-have-pfizer-biontech-jab-12155916

funnydoggy

Micky 32 wrote: »

The Tainaiste Leo Varadkar has said :

“Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said he believes the country will see the end of the Covid-19 pandemic in 2021.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Varadkar said yesterday was a day of hope as people on the island of Ireland and in the UK began to receive a coronavirus vaccine.

He said the combination of vaccines, mass testing and increased knowledge of Covid-19 will work to bring an end to the virus next year.“

RTE actually reporting this!

They are, but the last paragraph and video talk about more possible restrictions again.. We can't win :pac:

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As normal - people in the UK who experience severe allergic reactions have been told not take the Pfizer vaccine.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-uk-regulators-warn-people-with-history-of-significant-allergic-reactions-not-to-have-pfizer-biontech-jab-12155916

Watch the mountain get made out of this by some.

Personally I've never been given a vaccine without being asked to provide any allergies in advance. Its been on every form I've ever signed for the flu vaccine

stephenjmcd

Gael23 wrote: »

My company have said there won’t be a requirement to have the vaccine in order to return to the office. Nit sure how I feel about that

Why would there be a requirement? Its likely its not allowed to force staff to get vaccinated

stephenjmcd

MHRA expecting to get the mature data from Moderna within the next week or two.

Would tie in with EMA giving mid January for the decision there.

Oxford - AstraZeneca are providing their data packages to MHRA now. Would presume likewise with EMA

odyssey06

Gael23 wrote: »

My company have said there won’t be a requirement to have the vaccine in order to return to the office. Nit sure how I feel about that

My concern would be if they start mandating return to the office before the general rollout to working age population.

iamwhoiam

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Watch the mountain get made out of this by some.

Personally I've never been given a vaccine without being asked to provide any allergies in advance. Its been on every form I've ever signed for the flu vaccine

Absolutely ,I have a sever allergy and it has never stopped me getting the flu vaccine .

stephenjmcd

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely ,I have a sever allergy and it has never stopped me getting the flu vaccine .

Just double checked the one from this year that I got prior to the appointment.

2 very clear yes or no questions, Do you have any allergies & have you ever had an allergic reaction to any previous vaccination.

ACitizenErased

RTE have hopped on the allergy bandwagon now. FFS

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

RTE have hopped on the allergy bandwagon now. FFS

Course they have. No surprise, expect a few more to do similar.

Same as every other vaccine reactions and side effects are always listed.

I find it odd how the NHS are only asking from today about history of allergies, thats usually standard. The 2 people involved were carrying adrenaline auto injectors, why the fcuk wouldn't the NHS have covered that off in advance

mandrake04

Hmmzis wrote: »

Since all three we have phase 3 data for work in similar ways - from within the cells, there is no plausible way for them to have any vastly different efficacy on blocking transmission. If ChAdOx is doing that then Pfizer/BNT and Moderna are blocking transmission as well. Given the increased primary efficacy of the mRNA vaccines I'd warrant a guess that they are also better at blocking transmission.

There could still be an argument if you'd be looking at ChAdOx1 or mRNA vs a protein type (i.e. Novavax), since protein vaccines are crap at inducing CD8+ cell responses then one could argue that those responses are very important (and they are - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-03041-6) leading to a plausible mechanism for having protection from disease but not blocking transmission, but even then it's a bit far fetched in my opinion, immune responses are simply not that boolean.

Thank you, I appreciate your thoughts on this.

funnydoggy

Colleagues panicking already.

I'm reminding them that it's the same for every vaccine.

Micky 32

ACitizenErased wrote: »

RTE have hopped on the allergy bandwagon now. FFS

Picture this. An RTE boss comes in this morning. “Who the f**** put that story up about Varadkar saying the pandemic will end in 2021?”

“ Get me something quick, ah alergies that should dampen peoples hope, quick run the story”

snotboogie

theguzman wrote: »

Will there be a test for vaccination effectiveness? Ok the pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, that leaves 5% of the population who takes it without any protection. Lets assume the entire population of the island of Ireland are entirely vaccinated at around 6.9m or 7m (counting illegal immigrants) it would leave around 350k people with no immunity. It would be good to be able to get a Covid antibody test to say your vaccine is working and you now have protection.

No it doesn't. Those in the 5% only had mild symptoms, so even if you catch the disease the vaccine is providing some protection from severe illness.

Irish Stones

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As normal - people in the UK who experience severe allergic reactions have been told not take the Pfizer vaccine.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-uk-regulators-warn-people-with-history-of-significant-allergic-reactions-not-to-have-pfizer-biontech-jab-12155916

Is it right to say that during the trials with the volunteers, no allergic reactions were observed?
If so, why are they showing up now when the vaccine is going to be approved?
And, will these reactions put the EU approval on hold?