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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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scooby77

Red C/ Sunday Business Post Poll very positive. 74% overall in favour of taking a vaccine shown to be safe and effective. (78% of men, 71% of women).
47% in favour of mandatory vaccine, 44% against. Those over 55 most in favour of this. Interestingly 62 % in favour of a vaccine requirement for students and those attending large gathering eg sporting events.
Its behind a paywall. I'm sure other news outlets will cover later, at moment focusing on political aspects of the poll!
Delighted ( and maybe a bit surprised) at 74% figure.

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/poll-finds-74-of-irish-public-in-favour-of-taking-new-vaccine-57d5b473

Cork2021

Just a thought.

Let’s say 100,000 will have gotten the virus before we roll out the vaccines.
Should these people be put to the back of the queue in terms of vaccination?
I know that Fauci has said that even previously infected will need the vaccine ,
but ideally they should be last

Russman

Cork2021 wrote: »

Just a thought.

Let’s say 100,000 will have gotten the virus before we roll out the vaccines.
Should these people be put to the back of the queue in terms of vaccination?
I know that Fauci has said that even previously infected will need the vaccine ,
but ideally they should be last

That’s a good point. Is there a single register of the confirmed cases ? I wonder how hard or easy it would be to cross reference it with whatever database they use to do initial planning. Assume it’s PPS numbers, based on having to give that when you get your flu jab ?

CIARAN_BOYLE

They're not publishing plans because there's a lot out of their control.

If vaccine x gets approved they need the data on how vaccine x does with vulnerable groups.

There is no point publishing a list saying the elderly are getting vaccinated first. Then a week later they get actual data that says efficacy on the elderly is 60% while it's 98% in other groups.

If they then pivot and make another group highest priority (expecting another vaccine to have a better performance in the elderly) did they lie to the public? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would accuse them of it?

They have a lot of plans prepared with contingencies based on data.

iamwhoiam

Cork2021 wrote: »

Just a thought.

Let’s say 100,000 will have gotten the virus before we roll out the vaccines.
Should these people be put to the back of the queue in terms of vaccination?
I know that Fauci has said that even previously infected will need the vaccine ,
but ideally they should be last

Good point . As a non scientist my list would be something like this

Care Home nurses and carers
Care Home residents

Frontline staff including all hospital staff and ambulance crews and fire brigade

All vulnerable children and adults with underlying conditions
All Over 70
All over 65
Pharmacists and GP's

Secondary school teachers and SNA
Secondary pupils
National School teachers an d SNA

Those living with immuno compromised and very vulnerable
National school children

rest of population

Cork2021

Russman wrote: »

That’s a good point. Is there a single register of the confirmed cases ? I wonder how hard or easy it would be to cross reference it with whatever database they use to do initial planning. Assume it’s PPS numbers, based on having to give that when you get your flu jab ?

You’d assume as well that out of that approx 100000 figure a good amount would be from care homes etc. That would free up vaccines for other HCW and so on

iamwhoiam

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They're not publishing plans because there's a lot out of their control.

If vaccine x gets approved they need the data on how vaccine x does with vulnerable groups.

There is no point publishing a list saying the elderly are getting vaccinated first. Then a week later they get actual data that says efficacy on the elderly is 60% while it's 98% in other groups.

If they then pivot and make another group highest priority (expecting another vaccine to have a better performance in the elderly) did they lie to the public? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would accuse them of it?

They have a lot of plans prepared with contingencies based on data.

Prof Karina Butler made that very point too

Cork2021

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good point . As a non scientist my list would be something like this

Care Home nurses and carers
Care Home residents

Frontline staff including all hospital staff and ambulance crews and fire brigade

All vulnerable children and adults with underlying conditions
All Over 70
All over 65
Pharmacists and GP's

Secondary school teachers and SNA
Secondary pupils
National School teachers an d SNA

Those living with immuno compromised and very vulnerable
National school children

rest of population

I’d nearly put essential retail workers onto a priority list. Supermarkets, butchers etc we need them open

Russman

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They're not publishing plans because there's a lot out of their control.

If vaccine x gets approved they need the data on how vaccine x does with vulnerable groups.

There is no point publishing a list saying the elderly are getting vaccinated first. Then a week later they get actual data that says efficacy on the elderly is 60% while it's 98% in other groups.

If they then pivot and make another group highest priority (expecting another vaccine to have a better performance in the elderly) did they lie to the public? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would accuse them of it?

They have a lot of plans prepared with contingencies based on data.

That’s very fair and you’d hope it’s correct.
It’s like waiting for Santa though isn’t it, we’re all hanging on every utterance and interview given, to glean a bit more info.
Hopefully regardless of what the priority list is, they’ll soon be able to tell us some of the logistical stuff that has to happen anyway, like where the Pfizer one (because of its storage requirements) will be administered, where the vaccine hubs might be, will the army be involved etc etc.

zerosugarbuzz

Cork2021 wrote: »

I’d nearly put essential retail workers onto a priority list. Supermarkets, butchers etc we need them open

Virtually none of them have become ill from Covid since last March. Something in that I think.

Russman

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good point . As a non scientist my list would be something like this

Care Home nurses and carers
Care Home residents

Frontline staff including all hospital staff and ambulance crews and fire brigade

All vulnerable children and adults with underlying conditions
All Over 70
All over 65
Pharmacists and GP's

Secondary school teachers and SNA
Secondary pupils
National School teachers an d SNA

Those living with immuno compromised and very vulnerable
National school children

rest of population

I’d broadly agree. Have any of the vaccines been tested on 12-18 year olds ? I can’t remember.

lbj666

Cork2021 wrote: »

Just a thought.

Let’s say 100,000 will have gotten the virus before we roll out the vaccines.
Should these people be put to the back of the queue in terms of vaccination?
I know that Fauci has said that even previously infected will need the vaccine ,
but ideally they should be last

If it gets too granular on whos priority or not, it'll be forever rolling out. Priority list was drawn with those first batchs in mind. Supply should be the critical factor.
At some point a line must be drawn and say right! its available for everyone, moving down the age groups.

is_that_so

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

I wonder could one go to another country to get the vaccine if it is available sooner than in Ireland to the general public?

There will be limited supplies, for a while anyway unless you're in an at risk group.

wadacrack

Conspiracy theories/ miss information online having way to much of an influence on younger age groups. The risks of side effects from ths vaccine will be far less than the virus.

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1332998808855252992

is_that_so

Sky King wrote: »

The UK made an absolute balls of their handling of covid. They also like lies and spin.

Talk is cheap, I'll be holding them in high regard as a great example of vaccine rollout management that puts ours to shame when they've done it.

There's also a 'get one over on Franc and Fritz' narrative there that the tories are feeding into:

Until they've done the business and actually put us all to shame with their rollout skills, I won't be looking to the UK for leadership.

I'm taking the Irish caution as a sign its being done right. Maybe I am wrong. We'll see.

Pretty much agree with this; the UK almost have to be seen to be doing something positive, plus we have a COVID plan for the next 5-6 weeks already. January was always the starting point for us.

lbj666

wadacrack wrote: »

Conspiracy theories/ miss information online having way to much of an influence on younger age groups. The risks of side effects from ths vaccine will be far less than the virus.

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1332998808855252992

It's more to do with different age groups weighting up their doubts Vs chances of getting a bad dose of covid. Chances of a bad dose get less if the are younger.

I would say all age groups are as vulnerable to misinfo as anyone else, younger may get it online but older would get it's from hear say and old wives tails etc. Or that one story they heard on the news etc.

Anyway it's not the thread for it.

Micky 32

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

I wonder could one go to another country to get the vaccine if it is available sooner than in Ireland to the general public?

I was chatting to a friend about that the other day. She was born in the UK , she’s 50 but living in Ireland 45 years. She was wondering would she be entitled to a UK vaccine because she’s technically a UK citizen but i suspect you have to be resident in the other country, could be wrong though.

Irish Stones

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

I wonder could one go to another country to get the vaccine if it is available sooner than in Ireland to the general public?

I also wonder if vaccine is given to people who are not citizens of a country, but where they are living in for a reason.
I know foreign people in my country, and I wonder if they have to go back to their own country (and stay there for several weeks) to have it. Same thing will apply for the rest of the world.

Over here in Italy, there's the urban legend that most Chinese persons have gone back to China to get their vaccine, and that several doses have been smuggled into Italy for those Chinese citizens that can't travel back. Of course, when asked by TV reporters, the Chinese community says they know nothing about this, or they pretend not to understand our language.

iguana

wadacrack wrote: »

Conspiracy theories/ miss information online having way to much of an influence on younger age groups. The risks of side effects from ths vaccine will be far less than the virus.

Another thing is that the older generations are much more inclined to accept what they are told by some they perceive to be an expert. My 90 year old grandmother wouldn't hesitate to take something her doctor tells her to take. When either he or the government tells her to come and get her vaccine, she will take her vaccine without question. Younger generations are more likely to question 'expert' advice because we're more educated and have experienced cases of experts being wrong and it having negative consequences, either ourselves or know if others.

It's not wrong of us to question things. The problem comes from people utterly misdirecting their scepticism. I've had experience of my son being mis-prescribed and given a medicine that made his condition worse. I believe I asked the right questions at the time and I'm still quite angry that he was given what he was given. But I'm not going to let one doctor making a mistake sour me on the whole of western medicine. That would be just stupid. But I have unfortunately had people I know, use my son's experience as part of their argument for not trusting doctors, the health system and vaccinations.

iguana

Irish Stones wrote: »

Over here in Italy, there's the urban legend that most Chinese persons have gone back to China to get their vaccine, and that several doses have been smuggled into Italy for those Chinese citizens that can't travel back. Of course, when asked by TV reporters, the Chinese community says they know nothing about this, or they pretend not to understand our language.

That definitely sounds like an urban legend considering the fact that the majority of Chinese citizens living in China have yet to be vaccinated.

Irish Stones

iguana wrote: »

That definitely sounds like an urban legend considering the fact that the majority of Chinese citizens living in China have yet to be vaccinated.

Yes, that's true, but someone claims there's a "secret vaccine" over there, and that many are getting it. Sounds like a fake news, indeed.

But this might explain why most Chinese shops have been closed several days now, and aren't planning to open soon.
Milan, the main city in the north of the country, has a large neighbour with Chinese only, and most shops are closed. It was on TV two days ago.

BrianD3

Russman wrote: »

That’s very fair and you’d hope it’s correct.
It’s like waiting for Santa though isn’t it, we’re all hanging on every utterance and interview given, to glean a bit more info.
Hopefully regardless of what the priority list is, they’ll soon be able to tell us some of the logistical stuff that has to happen anyway, like where the Pfizer one (because of its storage requirements) will be administered, where the vaccine hubs might be, will the army be involved etc etc.

Re: the logistical stuff, the authorities can have all the task forces, committees, implementation groups and meetings of same that they want, they obviously also need practical, technical people with a knowledge of how things work on the ground.

I worked in the public service for many years and saw several issues/delays with much smaller projects and programmes due to lack of practical knowledge and not asking the right people for their input.

For these vaccines, if, for example, consumables are needed to administer them has it been verified that there will be enough (in date) consumables in the warehouse. We don't want another PPE or PCR buffer situation and the HSE going into spin mode about there being a worldwide shortage. Also technical things like say (completely making this up as an illustration) if cold storage units are to be distributed to GP surgeries do they need single or three phase electricity.

The vaccine rollout is one of the most important things that we've done since the foundation of the state. Too late now but maybe there should have been some form of public consultation weeks ago. You'd get a lot of rubbish back but it would also be guaranteed that you 'd get some good titbits that could make a real difference.

Irish Stones

iguana wrote: »

But I have unfortunately had people I know, use my son's experience as part of their argument for not trusting doctors, the health system and vaccinations.

I lost my trust in doctors and their like when my GP made a similar mistake on myself.
I had a condition, that doctor tried what she thought it might be a good treatment, and caused a series of events that not only didn't cure my condition, but also made a few things worse.
I haven't fully recovered from them after 13 years.
So if someone asks me for my opinion on doctors, well... you know the answer!

iguana

Irish Stones wrote: »

Yes, that's true, but someone claims there's a "secret vaccine" over there, and that many are getting it. Sounds like a fake news, indeed.

As far as I know, there are two vaccines being given in China at present. Cansino and Sinopharm. This isn't a secret. But China are nowhere near completing vaccination of their people at home. From what I have heard from people with family in China, vaccination is prioritised for people in regions where there are or have been outbreaks. People in cities where Covid hasn't been a big problem aren't expecting to be vaccinated in the immediate future.

ACitizenErased

That Sunday Times article posted a few pages back boils my blood.
Why the **** are we waiting a few days before starting vaccinations?

It literally takes 3-4 hours max from Dublin to anywhere in the country - they could start same day ffs

[Deleted User]

wadacrack wrote: »

Conspiracy theories/ miss information online having way to much of an influence on younger age groups. The risks of side effects from ths vaccine will be far less than the virus.

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1332998808855252992

My mam is in her late 60s. When she was a child she lived next door to a man with Polio. Seeing the effects of it first hand absolutely frightened the life out of her.

Part of the problem is younger generations have grown up without seeing the devastation caused by infectious diseases before vaccines.

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

I also wonder if vaccine is given to people who are not citizens of a country, but where they are living in for a reason.
.

I would say foreigners and illegals ( like in the USA etc) will get access to the vaccines because this is about curbing the spread of the virus.

hmmm

BrianD3 wrote: »

The vaccine rollout is one of the most important things that we've done since the foundation of the state. Too late now but maybe there should have been some form of public consultation weeks ago. You'd get a lot of rubbish back but it would also be guaranteed that you 'd get some good titbits that could make a real difference.

Even if they have made extensive preparations in the background, at least some of this should have been done in public - the politicians should have led on this.

Potentially 250,000 people in Ireland could be asked to attend for vaccinations over the next few weeks. I don't think the population realises how quickly this could happen, and with any sudden change you need to prepare people for it particularly when there is so much disinformation being posted on social media about vaccines.

JTMan

David McRedmond (CEO of An Post) has called for a "sense of urgency" in vaccine distribution in Ireland like there is in the UK. He is correct, we need to hear urgency and a push for speed in the voices of politicians and the HSE. This has to happen quickly to save lives.

Meanwhile, Dr Adrian Hill one of the leaders of the Oxford Vaccine has said vaccine rollout should see normality return “late-Spring /early-Summer”. A separate report in the UK yesterday said that normality would resume around 4 April 2021 (Easter) in the UK. In the US, those in charge of vaccine distribution say normality will resume in May 2021.

https://twitter.com/DavidMcredmond/status/1333005304494252034

[Deleted User]

JTMan wrote: »

David McRedmond (CEO of An Post) has called for a "sense of urgency" in vaccine distribution in Ireland like there is in the UK. He is correct, we need to hear urgency and a push for speed in the voices of politicians and the HSE. This has to happen quickly to save lives.

Meanwhile, Dr Adrian Hill one of the leaders of the Oxford Vaccine has said vaccine rollout should see normality return “late-Spring /early-Summer”. A separate report in the UK yesterday said that normality would resume around 4 April 2021 (Easter) in the UK. In the US, those in charge of vaccine distribution say normality will resume in May 2021.

https://twitter.com/DavidMcredmond/status/1333005304494252034

Germany I think have said September for a return to normality. Canada last week said October.

I think that the more populist leaders (US and UK most notably), are massively overpromising. It’s not like they don’t have a track record in that regard.