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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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Dots1982

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Not that there ever really was in all honesty.

Honesty is something you seem to be troubled with. You’ve been shown the views of the GAA’s longest serving pundit along with Spillane saying Dublin needs to be split up in multiple pieces yet you are in denial about it and sticking foolishly to your guns.

I’m not in favour of just splitting Dublin but I’m not in favour of posters being dishonest as well.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Thats not actually true though. Ewan Mckenna has spoken about it often. It is colm orourkes goto response to questions about dublin and the future of the gaa. Plenty more too.
Some guys seem to want to push this world where nobody is bothered about it bar a few guys who just want their own county to win. Their mates back them up and it becomes a bit of an echo chamber, as can be seen on this thread. In reality, this is the biggest issue facing the gaa moving forward. Anyone who is any ways fair minded and forward thinking will recognise why that is.

I think you lost the crowd at Ewan McKenna

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Thats not actually true though. Ewan Mckenna has spoken about it often. It is colm orourkes goto response to questions about dublin and the future of the gaa. Plenty more too.
Some guys seem to want to push this world where nobody is bothered about it bar a few guys who just want their own county to win. Their mates back them up and it becomes a bit of an echo chamber, as can be seen on this thread. In reality, this is the biggest issue facing the gaa moving forward. Anyone who is any ways fair minded and forward thinking will recognise why that is.

Well, there are a number of "guys who just want their own county to win" on here, as they only look at Dublin, they don't look more broadly at what is required to create an equal competition.

This discussion on here is pointless so long as it is only populated by those wanting to knock Dublin off their pedestal so their county can replace them. As I keep saying, you have to look at others (Kerry in particular) who have been overly dominant, and you have to look at the measures required to get the Leitrims and Wicklows to be competitive. That means more splits and many amalgamations.

rebel girl 15

This is a car crash of a thread at the moment - we are locking it to clean it up as at this moment in time it is going around in circles

rebel girl 15

Can we please behave, or else this thread will be closed again and those offenders banned - civil discussion and debate thanks!

Cavan_King

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, there are a number of "guys who just want their own county to win" on here, as they only look at Dublin, they don't look more broadly at what is required to create an equal competition.

This discussion on here is pointless so long as it is only populated by those wanting to knock Dublin off their pedestal so their county can replace them. As I keep saying, you have to look at others (Kerry in particular) who have been overly dominant, and you have to look at the measures required to get the Leitrims and Wicklows to be competitive. That means more splits and many amalgamations.

Kerry never had the advantages Dublin do - largest population, best commercial deals, playing their home games in Croke Park, professional county board.

Spanish Eyes

The biggest issue is that the city clickers are not boggers.

But talent wins out all the time, I suppose Dublin has a bigger pool though.

The Lost Sheep

Cavan_King wrote: »

Kerry never had the advantages Dublin do - largest population, best commercial deals, playing their home games in Croke Park, professional county board.

Kerry have had some of the best commercial deals going in the country and its far from an issue with them.
Kerrys county board has got the county some of the best commercial deals in the country. Kerry Group are not exactly spending pennies.
Professional county board means what exactly?

Richard Hillman

Was just listening to the issue on Off the Ball.

I might actually follow a South Dublin team if they split up. I always seen the Dublin GAA team as a northside thing. So I'm not really that interested. Probably like some folk may see Leinster rugby as a Southside thing.

Cavan_King

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Kerry have had some of the best commercial deals going in the country and its far from an issue with them.
Kerrys county board has got the county some of the best commercial deals in the country. Kerry Group are not exactly spending pennies.
Professional county board means what exactly?

Dublin have a professional CEO in John Costello overseeing how their county board is run. Other counties don’t have that.

The Lost Sheep

Cavan_King wrote: »

Dublin have a professional CEO in John Costello overseeing how their county board is run. Other counties don’t have that.

Having a full time employee in charge doesnt mean the whole company/group is professional compared to others.

ArielAtom

It’s great to see the concern for the Leinster Championship has morphed into this thread. It will show the real concern😂

Cavan_King

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Having a full time employee in charge doesnt mean the whole company/group is professional compared to others.

Let’s compare it to say my own county. Cavan chairman runs a multi million pound electrical business with a high number of employees so he is trying to juggle that and run the county board.

That said, I’d actually prefer that to some counties where you may have a county board chairman with little business acumen.

Either way, Dublin have a professional CEO overseeing their staffing, promotional activity, games development etc. I’d see that as a key factor other counties need.

Cavan_King

ArielAtom wrote: »

It’s great to see the concern for the Leinster Championship has morphed into this thread. It will show the real concernðŸ˜‚

What a surprise it “morphed into this thread” when the Leinster thread was closed and people were told to post here!?

You’d give Columbo a run for his money with those investigative skills of yours.

ArielAtom

Cavan_King wrote: »

What a surprise it “morphed into this thread” when the Leinster thread was closed and people were told to post here!?

You’d give Columbo a run for his money with those investigative skills of yours.

Your faux concern for the Leinster Championship is amusing. Your mask bask slipped.

Cavan_King

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your faux concern for the Leinster Championship is amusing. Your mask bask slipped.

My concern is that the entire championship will go the way of the Leinster championship. As I said; I remember the glory days of Leinster where Dublin Meath could fill out Croke Park two weekends in a row. I’d imagine there are also Dublin supporters who long for that again. There’s no fun or entertainment in a 21 point drubbing.

The Lost Sheep

Cavan_King wrote: »

Let’s compare it to say my own county. Cavan chairman runs a multi million pound electrical business with a high number of employees so he is trying to juggle that and run the county board.

That said, I’d actually prefer that to some counties where you may have a county board chairman with little business acumen.

Either way, Dublin have a professional CEO overseeing their staffing, promotional activity, games development etc. I’d see that as a key factor other counties need.

You keep using the word professional like its a dirty thing.
Dublin have a full time staff member running the county board. Thats a good thing. More counties should/could look to do it.
That Cavan have someone who has other concerns is their problem or may help them. Not all counties necessarily need a full time ceo.
There is still full time games development staff in each county with a manager overseeing the development officer who visit the clubs/schools.

tobefrank321

Cavan_King wrote: »

My concern is that the entire championship will go the way of the Leinster championship. As I said; I remember the glory days of Leinster where Dublin Meath could fill out Croke Park two weekends in a row. I’d imagine there are also Dublin supporters who long for that again. There’s no fun or entertainment in a 21 point drubbing.

Of course they don't long for that. A rivalry means losing an odd time otherwise its not a rivalry. Dublin supporters are quite happy to see 20 point drubbings handed out and have no interest in anything approaching a level playing field. Unfortunately the GAA have gone along with this and have not been impartial or independent administrators of the sport.

[Deleted User]

Colm O’Rourke is very good in this subject, not calling for Dublin to be defunded, but says it must be split.
Poor spatial strategy since independence means Dublin’s population is huge relative to the rest of the country. Inevitable they’re going to win a heap of All Irelands any time they get their act together.
The interest in the football championship is in decline very quickly. Something needs to be change sooner rather than later.
It’s a waste of time for Dublin too, of course they’re going to win all before them as it is. Nothing like a competitive local rivalry to increase interest.

[Deleted User]

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Colm O’Rourke is very good in this subject, not calling for Dublin to be defunded, but says it must be split.
Poor spatial strategy since independence means Dublin’s population is huge relative to the rest of the country. Inevitable they’re going to win a heap of All Irelands any time they get their act together.
The interest in the football championship is in decline very quickly. Something needs to be change sooner rather than later.
It’s a waste of time for Dublin too, of course they’re going to win all before them as it is. Nothing like a competitive local rivalry to increase interest.

Speaking as dub I wouldn't disagree with you but I think you need to give this more time to see how it pans out.

It's hard to judge if they are that good because alot of other teams that would usually challenge are weaker. I think they are the best of all time but other counties have definitely not been as strong in this period as they have in the past 20 years.

I think of we are still talking about this in 5 years then maybe yeah but it's more than likely this will not continue like is being forecast , any team can be beaten in any sport and it's not like the finals over the last 5 years have been massively one sided.

An issue that won't be resolved though is that smaller counties will never have a chance and that's just the way it is with population, the championship will only ever be contested by about 5 teams max imo.

Unfortunately I don't think people outside Dublin understand how GAA brings people from all over Dublin together as one, Northside/southside etc, other counties don't have these divisions to the same extent so don't really understand how damaging doing something like that would be to the county imo. It would do irreparable damage to the county and the support base that would not be able to be reversed.

awaywithyou

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Colm O’Rourke is very good in this subject, not calling for Dublin to be defunded, but says it must be split.
Poor spatial strategy since independence means Dublin’s population is huge relative to the rest of the country. Inevitable they’re going to win a heap of All Irelands any time they get their act together.
The interest in the football championship is in decline very quickly. Something needs to be change sooner rather than later.
It’s a waste of time for Dublin too, of course they’re going to win all before them as it is. Nothing like a competitive local rivalry to increase interest.

i think Dublins biggest issue is that say unlike Kerry in the 2000's who had Tyrone for company on the big days and lost to them each time.. only for tyrone kerry would have done 6-in-a-row... 04-09..

kilkenny hurlers had Cork and then Tipp to battle it out with for Liam McCarthy... Dublin dont have a team that will beat them now and again.. they had donegal upto 2014.. no one since.. im not gonna count Mayo as we know that while Mayo will be in the game and be competitive blah blah blah they will crack when the pressure comes on...

If Dublin had a team going toe to toe with them and beating them the odd time but they dont not their fault of course... there wouldnt b a word bout the success..... this is happening at club level too... corofin done 6-in-a-row in galway... how many in a row did Crossmaglen do??

[Deleted User]

The big difference between the Kilkenny and Dublin dominance is that Kilkenny didn’t have the numbers to keep it going indefinitely. Plus while they could blow teams away they’d get a test virtually every year.
With Dublin’s population it’s far more likely that it will continue indefinitely unless the GAA redraw the boundaries.
The whole of Connacht has around 1/2 of Dublin’s population. The current model hasn’t been fit for purpose for decades, but apathy about GAA in Dublin meant it didn’t have to be tackled. That time has run out, the championship has become a farce. Even if Mayo were to win the final, which is unlikely, it’d only paper over the cracks.
Here’s a good article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/as-dublin-stroll-to-another-final-when-will-the-gaa-say-the-system-is-broken-1.4428954?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR31E5nyvJEBovw0iBWdWg4qYQZTv-y4ycwbnjS_Ejva8cF8bQ8pQKphUaY

tobefrank321

Goose81 wrote: »

Speaking as dub I wouldn't disagree with you but I think you need to give this more time to see how it pans out.

It's hard to judge if they are that good because alot of other teams that would usually challenge are weaker. I think they are the best of all time but other counties have definitely not been as strong in this period as they have in the past 20 years.

I think of we are still talking about this in 5 years then maybe yeah but it's more than likely this will not continue like is being forecast , any team can be beaten in any sport and it's not like the finals over the last 5 years have been massively one sided.

An issue that won't be resolved though is that smaller counties will never have a chance and that's just the way it is with population, the championship will only ever be contested by about 5 teams max imo.

Unfortunately I don't think people outside Dublin understand how GAA brings people from all over Dublin together as one, Northside/southside etc, other counties don't have these divisions to the same extent so don't really understand how damaging doing something like that would be to the county imo. It would do irreparable damage to the county and the support base that would not be able to be reversed.

You were doing great until the final paragraph. Every county has divisions. Hurling v football, north vs south, east vs west, soccer vs gaelic etc. Bringing Dubs together in some luvvy dovvy exercise? You'd swear there'd be a civil war in Dublin if it wasn't for the GAA.

There's irreparable damage done to about 25 other counties in recent years. If it was just one or two counties who had fallen away and could no longer compete, fair enough. In Leinster alone practically all 11 other counties have gone backwards. Its obvious Dublin have hoovered up the funds that were originally intended to help develop football in those counties.

The Lost Sheep

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You were doing great until the final paragraph. Every county has divisions. Hurling v football, north vs south, east vs west, soccer vs gaelic etc. Bringing Dubs together in some luvvy dovvy exercise? You'd swear there'd be a civil war in Dublin if it wasn't for the GAA.

There's irreparable damage done to about 25 other counties in recent years. If it was just one or two counties who had fallen away and could no longer compete, fair enough. In Leinster alone practically all 11 other counties have gone backwards. Its obvious Dublin have hoovered up the funds that were originally intended to help those counties.

Yes its Dubllins fault that Wicklow havent done what they have never done in 100 previous years in gaelic and same for countless other counties. Majority of counties were never near winning provincial titles. This hasnt changed.

tobefrank321

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes its Dubllins fault that Wicklow havent done what they have never done in 100 previous years in gaelic and same for countless other counties. Majority of counties were never near winning provincial titles. This hasnt changed.

Westmeath, Laois, Offaly, Kildare and Meath won Leinster titles in the years before the GAA got involved and decided something had to be done to fix the fact Dublin without serious assistance couldn't even win a Leinster let alone an AI.

And I emphasise the word "fix".

[Deleted User]

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Westmeath, Laois, Offaly, Kildare and Meath won Leinster titles in the years before the GAA got involved and decided something had to be done to fix the fact Dublin without serious assistance couldn't even win a Leinster let alone an AI.

Well thats all sorted now

tobefrank321

dunnerc wrote: »

Well thats all sorted now

At least your honest about the money washing into Dubs coffers

[Deleted User]

tobefrank321 wrote: »

At least your honest about the money washing into Dubs coffers

Honesty is always the best policy

Cavan_King

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You keep using the word professional like its a dirty thing.
Dublin have a full time staff member running the county board. Thats a good thing. More counties should/could look to do it.
That Cavan have someone who has other concerns is their problem or may help them. Not all counties necessarily need a full time ceo.
There is still full time games development staff in each county with a manager overseeing the development officer who visit the clubs/schools.

I agree it’s a good thing Dublin have a full time staff member running the county board but why shouldn’t all counties have it? You say “”’more counties should/could look to do it”. Are you aware of how many counties are counting their coffers and struggling financially?

For example, Mickey Graham in Cavan wanted a panel of 40 plus players. It was cut back at the start of this year to just my over 30 because of the cost per player.

And that was at the start of this year. Post Covid, Cavan county board are now saying there are some sponsors that they won’t be able to approach re promised funding as it’s unfair given how their businesses have been hit this year.

The GAA are handing out over ten million in bailouts to different counties each year. Why not employ 32 professionals at a cost of 100k each, 3.2 million, to run the county boards? Chances are they’d save on the bailouts along the line.

Dublin supporters seem to be very defensive when debated about this but people are not always being critical. The Dublin structure has worked so my criticism is of the GAA - why aren’t they rolling it out in all counties?

Dyr

I do like how everyone is pretending that Kerrys set up is not utterly professional