3xh wrote: » Then if that’s the case, that’s the case. But even red country citizens are allowed travel into Green and Amber countries under the new plan. And the guards won’t be able to stop people travelling to the airport either. They couldn’t do that even in April and May. For the whole summer it’s been this blinkered droning about ‘close the borders’ without actually getting how stupid that is. And it’s largely because of the lazy media taking the easy way out with supportive click bait articles instead of explaining how it can’t happen.
3xh wrote: » Good night, johnire.
3xh wrote: » Ok, so let’s for a moment stop all holiday air travel, etc. What’s the travel transmission % now? You don’t know. How many of the Covid cases comes in from essential service travel like hauliers etc. Or other workers needing to travel abroad and back. It’s one of those catch-all claims, ‘Close the Borders’ The majority of air freight in and out of Ireland takes place on normal passenger aircraft. Not dedicated cargo aircraft. Will you stop with this fallacy that banning John and Mary from heading to wherever it is they’re going is going to stop transmissions worthy enough of banning flights that also import/export food, goods, medicine. I have to wonder, if NPHET never recommenced the quarantine, or the passenger locator form, or advised the government to spend loads on media shaming stories about travel or if NPHET said ‘in our view international travel is fine, there’s no reason to see any negatives to it,’ would you still be going on the way you are? I doubt it. Listening to your arguments, imo, you’re just parroting without thinking of the effects and logistical nightmare your border shutdown would bring.
theological wrote: » If this is how coronavirus can spread to 30 people from one couple who had been away over a weekend, it shows how even a small proportion of people who are infected abroad could lead to major community spread. I agree that other things like reducing social contacts are important but it is important to stop new infections coming into Ireland and other countries at their root cause also to stop the virus spreading further and to get it under control. Claiming that travelling abroad isn't a problem is ostrich syndrome. Reducing non-essential travel would reduce the number of people bringing new imported cases of coronavirus into the country. If it was just hauliers it would be easier to deal with than if it was thousands of people going on holiday.
theological wrote: » I agree it isn't related to international travel but it proves that the 2% chestnut isn't really that helpful. If a pair of people can transmit to 30 others then two people who return from a high infection country and then continue socialising could lead to a major outbreak in weeks. That's the nail in the coffin to this argument.
faceman wrote: » Your argument is hypocritical selective perpetuating a false reality
faceman wrote: » The argument “it’s not forever” is short sighted and dangerous. It’s been 7 months nowand is likely going to be another 3-7 years. Are you suggesting families don’t see each other for that period of time? What exactly do you think is the end game strategy?
faceman wrote: » The point is that international travel is no more riskier than staycations, trips to pubs and restaurants in Ireland etc etc. If travel is to a region that has less coronavirus than Ireland then you’re safer there. Many European countries have stricter standards than Ireland too.
faceman wrote: » Talk of importing the virus to Ireland is nonsense. The virus is already here and in circulation.
faceman wrote: » If you want to stop travel for the risks it carries, then you’ll want to close pubs, restaurants, non essential shops here too.
faceman wrote: » But what’s the end game? Zero covid? Not even Paul Reid thinks that’s realistic Flatten the curve? It’s already flattened, check the stats Reduce number of deaths? The only way to truly eliminate fatalities is zero covid. But even if that was an option, doing so will result in increased fatalities in other areas of health who got unprioritised as we seen from March to now. Is that something we are willing to continue? The argument “it’s not forever” is short sighted and dangerous. It’s been 7 months now and is likely going to be another 3-7 years. Are you suggesting families don’t see each other for that period of time? What exactly do you think is the end game strategy?
theological wrote: » The end game is zero coronavirus in Ireland. I'd like that strategy in the UK also. Anything else is just giving up.
theological wrote: » What's false about it? There are documented cases of this happening. It is how the virus entered Ireland to begin with. What's false is people saying that international travel in the pandemic is not a significant risk when it obviously is.
theological wrote: » I've explained the difference between domestic and international travel already. Basically shared data and domestic track and trace can control this in national borders. In addition people shouldn't travel to any areas under local restrictions. I've replied to this point repeatedly already. Track and trace is not really possible in an international context.
theological wrote: » I mean track and trace across borders is challenging. For example tracing contacts of those who have travelled back to the source of infection in another country. The reality is that zero coronavirus within Ireland and other countries is possible but people don't want to take the measure necessary. Taiwan did it by restricting travel. Ireland could too.
Tenzor07 wrote: » Stop comparing Ireland with a country which is completely different culturally, economically and politically, apples and pears! Steps like the Covid tracing app now working across countries plus the other measure I described are just as effective. You can't trace every single infection but using existing measures you can trace clusters/outbreaks. Closing borders, opening, closing business, opening is what the zero covid approach means, yo-yo'ing for years, and it's becoming worse than the disease and is a false method of trying to control the uncontrollable.. even you have to admit that.
saabsaab wrote: » It's not uncontrollable, the lockdown worked. We have to wait till a vaccine and it won't be years away, where did you get that? probably a few months more.
Tenzor07 wrote: » The lockdown while it flattened the curve, look where we are now... Do you want yo-yo restrictions for the next 3 years? Do you think business and economies are designed to be opened up and shut down constantly? If you call you bank manager and tell them you can't pay your mortgage every 2nd or 4rd month or pay your electric bill do you think they will say "ah sure pay me when you have it" ... no, you'll be out on the street...
theological wrote: » If it saves lives. Yes. I'm open to enduring another lockdown if necessary to limit the spread of the virus where I am in London in the winter and to save hospital capacity. Nobody wants restrictions but the only way not to have them at all is to eradicate the virus.
saabsaab wrote: » Where o where are you getting this 3 years thing? Probably for another few months..
Tenzor07 wrote: » Ha! You're funny, you think the general public across the globe will all have a safe effective brand new never tried before vaccine in "another few months" January maybe? I think you're listening to Donald Trump too much, promising one in time for the U.S elections!
Pre-departure Covid-19 testing at Dublin and Cork airports could be made available to passengers by mid-October with government assistance, the Oireachtas Transport Committee has heard.
is_that_so wrote: » Possible good news on airport testing.https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40060880.html
saabsaab wrote: » Shouldn't it be the other way around? Testing before people come in.
