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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Beasty

...no, not on September the 3rd (although for all I know they might have), it's the 3rd thread...
1st thread
2nd thread
3rd thread

Threadbans carry over

Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

Mod:

Can we not have the roundabout question of putting teachers on PUP every 10 pages or so please.

You know the answer to the question so why bother asking it.

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daheff

From what I've heard Covid is spreading because of gatherings of people at homes, not from kids mixing in schools.

So for if that's the problem, them make people stay at home and leave the kids in schools as a first step. If virus numbers still don't drop then we can assume that it's from schools and then close them too.

Scoondal

Yes, teachers can work as supermarket staff have worked since March. When did shoppers start wearing face masks ?

Higgins5473

Beasty wrote: »

...no, not on September the 3rd (although for all I know they might have), it's the 3rd thread...
1st thread
2nd thread
3rd thread

Threadbans carry over

Shouldn't need to say this, but unfortunately too many of you seem to ignore a very basic principle when posting - remain civil to each other, otherwise you will have posting privileges removed

Is your thread title a very poor attempt at wit or humour? Hard to understand what else it could be.

This is a very serious debate on schools and the spread of a deadly virus.

Smacruairi

Scoondal wrote: »

Yes, teachers can work as supermarket staff have worked since March. When did shoppers start wearing face masks ?

Grand, reduced numbers in schools. Perfect.

Always number 1

My 6 year old will be devastated if the schools close again. He's always been a happy-go-lucky little fella and while he wasn't exactly Mr Diligent when it came to homeschooling* he didnt let the lockdown get to him. He just got on with it and accepted it for what it was but it was only when he went back to school and had a spring in his step that we realised it had been missing.

On the occasions we've had no choice but to bring him to a shop he keeps his distance, he sanitises everywhere he goes and puts his little face mask on him on the bus because he knows he needs to do this to keep people like his grandparents safe. I can cope with him falling behind on some of the academic stuff but I dont want his mental health to suffer because some plebs cant follow simple instructions

*In fairness to him, as we were both working from home we didnt exactly push it too much

Smacruairi

daheff wrote: »

From what I've heard Covid is spreading because of gatherings of people at homes, not from kids mixing in schools.

So for if that's the problem, them make people stay at home and leave the kids in schools as a first step. If virus numbers still don't drop then we can assume that it's from schools and then close them too.

But there's been a Dublin lockdown for 2 weeks with households limited to one extra home.. So would you not say we have already tried your approach? And we don't need to close schools, just reduce numbers in and out.

jrosen

Anywhere where people are mixing will increase the chance of spread. It was a given that once schools opened back up we would see increases. But I think that was the point of having social resections. The hope that people would still hand wash/social distance/limit their contacts in order to keep numbers lower.

I dont think that has happened. I personally know of people who have gone on with their lives as usual. Family visiting grandparents weekly, expecting babysitting. Communion parties, birthday parties, sleep overs, even a student going on a school trip while their parent awaited a test result. Unfortunately there have been large cohorts of society who have ignored the guidelines and we will all pay for it.

Jinglejangle69

Smacruairi wrote: »

But there's been a Dublin lockdown for 2 weeks with households limited to one extra home.. So would you not say we have already tried your approach? And we don't need to close schools, just reduce numbers in and out.

Cases aren't increasing amymore in Dublin since level 3 was introduced 2 weeks ago even though schools still open.

What does that tell you?

Quantum Erasure

Is this like "no food" pubs opening in August....?

Smacruairi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Cases aren't increasing amymore in Dublin since level 3 was introduced 2 weeks ago even though schools still open.

What does that tell you?

What does that picture tell you? And nphet are also saying things are getting worse. Like am I meant to ignore govt advice here? If starts to spike just as schools started back, ie last week of August like. Can't be a coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I thought it would be far far worse so I'm delighted it's not, but there is a link surely.

...Ghost...

Smacruairi wrote: »

What does that picture tell you? And nphet are also saying things are getting worse. Like am I meant to ignore govt advice here? If starts to spike just as schools started back, ie last week of August like. Can't be a coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I thought it would be far far worse so I'm delighted it's not, but there is a link surely.

Tinfoil hats are a great defense against facts. Some people will have us believe children are immune and teachers live in a different spacetime continuum to the rest of us.

Immortal Starlight

Can I ask what is everyone’s opinion on letting a secondary school student go back to a school after the weekend where a covid case has been diagnosed. The case is not in the students year so they are expected to be present at school. What would you do if it was your decision to make?

The_Brood

jrosen wrote: »

Anywhere where people are mixing will increase the chance of spread. It was a given that once schools opened back up we would see increases. But I think that was the point of having social resections. The hope that people would still hand wash/social distance/limit their contacts in order to keep numbers lower.

I dont think that has happened. I personally know of people who have gone on with their lives as usual. Family visiting grandparents weekly, expecting babysitting. Communion parties, birthday parties, sleep overs, even a student going on a school trip while their parent awaited a test result. Unfortunately there have been large cohorts of society who have ignored the guidelines and we will all pay for it.

I mean this may be true, but that was always going to happen 100%. If anyone thought that near the totality of the Irish population would follow the rules (as would have been required to make the measures work) that is embarrassing - but for the government to gamble (and lose) our collective futures and well-being is criminal and there need to be consequences for this stupidity.

You can't hope for a China-style lockdown without having heavy enforcement in place. You need guardai, military, everyone armed and forcing people to comply. That is how you make an enforced lockdown work. It is criminally stupid to expect that pamphlets and twitter posts will somehow make everyone comply. The problem is not that the majority of people don't know or don't care. It's that for the significant minority that don't, absolutely nothing short of arrests - and more brutal methods - will get them to comply.

Don't like it? The alternative to all that is Sweden/Belarus. Let Covid take its course, but do not ruin society and people's futures. What happens happens and that's that. At least give some a chance.

Yet the government has decided on neither. It will ruin our lives and our future, but it will not enforce the severity of measures needed to make sure everyone complies and the virus is successfully contained.

This is simple common sense and they have failed at it. Criminal.

Oranage2

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

Can I ask what is everyone’s opinion on letting a secondary school student go back to a school after the weekend where a covid case has been diagnosed. The case is not in the students year so they are expected to be present at school. What would you do if it was your decision to make?

Russian roulette, it might be fine this time but eventually it won't be. The tracking is slow due to limitations and you don't know which parents are sending their kids in with what condition.

As for your situation, you've no choice really, the law says he/she should go, best you can do is tell them to wear a Mask and social distance whenever they can

SusanC10

I had thought that if the Country got to the point where Level 5 was needed that the situation would warrant a closure of schools.

What is going to happen now ?
Will they keep them open as they are right now?

Icyseanfitz

SusanC10 wrote: »

I had thought that if the Country got to the point where Level 5 was needed that the situation would warrant a closure of schools.

What is going to happen now ?
Will they keep them open as they are right now?

Who knows what these idiots will do at this stage

Love2love

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

Can I ask what is everyone’s opinion on letting a secondary school student go back to a school after the weekend where a covid case has been diagnosed. The case is not in the students year so they are expected to be present at school. What would you do if it was your decision to make?

There was a case identified in my son’s school (secondary) and he was identified as a close contact along with 10 others. All close contacts came back as negative thankfully and they’ll be able to return after their 14 days this Friday. They could still develop symptoms up to then but the school have been marvellous in dealing with it.

Got the call from my daughters school last night (primary) and although not on her pod - HSE decided to close the entire class for 2 weeks and they’ve to be tested on day 7. Another class is also closed so I’m assuming siblings. Apparently 8 members of the staffing team are also affected. The reaction of both the school and the HSE have been great and instilled more confidence in me heading into the winter.

SusanC10

Love2love wrote: »

There was a case identified in my son’s school (secondary) and he was identified as a close contact along with 10 others. All close contacts came back as negative thankfully and they’ll be able to return after their 14 days this Friday. They could still develop symptoms up to then but the school have been marvellous in dealing with it.

Got the call from my daughters school last night (primary) and although not on her pod - HSE decided to close the entire class for 2 weeks and they’ve to be tested on day 7. Another class is also closed so I’m assuming siblings. Apparently 8 members of the staffing team are also affected. The reaction of both the school and the HSE have been great and instilled more confidence in me heading into the winter.

The HSE/Public Health response to cases in schools seems to vary by location.
Do you mind me asking which HSE area you are in ?

wirelessdude01

Love2love wrote: »

There was a case identified in my son’s school (secondary) and he was identified as a close contact along with 10 others. All close contacts came back as negative thankfully and they’ll be able to return after their 14 days this Friday. They could still develop symptoms up to then but the school have been marvellous in dealing with it.

Got the call from my daughters school last night (primary) and although not on her pod - HSE decided to close the entire class for 2 weeks and they’ve to be tested on day 7. Another class is also closed so I’m assuming siblings. Apparently 8 members of the staffing team are also affected. The reaction of both the school and the HSE have been great and instilled more confidence in me heading into the winter.

Also how the hell can 8 members of staff be impacted by juat two siblings at primaryl level?

irishblessing

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

Can I ask what is everyone’s opinion on letting a secondary school student go back to a school after the weekend where a covid case has been diagnosed. The case is not in the students year so they are expected to be present at school. What would you do if it was your decision to make?

We have decided that if there's a case in our kids' school, we are pulling them out. We are in a global pandemic in which the government and DES have spectacularly let down our teachers and students and families by not providing a national plan b - a hybrid remote learning plan with options.

So if we pull our kids because we have made the decision that their health and safety and that of ours is the priority then we are entitled to do that and I don't give a shít what anyone, especially the useless education heads have to say about it. Report to Tulsa all they like. They have a huge backlog for homeschool applications anyway. We won't have consequences and our kids won't be removed from our home so who cares. Just think about it, what would actually happen-nothing. Imagine the headlines: "Tulsa recommends sanctions and attempts to interfere in loving family because they chose to protect their children among positive cases of COVID in their school...." :pac::pac::pac:

On a related note, I have begun to see lots of comments on my social media feeds from p'd off Irish families because there are no remote learning plans in the face of at risk students & families, illness, quarantines, and closures. One said that their school was closed down and no backup plan in place. Parents have copped on hugely now. And if there's a level 5 lockdown but schools remain open where kids "10 and older contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do (Mike Ryan, WHO & CDC)" then it's really going to hit the fan. The government thought that their not so brilliant optics of a bs plan to ram all the students back in school without earlier, better, safer plans with a plan b back up will actually be their downfall. It was easy to see this all coming. Wtf is their excuse.

Love2love

East Coast ARea Dublin (ECAD) I have been contacted from HSE in Cork to advise though so I assumed it was a whole Ireland approach type of thing

Love2love

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Also how the hell can 8 members of staff be impacted by juat two siblings at primaryl level?

2 teachers, 2 SNAs and learning and remedial support classes. I questioned the same myself but naturally they couldn’t give me more detail.

daheff

Smacruairi wrote: »

But there's been a Dublin lockdown for 2 weeks with households limited to one extra home.. So would you not say we have already tried your approach? And we don't need to close schools, just reduce numbers in and out.

level 5 has no home visits....so no we haven't tried that approach yet.

in any case, people seem to be wantonly ignoring that restriction.

Icyseanfitz

I wonder is plan b in motion if schools do get shut...... Oh yeah they didn't make one.

hello2020

irishblessing wrote: »

We have decided that if there's a case in our kids' school, we are pulling them out. We are in a global pandemic in which the government and DES have spectacularly let down our teachers and students and families by not providing a national plan b - a hybrid remote learning plan with options.

So if we pull our kids because we have made the decision that their health and safety and that of ours is the priority then we are entitled to do that and I don't give a shít what anyone, especially the useless education heads have to say about it. Report to Tulsa all they like. They have a huge backlog for homeschool applications anyway. We won't have consequences and our kids won't be removed from our home so who cares. Just think about it, what would actually happen-nothing. Imagine the headlines: "Tulsa recommends sanctions and attempts to interfere in loving family because they chose to protect their children among positive cases of COVID in their school...." :pac::pac::pac:

On a related note, I have begun to see lots of comments on my social media feeds from p'd off Irish families because there are no remote learning plans in the face of at risk students & families, illness, quarantines, and closures. One said that their school was closed down and no backup plan in place. Parents have copped on hugely now. And if there's a level 5 lockdown but schools remain open where kids "10 and older contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do (Mike Ryan, WHO & CDC)" then it's really going to hit the fan. The government thought that their not so brilliant optics of a bs plan to ram all the students back in school without earlier, better, safer plans with a plan b back up will actually be their downfall. It was easy to see this all coming. Wtf is their excuse.

same with us..can not justify myself to put kids in danger while adults are working from home and taking all sorts of precautions..

i have no answer for my kids when they innocently ask, why I am wearing a mask when dropping them to school while they are running around with kids from different households with no masks on, sharing washrooms, classroom..

irishblessing

hello2020 wrote: »

same with us..can not justify myself to put kids in danger while adults are working from home and taking all sorts of precautions..

i have no answer for my kids when they innocently ask, why I am wearing a mask when dropping them to school while they are running around with kids from different households with no masks on, sharing washrooms, classroom..

My kids are also part of a relatively small group of children going in with masks every day. Mine also asked why others aren't wearing masks. I told them that very smart leaders of other major health groups have looked at the evidence and it shows that children around your age should wear them in crowded situations that you're in for a long time. Unfortunately our health service in Ireland is choosing to ignore these recommendations and only advises from age 13. I told them we their parents have decided to take those studies on board and are going with the safest option. We said maybe other parents only heard about what the HSE recommends and some don't believe it's a serious virus... but we have to do what we believe is best for you and this is our decision.

They get it and they feel quite happy and protected and loved which I'm happy enough with. They have both said no one gives them stick for it either, another bonus. Forgot to add but one of my kids sort of explained it to another non-mask wearing child who asked and that child told their parent they want to wear a mask and now they do too! Others are either incurious or just accepting.

It just seems ridiculous though that we have to explain this discrepancy they all notice.

JDD

I was having a chat with my husband about this last night.

My gut feeling is that we will not go to Level 5 this evening, or indeed this week.

The government may raise Dublin & Donegal to Level 4 and the rest of the country to Level 3, but that might be difficult to justify now that the Level 3.75 in Dublin appears to be working (infections in Dublin seem to be dropping).

So perhaps they will raise the whole country to Level 4. The only drawback from this is that there is a level of economic pain with Level 4, and if it doesn't work we will have to go to Level 5 anyway, thus prolonging and increasing the economic pain. The timing of it would also be an issue. My view is that the government are going to bring in a complete lockdown of a period of four weeks at some stage before Christmas - so that there is breathing room in Christmas week to have celebrations and house gatherings. The infections will inevitably shoot up over Christmas week, but if we have a strict lockdown for the four weeks preceding it, we should have enough hospital capacity to cope over January.

The issue for the schools is complex. So if we do have a strict four week lockdown and keep the schools open, it will become very very obvious if schools are significantly assisting the spread. If we get two weeks in, and infections are still shooting skywards, I can't see how they will have any option but to close to schools.

And if they do close the schools, they will be admitting that fully open schools significantly assist in spreading the virus. Once that is clear, it will become very difficult to justify reopening the schools at Levels 1-4.

Then where are we? Back to the idea of half-open schools (and presumably closed creches and after-schools/childminders) with half home-schooling. I'm sure some economic boffins smarter than me can work out the severe economic knock on effects of 600,000 workers, who are also parents, having to work part time for the next...what...six months? A year?

I don't think it was smart to keep schools open in the Level 5 category. Level 5 was always going to be a short period of time. Better to close the schools and say that that it was the overall lockdown that worked, than keep the schools open and have to close them if it turns out that they were the breeding grounds after all.

SusanC10

Our 5th Class daughter wears a mask at school. There are 2 others in the class of 26 kids wearing one too.

We explained why to her before schools opened and also told her that she may be alone in wearing one. She gets it.

SusanC10

I am wondering if it would be best to do a short, sharp shock of Level 5 for 4 weeks with schools closed and see how that goes.

JDD

SusanC10 wrote: »

Our 5th Class daughter wears a mask at school. There are 2 others in the class of 26 kids wearing one too.

We explained why to her before schools opened and also told her that she may be alone in wearing one. She gets it.

I haven't asked my kids to wear one up to now. The older one probably would, the younger one hates them, and when the schools went back I suppose I wanted everything to be as normal for them as possible. There is a few other kids in the class that wear masks for at least a portion of the day.

I'm thinking I'll send them in with their masks tomorrow. I think they'd get it too and with the increase in cases, it is probably the right thing. Even if they only wear them for a portion of the time, it has to be better than not wearing one at all.