nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

What do you believe happens when we die

sallyanne12

Complete the poll and let us know

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Hotblack Desiato

Tonnes, kilos, schmilos. NASA has done worse. And the bigger boys made me do it.

auspicious

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

What have I done? :eek:

Zero is a REAL number.
If zero exists God exists.

one world order

Simply ceasing to exist means one has to deny the spiritual realm exists. That means denying the existence of angels, demons, people being possessed resulting in abnormal behaviour, many of the new age spiritual practices that involve spiritual guides that are really demons, a person's eternal soul, and a day of judgement for everyone. It's a lot of denying. I don't think there is any atheist that truly believes there is no creator.

tjdaly

Nobody has a clue OP and don't let the atheists or anybody else tell you otherwise. Enjoy the mystery, use your intuition, and believe whatever makes you happy.

Lorddrakul

I would contend that, while no one has definitive answers, the parameters of the discussion are not as unknowable as they might appear.

For example, it has been known since ancient times, that a bang to the head can fundamentally alter a person's nature.

We now know that to be brain injury. The Egyptians sent us along the wrong path for millennia, with the heart as the seat of emotions, even though we now also know that there are ganglia of brain-like neurons in the heart too.

The point is, conscious resides and emanates from the brain and an impaired brain, through injury or disease, can show a deterioration in a person's consciousness.

Therefore, if consciousness cannot be separated from the brain, then it makes the idea of a soul, spirit, whatever, very difficult.

Prof Brian Cox put it very succinctly when he said that we have now, for about 150 years, refined what has become known as the standard model, which includes the sum of all knowledge about how matter, space and energy interact.

All we know thus far, he said, indicates that energy on its own, without physical structure, will dissipate. Therefore, if the soul can exist independently of the body, it does so in a manner not just completely unknown, but also completely unevidenced - as in, no hint or indication what or which might be at play.

This is tantamount to the very idea of gods themselves - unknowable. And therefore, mere conjecture, up there with teapots orbiting the other side of the sun.

From a logical perspective, I have to say: feck that from a height.

Everything we associate with the personal experience of the divine, from the all consuming presence, to the feeling of oneness with the universe, or even the demon presence, can be induced with drugs, or other physical stress. This would indicate that what we are experiencing is not the divine, but a biological interpretation of a set of stimuli that tends to go in one direction. But, that one direction has resulted in the veritable cornucopia of belief, religions and daftness that we enjoy today.

I do not claim to know why we do this; there are probably evolutionary advantages to having religious ideas, such as social cohesion, order and species distribution, but it does result in some awful behaviour by our species.

The more we refine our ability to measure what is going on in our brains and nervous systems, the more we understand how our brains work.

We now know that there is a level of precognition in our decision making that is breathtaking in its effect but very hard to understand in its effectiveness. It has been shown that the certain decisions are made by certain parts of the brain milliseconds before the conscious part becomes aware of it, or responds.

But the fact remains, consciousness, in every single test that has ever been devised or carried out, does not survive the destruction of the brain that produced it.

Not only that, everything else we have learned about the environment it exists in supports that position.

To ignore this and persist in an unsupported belief, or worse still to insist that others alter their lives to conform to it, is the very height of madness.

I fully believe in people's rights to believe in whatever the feck they like, but as soon as someone thinks that right allows them to compel someone else to do something, then they lose the that right.

As one wag put it, if one person has an imaginary friend, they are a bit odd. If everybody has the same one, it's religion.

But back the the original point, if one considers the vastness of time before and after one's own birth, look at the wonder there is to cherish the time you have. Look at the choice you have to either make the world a better place by being kind to all, not because of an eternal reward or the threat of hellfire, but because it's just a good thing to do, or just be a dick and always been known for that.

I think making that choice, not to be good, but to do good with the time you have, is the most human thing you can do because it contributes to something larger than one's self - the species well being as a whole, with the small resource you have: your time.

Or something, I dunno.

What?

smacl

one world order wrote: »

Simply ceasing to exist means one has to deny the spiritual realm exists. That means denying the existence of angels, demons, people being possessed resulting in abnormal behaviour, many of the new age spiritual practices that involve spiritual guides that are really demons, a person's eternal soul, and a day of judgement for everyone. It's a lot of denying. I don't think there is any atheist that truly believes there is no creator.

And what divine power do you posses that you claim to know what every atheist does or does not believe? I rather doubt that anyone can categorically state that they know what anyone believes other than themselves. Some seem to struggle even with that

Subjectively, I know you're wrong as I personally have never believed in the existence of a creator. Objectively you are also most probably wrong given that ~80% of the people on this poll believe death is final which wouldn't tally with your creationist stance. Or perhaps you believe that I'm lying and they're all lying too?

Hotblack Desiato

one world order wrote: »

Simply ceasing to exist means one has to deny the spiritual realm exists. That means denying the existence of angels, demons, people being possessed resulting in abnormal behaviour, many of the new age spiritual practices that involve spiritual guides that are really demons, a person's eternal soul, and a day of judgement for everyone.

All of that stuff has never been demonstrated to be anything other than complete and utter nonsense.

I don't think there is any atheist that truly believes there is no creator.

You can think what you want, but you'd be wrong.

[Deleted User]

I don't think life is as linear as we perceive it. The past exists in the past in the same sense that the future exists in the future. Take the linearity out of it and our whole life exists all in the same instance. Not even an instance because even that has a linear meaning. It just all is. So make the most of it because its all you'll ever have.

Pherekydes

one world order wrote: »

Simply ceasing to exist means one has to deny the spiritual realm exists. That means denying the existence of angels, demons...

What about the Tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, the Bogeyman?

I don't think there is any atheist that truly believes there is no creator.

Yes there is, just one. :pac:

auspicious

Lorddrakul wrote: »

Therefore, if consciousness cannot be separated from the brain, then it makes the idea of a soul, spirit, whatever, very difficult.

All we know thus far, he said, indicates that energy on its own, without physical structure, will dissipate. Therefore, if the soul can exist independently of the body, it does so in a manner not just completely unknown, but also completely unevidenced - as in, no hint or indication what or which might be at play.

We can't argue against the fact that brain deterioration changes one's perception of reality. The brain is the seat of perceptual experience after all albeit a subjective impression on a very narrow 'bandwidth', specialised to each species; we will never know what it is to see like an eagle or smell like a dog.
We know our eyes only see a fraction of the information available so we see far far less than we think we do. Our senses are completely fooled into believing a material reality exists. Science has shown us an atom is empty space and in fact a wave until interacted with.
The consciousness we know is only of this reality and the brain just the tool for experience. Anything beyond I agree is unknowable until super A.I. comes along perhaps.

[quote="Lorddrakul;115039747"

But back the the original point, if one considers the vastness of time before and after one's own birth, look at the wonder there is to cherish the time you have. Look at the choice you have to either make the world a better place by being kind to all, not because of an eternal reward or the threat of hellfire, but because it's just a good thing to do, or just be a dick and always been known for that.

I think making that choice, not to be good, but to do good with the time you have, is the most human thing you can do because it contributes to something larger than one's self - the species well being as a whole, with the small resource you have: your time.
[/quote]

A compelling argument to go vegan if ever I heard one.

auspicious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkCXjRn2NA

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/measurement.html

saabsaab

Interesting article below re consciousness after death..

'2016 study published in the Canadian Journal of Biological Sciences, doctors recounted shutting off life support for four terminally ill patients, only to have one of the patients continue emitting delta wave bursts—the measurable electrical activity in the brain we normally experience during deep sleep—for more than 10 minutes after the patient had been pronounced dead; no pupil dilation, no pulse, no heartbeat. The authors were at a loss for a physiological explanation.Newsweek subscription offers >
Related Stories

Parnia's research has shown that people who survive medical death frequently report experiences that share similar themes: bright lights; benevolent guiding figures; relief from physical pain and a deeply felt sensation of peace. Because those experiences are subjective, it's possible to chalk them up to hallucinations. Where that explanation fails, though, is among the patients who have died on an operating table or crash cart and reported watching—from a corner of the room, from above—as doctors tried to save them, accounts subsequently verified by the (very perplexed) doctors themselves.
How these patients were able to describe objective events that took place while they were dead, we're not exactly sure, just as we're not exactly sure why certain parts of us appear to withstand death even as it takes hold of everything else. But it does seem to suggest that when our brains and bodies die, our consciousness may not, or at least not right away.
"I don't mean that people have their eyes open or that their brain's working after they die," Parnia said. "That petrifies people. I'm saying we have a consciousness that makes up who we are—our selves, thoughts, feelings, emotions—and that entity, it seems, does not become annihilated just because we've crossed the threshold of death; it appears to keep functioning and not dissipate. How long it lingers, we can't say."

one world order

smacl wrote: »

And what divine power do you posses that you claim to know what every atheist does or does not believe? I rather doubt that anyone can categorically state that they know what anyone believes other than themselves. Some seem to struggle even with that

Subjectively, I know you're wrong as I personally have never believed in the existence of a creator. Objectively you are also most probably wrong given that ~80% of the people on this poll believe death is final which wouldn't tally with your creationist stance. Or perhaps you believe that I'm lying and they're all lying too?

Reading some of your previous posts, you have a lot of hostility towards God. The reason most atheists are so hostile is because deep down they know God is real, and trying to suppress God's existence makes them angry when someone talks about God. People that try to suppress God usually resort to mocking and name calling to make God a joke and so overcome that internal conflict.

I believe this world is under the control of the Devil, trying to deceive as many people as possible. I know God is personal, he will reward those that seek him. We as humans are a sinful people, and it's that sinful nature that separates us from God as he is holy. But God did do something for us for all those sins we have done, and it's that act of love, which comes under the most attack through films, cartoons, media, music and the false indoctrination been pushed in the education system.

smacl

one world order wrote: »

Reading some of your previous posts, you have a lot of hostility towards God. The reason most atheists are so hostile is because deep down they know God is real, and trying to suppress God's existence makes them angry when someone talks about God. People that try to suppress God usually resort to mocking and name calling to make God a joke and so overcome that internal conflict.

Not so, I have no more hostility towards your God than I do Professor Dumbledore in Harry Potter, as I understand both to be entirely fictitious. Nor for that matter do I have any problems whatsoever in people professing a belief in that God and regularly defend people's rights to hold such a belief. I reserve my hostility towards the undue influence of any church within our society who would seek to inflict their belief system on others.

I believe this world is under the control of the Devil, trying to deceive as many people as possible. I know God is personal, he will reward those that seek him. We as humans are a sinful people, and it's that sinful nature that separates us from God as he is holy. But God did do something for us for all those sins we have done, and it's that act of love, which comes under the most attack through films, cartoons, media, music and the false indoctrination been pushed in the education system.

Good for you. I believe the above is a load of balderdash, but as above, we're all entitled to our beliefs no matter how utterly bizarre they may appear to others.

Munsterman12

We are reborn as ghosts on the moon.

nozzferrahhtoo

one world order wrote: »

Simply ceasing to exist means one has to deny the spiritual realm exists. That means denying the existence of angels, demons, people being possessed resulting in abnormal behaviour, many of the new age spiritual practices that involve spiritual guides that are really demons, a person's eternal soul, and a day of judgement for everyone. It's a lot of denying.

It's not all that much denial at all really given you have offered zero reason to think any of the above exists. Claiming our non-belief in them is "denial" therefore is like offering me an entirely empty plate and later claiming I "refused" peas and carrots.

one world order wrote: »

I don't think there is any atheist that truly believes there is no creator.

Funny that, we have another theists in the last few weeks going around insisting on telling all the atheists here what they actually believe and think rather than ever stopping to ask THEM what they believe or think. In fact much like your subsequent claim that atheists deep down know god is real, the user in question in fact started a whole thread claiming exactly that too.

I wonder if you both went to the same school of presuppositional evangelism as Radio DJ Matt Slick.

nozzferrahhtoo

saabsaab wrote: »

Interesting article below re consciousness after death..

It's not though is it? It was an article about minor activity continuing in a short temporary unexplained manner after MEDICAL death was called. (Medical death and actual death being somewhat different).

saabsaab wrote: »

Parnia's research has shown that people who survive medical death

saabsaab wrote: »

reported watching—from a corner of the room, from above—as doctors tried to save them, accounts subsequently verified by the (very perplexed) doctors themselves.

And Parnia went on to construct double blind controlled experiments to try and verify that the patients in question actually were viewing the room from the reported locations.

Thus far, to my knowledge, those experiments have 100% failed to verify a single case of it actually happening. And this is from Parnia who is biased TOWARDS not away from verifying life after death.

one world order

smacl wrote: »

Not so, I have no more hostility towards your God than I do Professor Dumbledore in Harry Potter, as I understand both to be entirely fictitious. Nor for that matter do I have any problems whatsoever in people professing a belief in that God and regularly defend people's rights to hold such a belief. I reserve my hostility towards the undue influence of any church within our society who would seek to inflict their belief system on others.

What is it about Jesus Christ that you want gone from society? You see it in so many areas of this world, the Muslims deny Jesus died on the cross, new age spiritual practices don't talk about the problem of sin or Jesus, moderators on boards ban anyone that talks about the truth, so many people following the world are so hostile to reading the bible. There is something about Jesus Christ that those not in the truth do not want to be told. Why is that?

saabsaab

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

It's not though is it? It was an article about minor activity continuing in a short temporary unexplained manner after MEDICAL death was called. (Medical death and actual death being somewhat different).

And Parnia went on to construct double blind controlled experiments to try and verify that the patients in question actually were viewing the room from the reported locations.

Thus far, to my knowledge, those experiments have 100% failed to verify a single case of it actually happening. And this is from Parnia who is biased TOWARDS not away from verifying life after death.

Those studies as far as I can make out aren't finished. The visual tests were unsuccessful so far in a very small number but an audio hit was confirmed.

Bannasidhe

one world order wrote: »

What is it about Jesus Christ that you want gone from society? You see it in so many areas of this world, the Muslims deny Jesus died on the cross, new age spiritual practices don't talk about the problem of sin or Jesus, moderators on boards ban anyone that talks about the truth, so many people following the world are so hostile to reading the bible. There is something about Jesus Christ that those not in the truth do not want to be told. Why is that?

There is more to religion than Jesus, more alleged gods than Jehovah, so ask yourself if you want Allah or Kali or Thor 'in your life' in such a way as Jesus is inserted into Irish people's lives and you will be able to answer your own question.

For an athiest Jesus is no more or less relevant than Allah or Kali or Thor. Just another deity other people believe in.

And as we live in a Republic we should be able to live our lives utterly free from each and every diety should we wish.

smacl

one world order wrote: »

What is it about Jesus Christ that you want gone from society? You see it in so many areas of this world, the Muslims deny Jesus died on the cross, new age spiritual practices don't talk about the problem of sin or Jesus, moderators on boards ban anyone that talks about the truth, so many people following the world are so hostile to reading the bible. There is something about Jesus Christ that those not in the truth do not want to be told. Why is that?

You're on an atheist forum here where most people don't believe any stories from the bible. I would recommend that if you want to discuss Christianity with like minded folk that you'd be better on the Christianity forum. If you're here to preach, you're most likely going to have a hard time of it as you're looking for others to treat your beliefs with respect while trampling over theirs. This is something most atheists are all too used to and tend to treat with derision. I often wonder what motivates a proselytising Christian to do this. Honestly, it comes across as looking for brownie points with your deity in the hope of an easier entrance into the pearly gates. One would hope an omniscient deity would see through this ruse.

saabsaab

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is more to religion than Jesus, more alleged gods than Jehovah, so ask yourself if you want Allah or Kali or Thor 'in your life' in such a way as Jesus is inserted into Irish people's lives and you will be able to answer your own question.

For an athiest Jesus is no more or less relevant than Allah or Kali or Thor. Just another deity other people believe in.

And as we live in a Republic we should be able to live our lives utterly free from each and every diety should we wish.

I guess that there are many names for a supreme being as there are messengers like Jesus/Mohammed/Budda

one world order

smacl wrote: »

You're on an atheist forum here where most people don't believe any stories from the bible. I would recommend that if you want to discuss Christianity with like minded folk that you'd be better on the Christianity forum. If you're here to preach, you're most likely going to have a hard time of it as you're looking for others to treat your beliefs with respect while trampling over theirs. This is something most atheists are all too used to and tend to treat with derision. I often wonder what motivates a proselytising Christian to do this. Honestly, it comes across as looking for brownie points with your deity in the hope of an easier entrance into the pearly gates. One would hope an omniscient deity would see through this ruse.

You want Jesus gone from society but if I ask why, you tell me to go to the Christianity forum. Surly you can come up with a reason, and no I am not looking for brownie points from God, the salvation of my soul is already secured.

smacl

one world order wrote: »

You want Jesus gone from society but if I ask why, you tell me to go to the Christianity forum. Surly you can come up with a reason, and no I am not looking for brownie points from God, the salvation of my soul is already secured.

You might point out where I said I want Jesus out of society. What I would like is for religious zealots of all religions to stop trying to inflict their dubious beliefs on others. How would you feel for example if the state spent your taxes trying to pressure your children into becoming Muslim?

Bannasidhe

saabsaab wrote: »

I guess that there are many names for a supreme being as there are messengers like Jesus/Mohammed/Budda

And a guess is all you have... btw, you might want to 'brush up' (I believe that is the current term) on Siddhartha Gautama's view on the existence of this alleged 'supreme being' before lumping him in with Jesus and Mohammad, then your guess may be better informed.

one world order

smacl wrote: »

You might point out where I said I want Jesus out of society. What I would like is for religious zealots of all religions to stop trying to inflict their dubious beliefs on others. How would you feel for example if the state spent your taxes trying to pressure your children into becoming Muslim?

The church is the body of Christ. It's a common theme with atheists. They say they're tolerant, their diverse but when it comes to the teaching of the gospel, they are angry and hateful. It shows the spirit that operates in most people today is an anti Christ spirit. They hate God, they hate Christ and they hate the word of God. You don't want to hear about God because you know your own actions condemn you and you are on your way to hell so you ignore the truth.

Look around you, we are living in the last days that the bible warned us about. People parading around their sin, sleeping around and thinking that's right. So many people nowadays are self centered, lovers of money, proud, ungrateful, unreligious, full of lust and hating what is good. They don't want to hear about God as it highlights something about one self they know is wrong.

[Deleted User]

one world order wrote: »

The church is the body of Christ. It's a common theme with atheists. They say they're tolerant, their diverse but when it comes to the teaching of the gospel, they are angry and hateful. It shows the spirit that operates in most people today is an anti Christ spirit. They hate God, they hate Christ and they hate the word of God. You don't want to hear about God because you know your own actions condemn you and you are on your way to hell so you ignore the truth.

Look around you, we are living in the last days that the bible warned us about. People parading around their sin, sleeping around and thinking that's right. So many people nowadays are self centered, lovers of money, proud, ungrateful, unreligious, full of lust and hating what is good. They don't want to hear about God as it highlights something about one self they know is wrong.

What does it say about a person who constantly calls for people to endanger the lives of others, fawns over people in power who have committed multiple sins by their own religious standards and actually worse by most people's standards, while quoting know conspiracy theorists?

smacl

one world order wrote: »

The church is the body of Christ. It's a common theme with atheists. They say they're tolerant, their diverse but when it comes to the teaching of the gospel, they are angry and hateful. It shows the spirit that operates in most people today is an anti Christ spirit. They hate God, they hate Christ and they hate the word of God. You don't want to hear about God because you know your own actions condemn you and you are on your way to hell so you ignore the truth.

Look around you, we are living in the last days that the bible warned us about. People parading around their sin, sleeping around and thinking that's right. So many people nowadays are self centered, lovers of money, proud, ungrateful, unreligious, full of lust and hating what is good. They don't want to hear about God as it highlights something about one self they know is wrong.

As I've already said, I no more hate your god than I hate Odin or Allah or Homer Simpson. I consider them all equally fictitious and not worth hating. You on the other hand show a distinct intolerance for other people's right to hold beliefs that run contrary to your own. That is something I do have a problem with as does society at large. The anger you see with atheists is not with your religion it is with your intolerance, aggressive zeal and utter disrespect for the beliefs of others.

pauldla

Ah, the 'Why do you hate Jesus' argument...

nozzferrahhtoo

saabsaab wrote: »

Those studies as far as I can make out aren't finished. The visual tests were unsuccessful so far in a very small number but an audio hit was confirmed.

That is why I said "thus far". Parnia and a few others have been doing this work for a very long time. I first heard of the studies quite some years ago. And thus far nothing of note has come from them.

The visual tests are the interesting one as it would require the patient be outside their body.

"Audio hits" however is more vague as hearing things in your surroundings while apparently unconscious is less indicative of the paranormal or the supernatural than it is of us simply not understanding the workings of the brain.

I think an error here many people make is to assume that if a patient is entirely unconscious that their brain is "off". That is a dangerous assumption. The brain can still be quite active on it's own without the person being conscious.

When sound hits the ear hairs the body will still translate that into electrical impulses. Those impulses will still travel to the brain. And at some level the brain will still process them. I know of no reason why the brain can not "hear" sound, and even lay down that sound as memory, without a conscious perceiver being on line at the time.

So while "Audio Hits" will be very interesting in terms of our understanding the brain and it's functionality.... it will be much less interesting in terms of subjects like consciousness existing outside the body, after the death of the brain, or the existence of an after life.