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US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Quin_Dub

Continuation thread from here

All existing rules still stand.

Everyone will want to be active in this thread over the next few days , but there will be zero tolerance for Forum rule breaches.

Keep it Sensible , Civil and Polite please.

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ExMachina1000

greenfield21 wrote: »

I thought biden was going to up tax rate and i doubt dems will go after two of his biggest donors pharma and tech. It wouldn't help stocks so politicians won't be in favour of it.

I'm just quoting his policies and promises.

gmisk

Shelga wrote: »

Also does anyone else find it really odd and worrying that it's 22 degrees in NYC, Phildelphia, DC etc- in November.

Get back in Paris Agreement ASAP.

Biden has already said he will be rejoining

~Rebel~

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Iv no interest in speculating which jobs. That's not the foundation of my post.

These are the campaign policies of the new president of the United states. I'm just trying to discuss them. They are part of his plans.

I'm not sure it's really relevent to the types of US corporation jobs that are in Ireland though...

I think a lot of the jobs he wants to bring back are those that are more being outsources for cost-cutting. Less than 10% of US clothing sold in the US, by US companies, are made in the US. Same goes for manufacturing of parts, where they're designed in the US, outsourced for manufacturing, and reimported to the US for assembly or sale.

The bulk of jobs in Ireland by contrast are logistical, taking place in the European Headquarters of those companies, where you need people on the ground within the market - or manufacturing jobs like at Apple, where they're manufacturing for sale within the European market. Or pharma manufacturing, where obviously it's best practice to have hubs around the world for consistent distribution of vital medications.

MJohnston

Manic Moran wrote: »

And here's me thinking "we had an election, a winner seems to have come from it, and the country continues to tick along". Maybe I'm getting blasee after decades of sequential incidents of "the most important/significant/critical election in American history".

In fairness, it's pretty clear you're speaking from a privileged position here as you're an Irish immigrant living in the US, which suggests you're on a decent salary and I'd assume you're a white male.

So, of course you'd be blasé about the outcome! I'm not trying to attack here, I just genuinely mean that you're in the demographic that is always least effected by political winds.

Even here in Ireland, we're more affected by US politics than someone white and middle class living in the US!

That he was elected as senator in 1972 is half-damning. Credit to his service and appeal, but that's five decades of not relating to the non-poilitical class?

I'm not sure I follow? He was senator from 1973 until he became Vice President - that suggests to me that he's able to relate just fine to the people of Delaware. His previous runs for President ended in the primaries, which generally do not attract the "non-political class" to vote.

So 2008, 2012, and 2020 are the only times he's been seeking election from the national non-political class, and he's 3 for 3.

Brussels Sprout

I make it that Wisconsin is currently the Tipping Point state (coincidentally it was also the TP State in 2016). However, the remainder of the votes will likely shift the ordering about so there's a fair bit yet to go until we can say for certain:

If I was responsible for running the primaries I would have these states as the first ones in the calendar rather then Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

StringerBell

shocksy wrote: »

The betting is moving again in Trumps favour.

Trump will get over the line and watching the dems cry for the next 4 years will be a joy to watch.

Some absolute gold to be found in these posts. Gold.

So, what time will the President elect be speaking tonight?

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Take the betting stuff to the gambling forum please.

Brussels Sprout

StringerBell wrote: »

Some absolute gold to be found in these posts. Gold.

So, what time will the President elect be speaking tonight?

1am.

Roanmore

Trump supporters on Twitter really turning on Fox News now. Calling it the Judas channel, etc.
Strange to see.

Tired Gardener

Feels like hope has returned to the world, going to be a nice to see a president who has a vocabulary greater than a 6 year old.

Can see Trump slink off and move to Russia.

Hopefully the world will forget about him, let him fall in to obscurity.

Headshot

That is a great sign on CNN at the moment

"We grabbed him by the ballots"

[Deleted User]

As far as the Paris Climate accord goes, can Biden at the very least make it so that a future president alone can't take them out again without Congress etc. going with it?
Once the next fews days/weeks of relief pass the Realpolitik of being able to rely on the US going forward will return.

harr

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Feels like hope has returned to the world, going to be a nice to see a president who has a vocabulary greater than a 6 year old.

Can see Trump slink off and move to Russia.

Hopefully the world will forget about him, let him fall in to obscurity.

And hopefully the republicans cut all ties with him as well , I can see a lot of them distancing themselves from him now and wanting to regroup.
You will still have the hard core who will stay by him.

CrabRevolution

I'm glad Biden won. An early faller in the democrat race (name escapes me)put it best in proclaiming as a selling point that you wouldn't see him every day if he got elected.

One thing that astounds me in one way but not really in another, is how self inflicted Trump's coronavirus damage was. He chose, and continues to adopt the most extreme position regarding the virus; to just do nothing whatsoever, claim every few days that they've rounded a corner and it's going away, and has actually undermined and criticised the public health authorities' efforts to combat it.

His base lap this up, citing the economy, freedom etc. but it can only have contributed to the loss of some more moderate voters who would otherwise have voted for him. But he is effectively a God to millions of Americans. They change their beliefs to align with what he does, and he can do no wrong. Their driving force is their hatred for the portion of of America they see as liberals/woke/leftists etc. and Trump is the antithesis of that, so they love him.

I can't help but feel that a slightly more moderate or proactive stance from Trump on coronavirus wouldn't have been so much tolerated as embraced by his base. He can do no wrong after all. It needn't have been total lockdown, but anything other than the total dereliction of duty that they got would probably have tipped a lot of moderates his way thinking "Well, the economy is doing OK, and at least he's trying to fight the virus" and voted for him. He would have lost no votes with his base, but gained many more moderates.

But instead all they got was a blanket denial that the virus even mattered, and few token efforts to combat it in ineffective ways. It wasn't the only reason for his loss, but it must have contributed.

Brussels Sprout

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as the Paris Climate accord goes, can Biden at the very least make it so that a future president alone can't take them out again without Congress etc. going with it?
Once the next fews days/weeks of relief pass the Realpolitik of being able to rely on the US going forward will return.

If the Democrats don't win those 2 races in Georgia in January it'll be difficult for Biden to do anything major on climate change legislation. He can rejoin the Paris Climate Change agreement but when it comes to passing new laws or spending major money he'll need Congress to play ball.

Itssoeasy

And in a shock to no one CNN are reporting that president trump has not conceded or phoned joe Biden. Now it’s not a requirement to make a concession phone call, but it does seem to be a courtesy that is extended but as we know president trump isn’t known for his adherence to norms and customs.

MJohnston

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as the Paris Climate accord goes, can Biden at the very least make it so that a future president alone can't take them out again without Congress etc. going with it?
Once the next fews days/weeks of relief pass the Realpolitik of being able to rely on the US going forward will return.

So I think the most important thing in terms of climate politics will not be what Biden does, but what he doesn't do.

America may be a bunch of separate states, but they are a single consumer market. That means that products, like cars, created for any state have to comply with regulations for all states (unless they want to go to a lot of expense having separate production lines for different regulation levels).

And while on a federal level the US has been rolling back emission standards and stuff like that, states like California have been pressing on and progressing anyway. And that means that they're essentially setting the standards for the entire country.

The problem under Trump was that he was making legal challenges to try and prevent California from doing so: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/climate/trump-california-emissions-waiver.html

Now with Biden in the White House, he can reverse what Trump has done, he can reset EPA standards, he can let California set their own stronger standards (and therefore not have to deal with the Senate for federal regulation) which will ripple outwards.

Itssoeasy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

If the Democrats don't win those 2 races in Georgia in January it'll be difficult for Biden to do anything major on climate change legislation. He can rejoin the Paris Climate Change agreement but when it comes to passing new laws or spending major money he'll need Congress to play ball.

Well it’ll be easier if they can win those two seats but it was said on MSNBC earlier that there is an interview from 2016 from Mitch McConnell where he says that he was able to work with joe Biden during the Obama presidency to get things done. So we will have to see and given his years in Washington and the senate, if joe Biden can’t work with republicans and try to get things done then Washington really is broken as many Americans seem to claim.

Edit: I just checked the current make up of the senate and one one democratic senator comes close to him as when he first was elected to the senate and that’s Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

Edit:2 so I’ve gone through all 538 members of the 116th congress and one person was there before joe Biden got to the senate.

[Deleted User]

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

If the Democrats don't win those 2 races in Georgia in January it'll be difficult for Biden to do anything major on climate change legislation. He can rejoin the Paris Climate Change agreement but when it comes to passing new laws or spending major money he'll need Congress to play ball.

I don't see the Dems winning either of those seats.
I still find it so strange that Biden could win Georgia but lose Ohio and for PA to be so close. I'll be interested to see the state-swings from 2016 to this year and if Biden did comparatively better in the GOP strongholds in the South. If so it would make me think that solid GOP people down there rejected Trump while further North his voters turned out for him rather than the GOP.

Movementarian

Is there any word on how Arizona count is going or when more results are expected there?

prawnsambo

MJohnston wrote: »

In fairness, it's pretty clear you're speaking from a privileged position here as you're an Irish immigrant living in the US, which suggests you're on a decent salary and I'd assume you're a white male.

So, of course you'd be blasé about the outcome! I'm not trying to attack here, I just genuinely mean that you're in the demographic that is always least effected by political winds.

To be fair, Manic drove tanks in Afghanistan. That's pretty exposed in the political winds department.

greenfield21

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I'm just quoting his policies and promises.

Yeah and he will never follow through with it, why go after your biggest donors and powerful lobbying groups like pharma, tech. Sure look at the biden website below and follow the link on the word encouraged. It takes you to an article about Ireland. It means nothing.

https://joebiden.com/supplychains/

jackboy

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as the Paris Climate accord goes, can Biden at the very least make it so that a future president alone can't take them out again without Congress etc. going with it?
Once the next fews days/weeks of relief pass the Realpolitik of being able to rely on the US going forward will return.

That accord was just a PR stunt. It will achieve almost nothing for the environment. He would be better off being honest, stay out of it and try some real action to improve the environment.

Brian?

Not surprisingly John Bolton is laying into Trump.

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1325188180249767938?s=20

jimbob_jones

Ok one less thing to worry about, now back to worrying about Brexit and Covid-19

everlast75

Brian? wrote: »

Not surprisingly John Bolton is laying into Trump.

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1325188180249767938?s=20

Brave man now.

He had the chance to give evidence at the impeachment trial and chose instead to sell his book.

Another little coward in the GOP.

Brian?

everlast75 wrote: »

Brave man now.

He had the chance to give evidence at the impeachment trial and chose instead to sell his book.

Another little coward in the GOP.

Completely agree

pixelburp

John Bolton causing a deep, sarcastic eye roll. The performative Road to Damascus begins with the GOP and its adherents; I "look forward" to all these declarations that, of course, they always knew Trump was a bad egg ...

Five Eighth

rossie1977 wrote: »

Far left want to defund the police! That statement makes zero sense.

Every communist nation last 100 years have all been police states...

Democrats are not. This is lies that Republicans and right wing media (and many msn are getting behind) would have you believe. Its been going on 40 years now and they have managed to convince some folk for sure.

Republicans might continually say 'Democrats no longer care about working class but we do' but you only have to look at both parties voting records to see only one care about the ordinary working folk https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/2pwhvt/the_differences_between_the_democratic_party_and/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

The Democrats might view themselves as the ‘party of the people’ but millions of the white working class voted for Trump. Many believe that the Democratic Party has lost touch with their values. Just because they voted for Trump and believe in ‘America First’ shouldn’t mean that they are viewed as ‘deplorables’. Their priorities include decent jobs, trade union representation, universal health insurance, education and a welfare safety net. I think it's quite possible that Trump might well have won if it hadn't had Biden as the opposing Democrat. The Democrats need to get their message out there that they understand and respect the concerns of their natural support base.

ExMachina1000

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I'm not sure it's really relevent to the types of US corporation jobs that are in Ireland though...

I think a lot of the jobs he wants to bring back are those that are more being outsources for cost-cutting. Less than 10% of US clothing sold in the US, by US companies, are made in the US. Same goes for manufacturing of parts, where they're designed in the US, outsourced for manufacturing, and reimported to the US for assembly or sale.

The bulk of jobs in Ireland by contrast are logistical, taking place in the European Headquarters of those companies, where you need people on the ground within the market - or manufacturing jobs like at Apple, where they're manufacturing for sale within the European market. Or pharma manufacturing, where obviously it's best practice to have hubs around the world for consistent distribution of vital medications.

That's a fair point. He might be focusing on outsourcing to cut costs companies. It would make more sense for sure.