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Where are the deaths coming from?

[Deleted User]

The official figure we are using for the deaths is currently 1802. According to the HPSC report on 02/09, only 447 cases were admitted to ICU. It is very strange that the number admitted to ICU is only a small fraction of the deaths.

I don't believe the figures are available, but I do believe that a very good percentage of ICU cases recover? Obviously the number that died in ICU is a lot lower than 447. Does anybody have these stats?

So it seems like we have about 1500 - 1600 deaths or so that never went to ICU. So where are these cases coming from?

In the over 65 category, there are 164 that went to ICU and 1658 deaths.
Is it a case that most of these people were just too sick to go to ICU? For example, a lot of the deaths would have been already suffering from terminal cancer, late stages of COPD, heart disease, Diabetes etc.

We also test every single person that dies for Covid. The test itself is quite sensitive. Is it a case that already dead people are testing positive and thus included in the figures?

Of course I know that the government/CMO have admitted to overstating the deaths and including possible/probable in the figures.

Anybody any thoughts or input? Surely anybody with even a remote chance of survival goes to ICU when there is capacity available? And we've always had capacity.

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[Deleted User]

copeyhagen wrote: »

ok, so now its not long term, but short to medium, gotcha, just keep moving your goal posts when proven wrong.

So, are you actually prove me wrong or just accuse me of moving the goalposts? At this point it appears that you've added absolutely nothing to the discussion.

_Whimsical_

ranto_boy wrote: »

Current CDC estimates - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

For people aged 20-49 (most here I imagine), your chance of surviving corona is 99.9998%.

You have to bare in mind that a long haul covid syndrome is becoming increasingly common and at present we do not know what the outcome of that will be. James's hospital was featured on the news today and their research so far is that 50% of patients are still reporting disabling symptoms several months after infection, even those who had mild illness. A lot have not been able to return to work. If we were to look at this running rampant though our young society it could have consequences we can't currently anticipate, mass absence of health staff and teaching staff for example as a potential 50% struggle to recover. The stringent restrictions won't last, as we learn more in time and can be confident of a full recovery of the young we will be able to change things accordingly. Right now by stemming the flow we are at least buying some valuable time.

Skyfloater

MOH wrote: »

WTF? Of course I can. People are people, a death is a death.
Somebody in their 80s isn't magically worth less because of their age.

See if your viewpoint changes when you're 83.

Really?
Imagine that you and your 15 year old daughter are visiting your 83 year old mother. You agree to do her shopping for her, but when you come back the house is on fire. You look in the window to see both your mother and daughter unconscious on the floor.
Who do you pull to safety first?

GT89

billybonkers wrote: »

But there is a risk of death if you get it. It affects many people differently.

We're meant to be protecting everybody in this situation with a particular focus on the elderly and vulnerable. I certainly don't want to get it or any of my family to get it.

There is also a risk of getting hit when you cross a busy road.

Everyone would would prefer them or their family not to get sick. I would prefer not to get the flu but I don't go locking myself in my house over it.

Russman

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The public will not (yet) support this. They have been hammered with covid fear propaganda 24/7 for 6 months and going. Government, NPHET and media have made a thorough job on that one.

You really think its a concerted effort ? Why would government, NPHET and the media do this then ?

GT89

Russman wrote: »

You really think its a concerted effort ? Why would government, NPHET and the media do this then ?

I could answer that but would probably be banned

arccosh

a concerted effort for what?

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

There is also a risk of getting hit when you cross a busy road.

Everyone would would prefer them or their family not to get sick. I would prefer not to get the flu but I don't go locking myself in my house over it.

Well, it's not the flu is or crossing the road though, is it?

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

I could answer that but would probably be banned

Why would you be banned??

[Deleted User]

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The public will not (yet) support this. They have been hammered with covid fear propaganda 24/7 for 6 months and going. Government, NPHET and media have made a thorough job on that one.

Do you genuinely believe this? Do you realise the sheer scale of people involved if there was some sort of propaganda conspiracy going on? There's no chance that literally everyone involved would keep quiet.

Zebra3

Skyfloater wrote: »

Really?
Imagine that you and your 15 year old daughter are visiting your 83 year old mother. You agree to do her shopping for her, but when you come back the house is on fire. You look in the window to see both your mother and daughter unconscious on the floor.
Who do you pull to safety first?

Probably some would check with the virtue signalers on social media first and both would end up dying.

FintanMcluskey

circadian wrote: »

Well, it's not the flu is or crossing the road though, is it?

No, it much less dangerous than crossing the road or the flu for anyone not over 65 and obese

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No, it much less dangerous than crossing the road or the flu for anyone not over 65 and obese

How many people does the flu kill under 65? We can all twist statistics.

Are you saying that the flu is more deadly than covid-19 in the under 65s? That would be amazing news if true. As always, source?

pjohnson

Christ the relaxations thread is overflowing now.

[Deleted User]

douglashyde wrote: »

Median age of death = 83, Comorbidity very high well over 90%.

Technocrats & civil servants lack imagination and only know blunt force options, they're also swayed easily by the simple story which right now is 'case numbers'.

There needs to be serious pressure from business groups, media commentators, the medical community and most importantly, the public.

As a member of the medical community, why would I want excess deaths and extra strain on the HSE?

3xh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As a member of the medical community, why would I want excess deaths and extra strain on the HSE?

That’s right. Suicides tend not to burden the health service.

It’s the counselling offered for the subsequent years to distraught relatives where the burden manifests itself, which you won’t see.

And a lack of income tax receipts don’t bother the HSE either. The government will get the money to the frontline staff anyway through yet more borrowing.

And that’s before the last tranche of public service pay rises take effect this October because ‘it was already agreed’

You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The government and NPHET are simply stuck on rails now and cannot change tack until something tangibly new and different happens for them to hang their hat on. Otherwise, the obvious question will be; well what was the past x months about then?!

OMM 0000

3xh wrote: »

The government and NPHET are simply stuck on rails now and cannot change tack until something tangibly new and different happens for them to hang their hat on. Otherwise, the obvious question will be; well what was the past x months about then?!

"No one knew we could have avoided lockdowns".

*cough* East Asia *cough*

bobbyy gee

in America the ventilator death rate is 40%
down from 80%

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/intensive-care-units-cannot-cope-with-another-wave-of-covid-19-1.4348703?mode=amp

CalamariFritti

Russman wrote: »

You really think its a concerted effort ? Why would government, NPHET and the media do this then ?

Nothing malicious. No conspiracy.
Compliance is the big one I think. Any hint this isn't all that bad and people will jump ship.
And of course justification for the measures. Lets not forget its not about not going to the pub for everyone. For a lot of people there are livelihoods at stake.
Its serious enough what is being done so that the ultra serious deadly disease storyline needs to be kept up.

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No, it much less dangerous than crossing the road or the flu for anyone not over 65 and obese

I see you're choosing to ignore previous comments regarding long term effects. No one has a looking glass to the future so surely being cautious rather than thinking once you have the virus it's all good, is the way to go? Isn't that the pragmatic thing to do? It's certainly the more difficult thing to do but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do in this case.

Ignoring trends arising from having this virus would be a very silly thing to do. There is massive potential for a string of health issues that last much longer than a Covid-19 infection lasts.

da_miser

10 people died of Covid19 in The UK today, the panic merchants wants to shut down the entire country, at the same time 450 people die per day in The UK of cancer, dont see a clamor to ban cigarettes or other carcinogenics.
In fact i see that The UK population are rejecting the new Draconian restriction Boris tried to implement, and he is now rowing back on them trying to save face.
No doubt in my mind, its nowhere as dangerous as the powers that be are saying it is, so why are they pushing this BS on the public?
Are the politicians really thick or do they have a agenda?

da_miser

Russman wrote: »

You really think its a concerted effort ? Why would government, NPHET and the media do this then ?

Government, NPHET and the media are made up off , for a better term the nerds, uncool people, and now for the first time everyone in the nation is hanging on their every word, they love the attention, the focus is on them and now that they are not being ignored by the public for the first time in their lives they dont want to give it up.

Explain the complete lack of Covid19 panic in Belarus, 100s of thousands out protesting daily, yet no mountain of dead from covid.
BLM can march in huge numbers and no Covid problems.
Russia supposedly hit hard by Covid according to the western news, yet the Russia F1 GP on Sunday and the stands where packed with fans.

da_miser

eddie73 wrote: »

Yes, that is a good point.

But how would the business groups argue against cases such as New York, Brazil, Mexico etc and Mexico's younger death demography?

The dillema that will be thrown right back at them will be this is what will happen if we do nothing.

Practically all the young folk that die are obese and/or with underlying health conditions.
The current life expectancy for Ireland in 2020 is 82.35 years, the vast majority of Covid deaths in Ireland are people over 80, so they are on the way out anyway, why are we destroying the economy for this?
The young will be left to pick up the pieces after Covid, every week the countries economy is running at a diminished capacity makes the recovery harder and more likely that the public elect a politician/Government from the hard Left or Right, i don't think that is what anyone wants.

da_miser

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

You have to bare in mind that a long haul covid syndrome is becoming increasingly common and at present we do not know what the outcome of that will be. James's hospital was featured on the news today and their research so far is that 50% of patients are still reporting disabling symptoms several months after infection, even those who had mild illness. A lot have not been able to return to work. .

BINGO!
€350 a week for getting Covid and not being able to work.
Why would you go back to a minimum wage job when you can get the same or more on the Covid payment?

IAMAMORON

I don't think there is any conspiracy at play here.

However there is a sense of comfortability in the routine. The virus is enabling the existence of people now?

It has been political for months and it is not difficult to see through or in fact develop a cynical eye over how this is playing out.

The elephant in the room is the schools back. I find it disconcerting that RTE are hell bent on insinuating that the north are to blame for spikes. Even on the 6 o'clock today the northern correspondent was flicking mud at the administration of Queens university over his opaque responses to RTE questions. They didn't like that so the mmmmmming and the sinister eye were spilled across your TV screens. It was telling that no rep agreed to appear on screen either, they basically gave RTE the fingers. Good.

There does appear to be a heavy incentive to keep the kids in school. I have no issue with that either, in fact it will lead to better immunity going forward. That is another honker which no politician wants to get caught spoofing about down the line.

But no doubt there is a propaganda emphasis on beefing up positive numbers and raising levels up and down as they deem fit. I mean reading between the lines, they don't seem all that fussed about the increase in figures?

bobbyy gee

Projected deaths 19000

https://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

IAMAMORON

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Projected deaths 19000

https://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

That is garbage.

I reckon we might get another 500 -1000 max.

dwayneshintzy

Saviola1978? wrote: »

Absolute bullsh!t. The current numbers of 1802 covid deaths is lies. The governement are filling us with crap and people are believing them. I know that some older people who died of natural causes had there deaths recorded as covid.

And who do you know this?

Zookey123

Budawanny wrote: »

Alot of people will have requested a DNR (do not resusitate) , or there families will as per the patients wishes.
DNR means no ICU.

Im not sure where you are getting that information from. DNR patients can be placed in ICU they just cant be resuscitated once their heart stops.

Russman

da_miser wrote: »

Government, NPHET and the media are made up off , for a better term the nerds, uncool people, and now for the first time everyone in the nation is hanging on their every word, they love the attention, the focus is on them and now that they are not being ignored by the public for the first time in their lives they dont want to give it up.

Explain the complete lack of Covid19 panic in Belarus, 100s of thousands out protesting daily, yet no mountain of dead from covid.
BLM can march in huge numbers and no Covid problems.
Russia supposedly hit hard by Covid according to the western news, yet the Russia F1 GP on Sunday and the stands where packed with fans.

So the nerds love the spotlight and attention they never got in school, so they thought they’d crash the economy to get some of the good lovin’ and then keep it crashed because by God this oul attention lark is good fun eh ?

Anytime you’re using Belarus as a point of reference, you’re probably not on the right side of the debate imo. Isn’t it gas how people believe news stories from ex Soviet republics without question and then claim a western democracy is conspiring and has an agenda to crash its society and economy for the craic ? WTF.