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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

magicbastarder

As the previous thread has gone over the 10k mark

old thread can be found here

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Wildly Boaring

^^^^ FF councilor sees no issue. Tries to make out that resurfacing a bumpy road can benefit pedestrians

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1316298238950027265

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Related point was the woman giving out because she cant park outside the Educate Together 'because of the new bike path' .....(note, it was never legal to park there in the first place!!).

The Educate Together schools had a 'first come first serve' admissions policy, not sure if they still have.....but a consequence is that you could be living in Tallaght and enrol your kid in Glasnevin Educate Together.

For me, there is a lot to be said for the notion that if you have a local school, then thats where your kid should go.

A lot of people dont do that. They want the primary school 6 miles away because somehow its 'better' than the local school, which is usually a euphemism for more middle class.

Most people in Dublin have a local school that is within 20 minute walk or 10 minute cycle - they just dont use them. This creates an inordinate amount of car traffic.

On a more positive note - I was in Na Fianna yesterday and couldnt believe the amount of bikes in Scoil Caitriona - Caroline Conroy is a big local champion of the bike and directly campaigned for a large number of sheffield stands in the school, and they are full to the brim with bikes.

I'm well sick of people complaining about school runs when it's actually down to them choosing to send the child half way across town.

mr spuckler

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm just curious about this statement.
What sentence/punishment do you think would be appropriate in such an incident?

This was a 68 year old woman driving home from mass. I'm not excusing her, but it doesn't seem to compare to drink driving, joy riding, boy racer type incidents which we here about all too often.

The article doesn't suggest any obvious unacceptable behaviour other than incompetency.

Again, not trying to be argumentative here but should every RTA result in a custodial sentence?

She killed someone through her behaviour. I'd rank that right at the top of the list of unacceptable behaviours.

Tombo2001

Related point was the woman giving out because she cant park outside the Educate Together 'because of the new bike path' .....(note, it was never legal to park there in the first place!!).

The Educate Together schools had a 'first come first serve' admissions policy, not sure if they still have.....but a consequence is that you could be living in Tallaght and enrol your kid in Glasnevin Educate Together.

For me, there is a lot to be said for the notion that if you have a local school, then thats where your kid should go.

A lot of people dont do that. They want the primary school 6 miles away because somehow its 'better' than the local school, which is usually a euphemism for more middle class.

Most people in Dublin have a local school that is within 20 minute walk or 10 minute cycle - they just dont use them. This creates an inordinate amount of car traffic.

On a more positive note - I was in Na Fianna yesterday and couldnt believe the amount of bikes in Scoil Caitriona - Caroline Conroy is a big local champion of the bike and directly campaigned for a large number of sheffield stands in the school, and they are full to the brim with bikes.

DoraDelite

magicbastarder wrote: »

you might have missed the part i got stuck into where a woman started giving out about cyclists using bus lanes, and was completely failing to understand that they're explicitly for cyclists too. and then when i screenshotted the actual bus/cycle symbol on the bus lane, insisted it referred to the cycle path beside it. and then she deleted her original comment so the rest vanished.

ah well, it helped pass an evening.

One of the funniest comments was the lad giving out about the right turn only lane at where the garda station used to be, claiming he didn't know it was there even though it's been in place for 20 odd years at least

Somehow that's credited to a cycle lane that doesn't exist yet :rolleyes:

CramCycle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Still though there are some nuggets that come up again and again:
- nothing against cycle paths, but just not there

NIMBYism, same types were against the LUAS that they all love now

- the really annoying one - if a driver brakes a red light they get a ticket while cyclists get away scot free (have been walking the kids to school for ten years, there is a hazardous traffic light where I have seen thousands and thousands of drivers break the lights, have complained to councillors, have complained to an garda.....not once has any driver been punished for it).

If I was so inclined, I am pretty sure I could break every light in my car on the drive to work and even , in the unlikely even I was pulled over, I'd be able to bluff my way out of a ticket. I could also chance it on my bike but there is a good chance that, unlike when I am in a car, I wouldn't be noticed and there is a higher chance I would get hit, also if I was pulled over, since there are not PP and its an easy FPN, I would imagine i have more chance of getting said fine if caught.

- cycle path was completely empty when I drove past

Often drive along the M50 at night, absolutely empty, it is disgraceful.

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

There was a discussion today and yesterday on a new cycle path on Griffith Avenue, and yes I was surprised that the majority seemed to be in favour.

you might have missed the part i got stuck into where a woman started giving out about cyclists using bus lanes, and was completely failing to understand that they're explicitly for cyclists too. and then when i screenshotted the actual bus/cycle symbol on the bus lane, insisted it referred to the cycle path beside it. and then she deleted her original comment so the rest vanished.

ah well, it helped pass an evening.

Tombo2001

magicbastarder wrote: »

i joined the drumcondra social facebook group on the premise of this post and it has been disappointingly/pleasingly positive re the griffith avenue cycle path. almost everyone is polite, and plenty of people quite positive about it. there are a few muppets, of course, but far fewer than you'd get commenting on your average newspaper article about cycling.

There was a discussion today and yesterday on a new cycle path on Griffith Avenue, and yes I was surprised that the majority seemed to be in favour.

Still though there are some nuggets that come up again and again:
- nothing against cycle paths, but just not there

- the really annoying one - if a driver brakes a red light they get a ticket while cyclists get away scot free (have been walking the kids to school for ten years, there is a hazardous traffic light where I have seen thousands and thousands of drivers break the lights, have complained to councillors, have complained to an garda.....not once has any driver been punished for it).

- cycle path was completely empty when I drove past

etc etc

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A new cycle lane has gone in on Griffith Avenue - the whingeing about it on the the local Drumcondra Social facebook page is off the charts. And its all the same type of punter in the 55-70 age bracket, or else portly young man who has just bought his first car.

i joined the drumcondra social facebook group on the premise of this post and it has been disappointingly/pleasingly positive re the griffith avenue cycle path. almost everyone is polite, and plenty of people quite positive about it. there are a few muppets, of course, but far fewer than you'd get commenting on your average newspaper article about cycling.

[Deleted User]

God newstalk love their anti-cycling rants don't they.

zell12

Voxpop on Budget
"turn Dublin into baristas and cycle lanes"
"motorist is being pushed off the road by the cyclist who pay nothing"
https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/henry-mckean-on-the-hard-shoulder/motorists-taxed-off-road-cyclists-want-turn-european-city-baristas-cyclists-budget2021-anger

velo.2010

Tell me how wrote: »

This was a 68 year old woman driving home from mass. I'm not excusing her, but it doesn't seem to compare to drink driving, joy riding, boy racer type incidents which we here about all too often.

It does compare!

None of those types of driver you mention set out to deliberately kill someone when they drive, just like that woman in this case. However, they all share the same thing in common — complete disregard for other road users.

Her statement...'I probably did not pull out far enough'... exemplifies a lack of awareness that cyclists are road users with equal access to our roads.

breezy1985

If you get put off the road do you have to go back and do your lessons and test again ?

Cause if not you should

Seth Brundle

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm just curious about this statement.
What sentence/punishment do you think would be appropriate in such an incident?

Why is a case involving a fatality held in a court that cannot impose a prison sentence or a fine greater than five grand?
Is it appropriate that after a brief period, the driver can resume their driving?
What is the point in a financial punishment? Did the court evaluate the driver's financial means to establish a suitable amount (noting that the maximum they can impose is five grand)?
Is the victim's life worth three grand?
The punishment for taking a life in this case shows that if you kill someone with a car, you can to a large extent, get away with it.

Tell me how wrote: »

This was a 68 year old woman driving home from mass. I'm not excusing her, but it doesn't seem to compare to drink driving, joy riding, boy racer type incidents which we here about all too often.

Should the drivers, age, gender or where she's driving from have any bearing on whether they should be punished for taking a life?

Tell me how wrote: »

The article doesn't suggest any obvious unacceptable behaviour other than incompetency.

eeh, careless driving is not incompetency!
She saw the vulnerable road user and yet did not perform the overtaking manouvre with any consideration or care. Nothing to do with competence.

Tell me how wrote: »

Again, not trying to be argumentative here but should every RTA result in a custodial sentence?

Surely it should be within the power of the court though to impose a custodial sentence. To have this trial in a court that cannot impose one surely belittles the life of the victim?

Almost every time I'm out on a bike someone will overtake me without due care. I've given up going to the garddai as it is to a large extent a waste of time. I'm also of th view that the courts don't see it with the seriousness that it deservers either.

eeeee

A 68 year old woman recklessly killed a mother of 2 entirely through her own fault.
There isn't a single mitigating factor.
She saw the other woman, and killed her with her car.
She should never, ever be allowed to drive again.
I don't think prison works, but I do think people should be punished for killing others.

Tell me how

Seth Brundle wrote: »

"I probably did not pull out far enough"
Woman fined €3,000 and disqualified from driving for careless driving causing the death of cyclist

This country is a complete joke!

I'm just curious about this statement.
What sentence/punishment do you think would be appropriate in such an incident?

This was a 68 year old woman driving home from mass. I'm not excusing her, but it doesn't seem to compare to drink driving, joy riding, boy racer type incidents which we here about all too often.

The article doesn't suggest any obvious unacceptable behaviour other than incompetency.

Again, not trying to be argumentative here but should every RTA result in a custodial sentence?

[Deleted User]

Woman's daughter summed it up pretty accurately in her statement

Seth Brundle

"I probably did not pull out far enough"
Woman fined €3,000 and disqualified from driving for careless driving causing the death of cyclist

This country is a complete joke!

eeeee

On the learner driver impatience. I was with my dad in the lorry one time, and we were going through Templmore at the time I think it was (had a kind of staggered/ zigzag road/ crossroads in the middle of the town in the 90's!), and a learner driver had stalled in the middle of the cross. We were about 3 or 4 vehicles back. The learner had flooded the engine, and couldn't get it going. The other cars behind them were beeping the shyte out of them and starting to shout at them.
The father got out of the lorry, sat into the car beside them, told them to ignore all the beeping, and calmly got them going again. He went back to the lorry in no hurry, prompting a flurry of beeping behind us, which the father replied with some sign language (!) and with a full load on we didn't take off the fastest either.

What the others thought beeping at the learner was going to achieve bar making the situation worse I don't know. Utterly pointless and needlessly aggressive behaviour. A little patience and understanding would have gotten them moving in half the time!

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

On a joking side of the situation, judging by the face of one of the lads, he won't dare start a fight with a cyclist in lycra for as long as he lives.

i now have this vision of you arriving home covered in blood, and your shocked partner asking what happened, and you deadpanning 'some asshole in an audi tried to left hook me but he won't be making that mistake again'.

CramCycle

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't think this counts as putting an animal out of it's misery but I used to pluck turkeys every Christmas when I was at school. I was quite good at it too. Seems I had a knack for killing turkeys and quickly plucking them (slower you are the harder it is)

Oddly to this day turkey is my favourite meat

Not sure of your experience but the tip I was always given was to grab them by the legs and turn them upside down ASAP and they instantly stop fighting. Its a lot more difficult to snap a turkeys neck then you would think (apparently), there is a certain knack to it. Thankfully I never had to do it but am assured of this by more experienced friends who sold turkeys when we were teenagers.

One of my first jobs out of college I worked for a company that done DNA tracing, went into the abattoir to collect samples and I felt beef was unlikely to be heavy in my diet going forward but oddly, didn't change a thing. I had worked in a butchers before but convinced myself it wasn't the same. In hindsight, it was no different just the volume was incredible.

[Deleted User]

Don't think this counts as putting an animal out of it's misery but I used to pluck turkeys every Christmas when I was at school. I was quite good at it too. Seems I had a knack for killing turkeys and quickly plucking them (slower you are the harder it is)

Oddly to this day turkey is my favourite meat

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

i wish i'd been trained. i had to put a bird out of its misery once and it went blackly slapstick. no dignity at all to it.

There is rarely any dignity. Got trained through work, a method of last resort if everything goes wrong, its not the worst with small animals. Regrettably this was with a deer on the Enniskerry road, hit by a car that drove off. Legs broke, bottom half of face ripped off and screaming (or attempting too, ore like a guttural choking noise) in pain. Two lads had stopped and were waving down traffic. We dragged it to the side, rang multiple vets, the gardai but couldn't get anyone who might have been able to help. In the end we made a judgement call as it was in agony and would have died anyway judging by the blood loss. One guy had a hammer in his van, I knocked it out and snapped its neck as quick as I could.

On a joking side of the situation, judging by the face of one of the lads, he won't dare start a fight with a cyclist in lycra for as long as he lives.

magicbastarder

breezy1985 wrote: »

Im not sure that there is anything quite like roads for bringing out an uncontrolled anger that many people would never display otherwise. Just look at L plate drivers they literally have a sign up saying sorry Im still learning and rather than leeway many drivers give them the same beeping, screaming, "must get past" attitude they give bikes

might be a hoary old chestnut, but a woman my wife knows was telling us yesterday that when she was learning years ago, the car cut out on her, and no matter what she tried she couldn't get it started again. lad behind her started beeping the horn and her dad said not to mind, focus on getting it started again but she couldn't, so they put the hazards on.
the chap behind was having none of it and basically just leant on the horn, until her dad walked back to yer man's car, knocked on his window, and said 'look, we're having trouble getting the car started so how about you go up and fix it, and while you're trying, i'll sit in your car leaning on the horn at you like the **** you are' and that seemed to deal nicely with the situation.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i wish i'd been trained. i had to put a bird out of its misery once and it went blackly slapstick. no dignity at all to it.

i clearly jinxed myself here because i've just had to put a frog out of its misery after hitting it with the lawnmower.

Wildly Boaring

breezy1985 wrote: »

Im not sure that there is anything quite like roads for bringing out an uncontrolled anger that many people would never display otherwise. Just look at L plate drivers they literally have a sign up saying sorry Im still learning and rather than leeway many drivers give them the same beeping, screaming, "must get past" attitude they give bikes

Was at the scene of a crash Friday.
Was directing a few cars. A learner stalled in traffic. The dick behind lifted him out of it and started revving right up behind him.

Dickheads window was open. He got some choice words from me and another boy present.

Really, loosing your cool with a learner. Moronic

breezy1985

CramCycle wrote: »

True, if I was to pass comment in some places about hitting a cyclist and reversing, just to be sure, it would get a laugh. If I mentioned taking out a club hammer and bludgeoning someone to death (or near it), while the effect would most likely be the same, it never gets the same laugh. It is odd that it really depends on how you kill someone as to whether its funny or not. Aside from this, if it went to court, one might get me DQd from driving and maybe a fine. The other could see me serve 20years and take everything from me socially.

Having sadly to relieve an animal once in not to dissimilar circumstances (not running it over, had to use stun and cervical dislocation, for which I am trained), I still have visions of it to this day and don't sleep well on occasion, I do wonder how some of these people sleep at night.

I know the response will be well they don't mean it, but the truth is, based on the behaviour of a minority on the roads, I have to assume, some people do mean it.

Im not sure that there is anything quite like roads for bringing out an uncontrolled anger that many people would never display otherwise. Just look at L plate drivers they literally have a sign up saying sorry Im still learning and rather than leeway many drivers give them the same beeping, screaming, "must get past" attitude they give bikes

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

had to use stun and cervical dislocation, for which I am trained

i wish i'd been trained. i had to put a bird out of its misery once and it went blackly slapstick. no dignity at all to it.

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya it's weird how ok it is to joke about running people over. I bet if he said I hate X and hope X gets cancer everyone would be upset with him but death by car is ok

True, if I was to pass comment in some places about hitting a cyclist and reversing, just to be sure, it would get a laugh. If I mentioned taking out a club hammer and bludgeoning someone to death (or near it), while the effect would most likely be the same, it never gets the same laugh. It is odd that it really depends on how you kill someone as to whether its funny or not. Aside from this, if it went to court, one might get me DQd from driving and maybe a fine. The other could see me serve 20years and take everything from me socially.

Having sadly to relieve an animal once in not to dissimilar circumstances (not running it over, had to use stun and cervical dislocation, for which I am trained), I still have visions of it to this day and don't sleep well on occasion, I do wonder how some of these people sleep at night.

I know the response will be well they don't mean it, but the truth is, based on the behaviour of a minority on the roads, I have to assume, some people do mean it.