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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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is_that_so

brisan wrote: »

How do you know that ?
Oxford is well advanced as are others

It's a guess based on what the likes of Pfizer have said - 1.3bn doses next year, Moderna at 500m-1bn but it will take time. Donnelly also claimed we'll have 1m vaccinated by March. Oxford just makes 3 then and they are still a while away as they need to sort out that dose anomaly. Others may be coming much later.

Necro

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The WHO is looking at infecting healthy people with Covid to speed up vaccine trials.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/07/who-looks-at-giving-covid-to-healthy-people-to-speed-up-vaccine-trials

Isn't that flying in the face of the Nuremberg Code.

Mod:

Enough of this conspiracy nonsense take it to the appropriate forum. Do not post in this thread again

drunkmonkey

Necro wrote: »

Mod:

Enough of this conspiracy nonsense take it to the appropriate forum. Do not post in this thread again

How is that conspiracy nonsense, it's a real event that's happening to discuss it and this is the vaccine testing discussion thread.

It's all part of the discussion nobody only you are saying it's nonsense or a conspiracy. It in no way warrants a ban from the thread.

Mod: Banned

braychelsea

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/taoiseach-micheal-martin-says-ireland-23127840

Martin saying Ireland ready to vaccinate before Christmas if EMA approval is brought forward

[Deleted User]

arctictree wrote: »

Sorry, dont have time to read the whole thread! How come the UK are rolling out vaccinations from today and we are not?

MHRA (UK) used an emergency use procedure to get approval through, it means they have to "sign off" on each batch to be used until a wider approval is granted.

EMA (EU) are going for a conditional marketing authorisation. Which requires more time than the above.

Any EU country could have done what the UK did using their own regulator but only a few EU countries would have their own regulator as well resourced as the MHRA.

seamus

There's no need to rush the approval, the EMA needs to ignore the pressure and do what they have to do. An extra 3 weeks won't kill us.

Deleted User wrote: »

MHRA (UK) used an emergency use procedure to get approval through, it means they have to "sign off" on each batch to be used until a wider approval is granted.

EMA (EU) are going for a conditional marketing authorisation. Which requires more time than the above.

Any EU country could have done what the UK did using their own regulator but only a few EU countries would have their own regulator as well resourced as the MHRA.

It's also worth noting that the MHRA didn't "move faster" or do a better job than the EMA. They have taken a subset of the trial data to make a risk assessment about whether the emergency authorisation was justified.
The EMA is considering the entire data set to make a more complete, and ultimately better evidence risk assessment in advance of approval.

The EMA was pretty scathing about the EHRA's jump forward because it has the potential to undermine confidence in the vaccine. They are literally the only body who has "rushed through" the approval of the vaccine without proper checks.

brisan

seamus wrote: »

There's no need to rush the approval, the EMA needs to ignore the pressure and do what they have to do. An extra 3 weeks won't kill us.

30,000 people dying weekly might disagree

seamus

brisan wrote: »

30,000 people dying weekly might disagree

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

brisan

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

May as well leave in till May so till the good weather comes in
Every day we delay means more people will die
That’s not saying I am in favour of rushing approval , it’s just a fact

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

Provided it is safe. If you don't do all the checks, you decided to, then you are undermining your own process any giving the public reason to not trust the regulator and medical profession.

In long run you could cost lives, by lower take up from a fear that "the vaccine was rushed through" or from not finding the "issue" with the vaccine by failing the due diligence you've set yourself.

The constraint in January will be on the manifacturing side not the administeration, meaning we will be able to catch up with the UK, before end of January.

timsey tiger

brisan wrote: »

May as well leave in till May so till the good weather comes in
Every day we delay means more people will die
That’s not saying I am in favour of rushing approval , it’s just a fact

From this attitude, I guess you'd have started shooting people up with hydroxy. back in March and not stopped...

is_that_so

braychelsea wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/taoiseach-micheal-martin-says-ireland-23127840

Martin saying Ireland ready to vaccinate before Christmas if EMA approval is brought forward

The plan will not be sent to government until the end of this week and being ready doesn't mean we'll start.

brisan

timsey tiger wrote: »

From this attitude, I guess you'd have started shooting people up with hydroxy. back in March and not stopped...

That’s quite a leap there
Just because I and another poster said you were wrong there is no need to get all antsy
It is a discussion forum after all

[Deleted User]

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

Whether its the correct decision or not, is it not pretty clear that releasing it earlier would absolutely save lives?

I still think they should follow the process, but this is a seperate point.

brisan

timsey tiger wrote: »

Provided it is safe. If you don't do all the checks, you decided to, then you are undermining your own process any giving the public reason to not trust the regulator and medical profession.

In long run you could cost lives, by lower take up from a fear that "the vaccine was rushed through" or from not finding the "issue" with the vaccine by failing the due diligence you've set yourself.

The constraint in January will be on the manifacturing side not the administeration, meaning we will be able to catch up with the UK, before end of January.

While there will be constraints on productions initially I would not be too optimistic that the administration of the vaccines will go as smoothly as it should

Jim_Hodge

It's hardly news as this has been mooted since last April or May. You seem to have overlooked that many over 80's were in fact immunised, as adult, when the BCG vaccine was rolled out.

funnydoggy

I can't wait until this subforum is old and dusty when COVID no longer bothers us. What a time to be alive

ShineOn7

funnydoggy wrote: »

I can't wait until this subforum is old and dusty when COVID no longer bothers us. What a time to be alive

I can't wait till it's padlocked and archived like the Finished & Cancelled TV Shows forum

hmmm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

I'd expect them (the Regulators) to be working on this as a priority 7 days a week. Not to cut corners (which in fairness they aren't). That's all we can ask of them.

ShineOn7

Reddit Ireland

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/k8e9ph/outside_a_gp_in_blanchardstown_this_morning/

An expensive looking anti vaccine sign put up outside a GP's office in Blanch

Highlighted comment

"They’ve some amount of money to be spending. I’d love to see where it’s coming from"

Answer:

The same place (most of) the money came from to "fight" against marriage equality and safe access to abortion: the American far right, via religious groups they send here to try to drag Irish society down with them.

They're a fcuking plague, and they're not content with ruining their own country. They have seriously got to be dealt with.

There's going to be a year of this nonsense isn't there?

Doesn't matter. We'll still win

Marty Bird

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Reddit Ireland

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/k8e9ph/outside_a_gp_in_blanchardstown_this_morning/

An expensive looking anti vaccine sign put up outside a GP's office in Blanch

Highlighted comment

There's going to be a year of this nonsense isn't there?

Doesn't matter. We'll still win

What an arsehole that was doing the rounds down at the sea front in Sandycove yesterday.

ShineOn7

Marty Bird wrote: »

What an arsehole that was doing the rounds down at the sea front in Sandycove yesterday.

The same message was on an LED billboard there too?

ACitizenErased

hmmm wrote: »

I'd expect them (the Regulators) to be working on this as a priority 7 days a week. Not to cut corners (which in fairness they aren't). That's all we can ask of them.

I'm not denying that.
My point was it is utterly wrong to suggest that we won't save lives if it was approved today, tomorrow or next week.

ixoy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'm not denying that.
My point was it is utterly wrong to suggest that we won't save lives if it was approved today, tomorrow or next week.

If the EMA found some fundamental flaw though in their review, they might actually save lives, and health anyway, by having not rushed it through. It's unlikely but it's why we have to be sure.

VonLuck

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.
Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

hmmm

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

It's being given to government formally on Friday 11th.

I think there's too many unknowns to give even a hint of guidance at levels unfortunately. I expect the plan will be vaccinate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, and monitor the results on case numbers and hospital capacity.

There was an interesting debate in the US over the weekend as to whether it's better to give a first injection to as many people as possible, or to give a first injection & hold back supply for the second injection. I'd expect issues like that will be mentioned in the plan.

Hooter23

It said on channel 4 news a couple of days ago the vaccine will only sterilize 60-70% of the people that get it

funnydoggy

Hooter23 wrote: »

It said on channel 4 news a couple of days ago the vaccine will only sterilize 60-70% of the people that get it

I hope not :eek::pac:

brisan

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:
February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.
April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.
June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.
etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

The actual plan and how the plan eventually rolls out will in my opinion be two totally different things

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