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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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Timistry

Akabusi wrote: »

Yes very true, my thinking is that if they have the at risk vaccinated, there will be little to no restrictions next summer anyhow.

There will definetely be restrictions next summer. There are huge logisitical and storage challenges with administering the Pfizer vaccine. Say if 50% of the population is vacinatied by next summer (very very ambitious) then the other 50% are still as vunerable as they are today. The only way to protect them is to socially distance, limit numbers of people congregating ect.

I want this to be over too but the reality is we are probably about half way towards having our old way of life back.

Eivor

Timistry wrote: »

There will definetely be restrictions next summer. There are huge logisitical and storage challenges with administering the Pfizer vaccine. Say if 50% of the population is vacinatied by next summer (very very ambitious) then the other 50% are still as vunerable as they are today. The only way to protect them is to socially distance, limit numbers of people congregating ect.

I want this to be over too but the reality is we are probably about half way towards having our old way of life back.

Once at risk groups of people are vaccinated, we will have no need to have restrictions anymore. People who aren’t vulnerable have no need to live under restrictions when the virus poses no real threat to them.

Thierry12

Timistry wrote: »

There will definetely be restrictions next summer. There are huge logisitical and storage challenges with administering the Pfizer vaccine. Say if 50% of the population is vacinatied by next summer (very very ambitious) then the other 50% are still as vunerable as they are today. The only way to protect them is to socially distance, limit numbers of people congregating ect.

I want this to be over too but the reality is we are probably about half way towards having our old way of life back.

Not a chance

Your really underestimating human endeavor

If we can get a PlayStation or iPhone into everyones hands in 6 months from launch then we've got this

There will be 8 or 9 vaccines confirmed by New Year

Covid is over baby

Gael23

Eivor wrote: »

Once at risk groups of people are vaccinated, we will have no need to have restrictions anymore. People who aren’t vulnerable have no need to live under restrictions when the virus poses no real threat to them.

Try telling Holohan that

Eivor

Gael23 wrote: »

Try telling Holohan that

Don’t mind him. Compliance is crap at the minute, wait till people get a whiff of an imminent vaccine. People will do what they like.

FFVII

What are they 90% effective against? The original corona virus? Not the now what is it, 4 strains of it?

Seasonal flu is 60% odd effective on a good year if they guess the right strain.

Do these vaccines need endangered shark liver to work. 250,000 sharks are to be slaughtered for a vaccine against a bug that apparently has a less than 1% fatality rate?

Do governments have to pay to develop the vaccines?

froog

and we've entered the anti-vaccer period. strap in follks! it's going to get nutty.

[Deleted User]

Timistry wrote: »

There will definetely be restrictions next summer. There are huge logisitical and storage challenges with administering the Pfizer vaccine. Say if 50% of the population is vacinatied by next summer (very very ambitious) then the other 50% are still as vunerable as they are today. The only way to protect them is to socially distance, limit numbers of people congregating ect.

I want this to be over too but the reality is we are probably about half way towards having our old way of life back.

I fail to see how Covid could be a large issue for our health service with half the country vaccinated and another small % immune from having had it.

What would the peak R rate be? If slightly less than half of the country can get it surely it will pretty much always go below 1 and only be circulating in relatively small numbers..

That's before considering that the ones vaccinated will likely be the more vulnerable.

Completely off topic, but if anyone's doubting Countries' abilities to distribute this - watch WW2 in colour on Netflix, brilliant documentary and shows the level of organisation and production that is achieved when Countries really need to (in that case for awful reasons). Might sound like an odd comment, but genuinely - these things happen at a completely different pace when you have the resources involved we're talking about.

quokula

Thierry12 wrote: »

Not a chance

Your really underestimating human endeavor

If we can get a PlayStation or iPhone into everyones hands in 6 months from launch then we've got this

There will be 8 or 9 vaccines confirmed by New Year

Covid is over baby

About 200 million iPhones are sold per year. Everyone who buys one does so at a personal cost of around a thousand euros. The production facilities have been in place for years, and they can be transported at room temperature and don't have a shelf life to worry about. They can be delivered to a shop or to your door by any old sales person or van driver. No checks need to be done on your medical history, allergies, or whether you've already received too many iPhones, before you receive it.

There will be demand for 14 billion vaccines (two doses per person), at a far lower cost per vaccine, with production ramping up from zero, and much more significant storage and shelf life issues to deal with. Each vaccine, once delivered, will then need to be administered by a trained specialist in a sterile environment, with due attention to the recipient's medical history and dosage requirements.

It's a far bigger task than delivering a few iPhones, unfortunately.

Water John

'a trained specialist in a sterile environment' quokula.
A come on, it's a nurse, doctor, vet even with a syringe and a swab giving a standard dose probably.

hmmm

Eivor wrote: »

Once at risk groups of people are vaccinated, we will have no need to have restrictions anymore. People who aren’t vulnerable have no need to live under restrictions when the virus poses no real threat to them.

I don't agree, middle-aged people aren't too thrilled at the prospect of getting Covid even if it's probably (probably) not going to kill them. There's enough disease in that cohort to fill our hospitals if we let it spread unrestricted. Also even if the vaccines are 90% effective, that still means we can't let this disease run rampant and infect the 10% who unknowingly are still vulnerable.

We're probably going to step back through restrictions as the vaccine starts to eat into the Covid wave, but it will take more than the vaccination of the elderly/vulnerable to get restrictions lifted - we'll need to approach herd immunity and see only sparodic outbreaks before we can relax.

Deeper Blue

ACitizenErased wrote: »

RTE can **** off. People should remember this going into the future.

Their reporting since the start of the pandemic has been shameful.

Older folks that get most if not all of their news from them are scared stiff. Even when there are clear signs of hope they do their best to piss all over it.

They're a ****ing disgrace.

Le Bruise

quokula wrote: »

There will be demand for 14 billion vaccines (two doses per person), at a far lower cost per vaccine, with production ramping up from zero, and much more significant storage and shelf life issues to deal with. Each vaccine, once delivered, will then need to be administered by a trained specialist in a sterile environment, with due attention to the recipient's medical history and dosage requirements.

It's a far bigger task than delivering a few iPhones, unfortunately.

Firstly, the storage on the Moderna Vaccine (and others) will not have the same issues as the Pfizer one. Secondly, they're not ramping production up from zero, they've been making it en masse for the last few months in the hope that it works. Finally, any healthcare professional (within reason) can administer a vaccine.

Of course it won't be easy, but no need to go make it sound a hell of a lot harder!!

FFVII

froog wrote: »

and we've entered the anti-vaccer period. strap in follks! it's going to get nutty.

Read again dip sh1t

quokula

Water John wrote: »

'a trained specialist in a sterile environment' quokula.
A come on, it's a nurse, doctor, vet even with a syringe and a swab giving a standard dose probably.

Pretty disrespectful of nurses and doctors that you don't consider them to be trained specialists.

Necro

Mod:

Threads merged

Irish Stones

AdamD wrote: »

I fail to see how Covid could be a large issue for our health service with half the country vaccinated and another small % immune from having had it.

You're saying that those who already have had it are/might be immune, and this is what has been questioned a few times.
I believe they are, many other people think they are not.

Cordell

They are multi million/billion corporations currently moving a huge catalogue of products, they won't have any issue handling one more.

Irish Stones

Water John wrote: »

'a trained specialist in a sterile environment' quokula.
A come on, it's a nurse, doctor, vet even with a syringe and a swab giving a standard dose probably.

I think that nearly everybody is able to give a shot into a muscle.
How many of us have given a syringe of some med to their pet already?
I'm not saying that cats and people are just the same (to someone they are), but I think that shooting a needle in somebody's arm doesn't require a special training.

Eivor

hmmm wrote: »

I don't agree, middle-aged people aren't too thrilled at the prospect of getting Covid even if it's probably (probably) not going to kill them. There's enough disease in that cohort to fill our hospitals if we let it spread unrestricted. Also even if the vaccines are 90% effective, that still means we can't let this disease run rampant and infect the 10% who unknowingly are still vulnerable.

We're probably going to step back through restrictions as the vaccine starts to eat into the Covid wave, but it will take more than the vaccination of the elderly/vulnerable to get restrictions lifted - we'll need to approach herd immunity and see only sparodic outbreaks before we can relax.

There will be zero appetite for restrictions in any age group with a viable vaccine being distributed to the people we’ve locked down to protect.

hmmm

Le Bruise wrote: »

Of course it won't be easy, but no need to go make it sound a hell of a lot harder!!

Aren't we administering 2 million flu vaccines this year? I'm not seeing the massive logistical problem rolling out Covid vaccines over 6 months will be (although it will take planning). A couple of doctors/nurses driving around to every nursing home in the country won't take too long for a start.

As someone said earlier in the thread, considering the economic benefits of getting this deployed I can't see the HSE hanging around.

stephenjmcd

EU deal with CureVac done. 405m doses.
The deal will initially cover 225 million doses, with an option to buy another 180 million.

hmmm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

EU deal with CureVac done. 405m doses.
The deal will initially cover 225 million doses, with an option to buy another 180 million.

They're German aren't they? I think the deals with them and Sanofi are primarily to give the EU an option in case the US government goes rogue and seizes the supply of some of the US manufacturers. Probably less of a risk under Biden, but one that should still be considered.

stephenjmcd

hmmm wrote: »

They're German aren't they? I think the deals with them and Sanofi are primarily to give the EU an option in case the US government goes rogue and seizes the supply of some of the US manufacturers. Probably less of a risk under Biden, but one that should still be considered.

Yup German company, most seem to be splitting production though, American plants for the states and EU supply in the EU plants.

Stark

Looks like Curevac is even easier to store https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/curevac-s-mrna-coronavirus-shot-holds-edge-over-pfizer-and-moderna-counterparts-refrigerated . Hopefully being another mRNA platform, it will show similar results to Pfizer and Moderna. Anyone any idea when we might see interim results?

Mention in that article as well about Pfizer working on a "powdered" version of their vaccine which might be easier to rollout.

firemansam4

Great news, once we get through these latest restrictions and start looking towards Spring there is a very clear light at the end of this very sh**ty tunnel for us all.

Have to say this thread has been very informative and given me hope away from all the negative news and spin from much of the media.
Hopefully the good news keeps on coming now...

tobefrank321

El Sueño wrote: »

Their reporting since the start of the pandemic has been shameful.

Older folks that get most if not all of their news from them are scared stiff. Even when there are clear signs of hope they do their best to piss all over it.

They're a ****ing disgrace.

They've had zero regard for people's mental health since the start. They've been quick to jump on negative stories and put them out as their main headline, both online and on TV and radio.

As far as RTE are concerned, no-one ever recovers from covid. You either die or are incapacitated for life, and you can be reinfected over and over if you do survive one infection.

You'd wonder if those writing the headlines ever stop for one minute to consider what impact their negative stories would have on people. There's been many reports of suicides in the UK from people struggling with lockdown and a feeling of no end in sight. Possibly the same in Ireland.

tobefrank321

Le Bruise wrote: »

Firstly, the storage on the Moderna Vaccine (and others) will not have the same issues as the Pfizer one. Secondly, they're not ramping production up from zero, they've been making it en masse for the last few months in the hope that it works. Finally, any healthcare professional (within reason) can administer a vaccine.

Of course it won't be easy, but no need to go make it sound a hell of a lot harder!!

The Pfizer one does appear to require more work when administering than even your average pharmacist or GP is used to. Sounds like mistakes are possible. You have to mix it with another liquid and obviously you have a 5 day "best before date" at ordinary fridge temperatures. And of course we will have the HSE in charge of roll out.

Sconsey

Stark wrote: »

Looks like Curevac is even easier to store https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/curevac-s-mrna-coronavirus-shot-holds-edge-over-pfizer-and-moderna-counterparts-refrigerated . Hopefully being another mRNA platform, it will show similar results to Pfizer and Moderna. Anyone any idea when we might see interim results?

Mention in that article as well about Pfizer working on a "powdered" version of their vaccine which might be easier to rollout.

Does not look like thay have started phase three trials yet according to this (last paragraph).

Hmmzis

Stark wrote: »

Looks like Curevac is even easier to store https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/curevac-s-mrna-coronavirus-shot-holds-edge-over-pfizer-and-moderna-counterparts-refrigerated . Hopefully being another mRNA platform, it will show similar results to Pfizer and Moderna. Anyone any idea when we might see interim results?

Mention in that article as well about Pfizer working on a "powdered" version of their vaccine which might be easier to rollout.

Here is their phase 1 paper:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.09.20228551v1.full.pdf+html

They're looking at 16ug and 20ug doses as well as the 12ug does not seem to be inducing all that great of a neutralizing titer (it's ok, but not great).