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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

brianhere

All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. Here are a few reasons why:
a) Because they already have shown that they are stringing people along. The publicans, for example, have been assured every couple of weeks for the whole summer that they will be allowed to reopen, but the government had no intention of allowing this. First it was to stop the spread of the disease altogether, then it was 'flattening the curve' and now it is in response to an increase in cases which they know perfectly well had to follow an increase in testing. You don't want to be the donkey chasing the carrot here!

b) Because they have invested so much money and time in changing the whole apparatus of society, in schools for example, and other places. Clearly these changes were not implemented in order to disappear in only a few weeks, they show the planning and expense of permanent measures.

c) Because the state has a record of never releasing back to the population rights that they seized during some panic. A few examples:
i) During the hype about TB in the 1950s the state introduced a voluntary scheme to control the disease in cattle. It involved those who had tested negative for the disease to be given a special tag and the farmer a 'herd number'. This voluntary scheme then evolved into the state controlling all aspects of agricultural activity by only allowing any such activity - even keeping a few hens - with the permission of the state, via compulsory herd numbers.
ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. This was a great shock to the legal profession - even to the then President - and affront to the time honoured legal practices in Ireland but it was rushed through on the basis of sunset clauses whereby it would have to be renewed every year, and hence was temporary. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.
iii) After 9/11 and some hyped episodes like 'underwear bombers', this state and all around the world introduced time consuming and very intrusive security procedures particularly at airports. This of course is still with us long after the scare has died down.

d) This last point I am sure some of you will not get, but I will make it anyway. These measures are being rolled out precisely because they have huge social and population control advantages for the state, hence they are only piggy backing on the virus to do what they have all along planned to do, and hence have no intention of ever releasing you in the future from their newly introduced grip.

So look if you want to get your life back you should join the demonstrations next Saturday at 2.00pm at the Customs House and the Dáil in Dublin. You will not get released from this vice otherwise, they will compel you to harm your own health via vaccines and masks (of course it harms your health by restricting your breathing, and harming your health does not help somebody else), and otherwise we will descend further into this nightmare of Communist style spying on neighbours and bullying people in the name of social conformity.

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Meathman12

Dionaibh wrote: »

muzzles

I haven't seen any muzzles. And if you mean people are muzzled (prevented from speaking) that's it true.

breezy1985

one world order wrote: »

Spending eternity in hell and being tormented by the Devil's demons. Is that really what you want?

I don't believe in hell, eternity or demons so I'm good.

Meathman12

brianhere wrote: »

ii) Similar to this current panic, in the 1970s the state amended earlier WWII legislation to enable it to abolish jury trials. Of course it is still with us long after the troubles have ended.

Most people moan about doing jury duty. The state finds it difficult to fill jury panels.
Its true, the special criminal court still operates. Recently high profile criminals were tried there. Currently an accused ISIS member is there.

Should we really disband this terrible court.

MOH

Dionaibh wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Is there an end date for the mask mandate?

I don't know, I'm not doing everything for you.

Why don't you go and find what piece of legislation it's in, and look it up for yourself?

GT89

Meathman12 wrote: »

I haven't seen any muzzles. And if you mean people are muzzled (prevented from speaking) that's it true.

Both metaphorically and plainly speaking yes. It is very hard to hear people through a mask. You really have to listen closely to hear what people are saying otherwise often all you hear is a muffled voice which is impossible to understand.

Methaphorically speaking people who speak out against covid measures such as masks are being silenced by the msm and social media platforms like twitter and facebook.

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

Both metaphorically and plainly speaking yes. It is very hard to hear people through a mask. You really have to listen closely to hear what people are saying otherwise often all you hear is a muffled voice which is impossible to understand.
.

So because it's slightly harder to hear people, they are muzzles?
That's a very hyperbolic notion.

Usually the moment anyone calls masks "muzzles" their credibility takes a sharp nose dive.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

So because it's slightly harder to hear people, they are muzzles?
That's a very hyperbolic notion.

Usually the moment anyone calls masks "muzzles" their credibility takes a sharp nose dive.

And that being me on to my next point the masks are a methaphor for the silencing of opposing views. No rational human being goes out and thinks it's a good idea to cover their face. It is not a rational decision for people to wear masks they are worn by people for two reasons because people see others doing it monkey see monkey do or they are paranoid

Meathman12

GT89 wrote: »

No rational human being goes out and thinks it's a good idea to cover their face.

In many Asian cities people have worn masks or face coverings previously some for pollution reasons, some for religious reasons.
Will you concede that it's amazingly hypocritical that some people at anti mask protests are seen wearing face coverings to prevent identification. Surely you'll condemn these people.

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

And that being me on to my next point the masks are a methaphor for the silencing of opposing views.

But so far the "opposing views" we are seeing are along the lines of global conspiracy/religious apocalypse/anti science stuff.

And the silencing is more along the lines of people pointing out those ideas are a bit silly.

What opposing views and what silencing are you referring to?

GT89 wrote: »

No rational human being goes out and thinks it's a good idea to cover their face. It is not a rational decision for people to wear masks they are worn by people for two reasons because people see others doing it monkey see monkey do or they are paranoid

They can help limit the spread of a virus during a pandemic.

GT89

Meathman12 wrote: »

In many Asian cities people have worn masks or face coverings previously some for pollution reasons, some for religious reasons.
Will you concede that it's amazingly hypocritical that some people at anti mask protests are seen wearing face coverings to prevent identification. Surely you'll condemn these people.

I don't live in Asia I don't know about their culture nor do I really care about their culture as it's got fúck all to do with Ireland or Europe. I don't know anything about people covering their faces at "anti mask" protest. Also they are not anti mask proteets they are anti covid restrictions protests as masks are not the only issue they have.

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

But so far the "opposing views" we are seeing are along the lines of global conspiracy/religious apocalypse/anti science stuff.

And the silencing is more along the lines of people pointing out those ideas are a bit silly.

What opposing views and what silencing are you referring to?

They haven't been proven to be any of the above. This is a new virus right isn't it so how can anyone be an expert in it. No ones studied the area of covid before so until such time as qualified experts in covid are around their predictions have zero credibility. Look at Neil Ferguson as a prime example who's projections were completely amd utterly false.

They can help limit the spread of a virus during a pandemic.

Cases have gone up since their widespread adoption so that is not yet proven

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

They haven't been proven to be any of the above.

What are you refering to here?

GT89 wrote: »

No ones studied the area of covid before

This is simply untrue.
Untruths are common in conspiracy theories.

GT89 wrote: »

Cases have gone up since their widespread adoption so that is not yet proven

Ok. So why are experts and health professionals recommending their use?
Are they not as informed as you?
Are you just better at medicine and smarter than them?
Are they spreading misinformation because of a global conspiracy?

GT89

King Mob wrote: »

This is simply untrue.
Untruths are common in conspiracy theories.

So are you saying that people have degrees in the area of covid now. It takes four years to get a degree and covid has only been around a year.

Ok. So why are experts and health professionals recommending their use?
Are they not as informed as you?
Are you just better at medicine and smarter than them?
Are they spreading misinformation because of a global conspiracy?

What experts are you referring to? To say masks work in prevention against covid is pure guess work. The so called experts know about as much as you or in the field of covid as they have not studied it. They couldn't possibly study it as it's a new disease.

timetogo1

GT89 wrote: »

So are you saying that people have degrees in the area of covid now. It takes four years to get a degree and covid has only been around a year.

Do you think people get degrees in specific diseases?

Anyway covids have been around before Covid 19. I think the first human coronavirus were around in the 1960s.

[Deleted User]

GT89 wrote: »

So are you saying that people have degrees in the area of covid now. It takes four years to get a degree and covid has only been around a year.

Lol no.
This is a very silly line of argument you are trying to use.
It sounds a bit like you've no idea what you're talking about.

GT89 wrote: »

What experts are you referring to? To say masks work in prevention against covid is pure guess work. The so called experts know about as much as you or in the field of covid as they have not studied it. They couldn't possibly study it as it's a new disease.

Oh ok. So they only know as much as you do.
So why do they say masks can help?
Are they just stupid?

greenspurs

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

And dont forget your tin foil hats!

cgq300 wrote: »

I'd be more concerned of the health impacts the weight of wearing your tin foil hat will cause than the health impact of wearing a mask if I were you.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

OP, I can't believe you forgot to mention the deep state controlling our minds with 5G.

OMG, they have got to you already :eek:

totally expected.... Deniers have the usual retort for anyone that doesn't follow "government guidelines"

Sheeple

Dohnjoe

greenspurs wrote: »

totally expected.... Deniers have the usual retort for anyone that doesn't follow "government guidelines"

Sheeple

I am guessing this is sarcasm, but if not, deniers of what exactly?

4068ac1elhodqr

Since last Thurs (24 Sept) businesses (designated types and organisations, including hospitality, close contact services, and leisure venues) in England, MUST (by law) display a QR Code Poster, at their entrance, or face a £1,000 quid fine if they don't.

Since this introduction, there have been some situations where folks have been 'refused service' due to them not scanning such digital identifer codes on their mobiles (maybe they didn't have {smart}phones on them, it was out of battery power, or they just didn't want to scan them).

For a business of course, it saves on staffing costs by not asking for a quick name and contact number, but for the common person this presents a pressure to always carry a smarthpone (not a dumb phone), and to leave digital signatures, perhaps until the end of the covid (which is like never). For marketeers this could be a wet dream, they can use a secondary QR to pester folks with offers once the relentless QR scanning thing becomes the norm.

miezekatze

Kaelyn Itchy License wrote: »

Since last Thurs (24 Sept) businesses (designated types and organisations, including hospitality, close contact services, and leisure venues) in England, MUST (by law) display a QR Code Poster, at their entrance, or face a £1,000 quid fine if they don't.

Since this introduction, there have been some situations where folks have been 'refused service' due to them not scanning such digital identifer codes on their mobiles (maybe they didn't have {smart}phones on them, it was out of battery power, or they just didn't want to scan them).

For a business of course, it saves on staffing costs by not asking for a quick name and contact number, but for the common person this presents a pressure to always carry a smarthpone (not a dumb phone), and to leave digital signatures, perhaps until the end of the covid (which is like never). For marketeers this could be a wet dream, they can use a secondary QR to pester folks with offers once the relentless QR scanning thing becomes the norm.

This is not the norm though, you can generally scan it or you don't.

I'm constantly seeing conspiracy nutters accusing mainstream media of scaremongering for just reporting facts on social media. Scaremongering is what you are doing right now.

4068ac1elhodqr

miezekatze wrote: »

This is not the norm though, you can generally scan it or you don't.

There have been cases already (reported in mainstream media, online newspapers etc) of people being refused access, denied service or goods because they didn't (or can't if no smartphone present).

Yes there is the paper and pen option, however a business can decide to refuse entry if is already busy and does not have someone at hand to jot down details, hence: refused access and service.

Many old folks have simple phones, in the coming months, as this does become the norm... they may well start to discover they're not wanted if some busy waiter etc. hasn't got a spare 5mins and pen, paper to attend to them. Of course you'd probably call this old wans nutters etc.

brianhere

Thats shocking Accumulotor, and I am pretty unshockable about this. Anybody who has eyes to see can surely see that we are turning into a Chinese Communist Party type of society, rapidly. The virus has nothing to do with it.

4068ac1elhodqr

brianhere wrote: »

Thats shocking Accumulotor, and I am pretty unshockable about this. Anybody who has eyes to see can surely see that we are turning into a Chinese Communist Party type of society, rapidly. The virus has nothing to do with it.

Well perhaps the excellently run Valenzuela* to begin with, later the Chinese social point scoring system perhaps as witness by the (pre-covd) lockdown lads, QRCoding themselves in oblivion over in Xinjiang, whilst getting a re-education.

*‘NO QR Code, NO Entry’ policy in Valenzuela starts on October 5

miezekatze

Kaelyn Itchy License wrote: »

There have been cases already (reported in mainstream media, online newspapers etc) of people being refused access, denied service or goods because they didn't (or can't if no smartphone present).

Yes there is the paper and pen option, however a business can decide to refuse entry if is already busy and does not have someone at hand to jot down details, hence: refused access and service.

Many old folks have simple phones, in the coming months, as this does become the norm... they may well start to discover they're not wanted if some busy waiter etc. hasn't got a spare 5mins and pen, paper to attend to them. Of course you'd probably call this old wans nutters etc.

Why would I call someone a nutter for not having a smartphone? I can see the problem and it probably does happen occasionally, but I do think you are blowing this out of proportion a bit.

4068ac1elhodqr

As well as the push to ensure everyone has a trackable digital identifer or digital footprint, and to dump their perfectly good simple old school Nokia with 10days battery life

There is a larger issue with the use of QRCodes, for the non-techie (mostly older) folks.
A QRCode scan, on a (data rich) user's smartphone, is the 'perfect vector' for users, and their data to be edited, modified, hacked, misdirected or indeed scammed.

The only way around this would be to assign a scanable QR type code (as a unique, persistant, lifellong identifer) to the person themselves, not for them to accept one created by a 3rd party.
Of course this is likely on the way, but not for some time yet, and has it's own concerns also.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kaelyn Itchy License wrote: »

There have been cases already (reported in mainstream media, online newspapers etc) of people being refused access, denied service or goods because they didn't (or can't if no smartphone present).

Yes there is the paper and pen option, however a business can decide to refuse entry if is already busy and does not have someone at hand to jot down details, hence: refused access and service.

Many old folks have simple phones, in the coming months, as this does become the norm... they may well start to discover they're not wanted if some busy waiter etc. hasn't got a spare 5mins and pen, paper to attend to them. Of course you'd probably call this old wans nutters etc.

I live in England, I havent scanned a single time anywhere i have been, your making it out like its compulsory when it's not.

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I live in England, I havent scanned a single time anywhere i have been, your making it out like its compulsory when it's not.

Your making out you don't understand the previous post, or failing to understand simple facts, or twisting for dramatic effect.

Certain categories of business or venues must by law (only since 24 Sept, Eng) have a QRCode Poster at their entry point, or they will be fined 1,000 notes (at first offence).

Certain business owners within these, may choose, by themselves on their own accord (various reasons e.g. low staffing, no pen, no paper) to refuse service to anyone not scanning these posters on smartphone, or wanting to use pen and paper instead.

4068ac1elhodqr

Of course most cafes, diners etc are desperate for customers (retail are having it worse than anyone).
But the ones that are busy, or having a busy hour, can by choice, tell the customer to 'get lost' if the don't have a smartphone app scan, at point of entry.

Timberrrrrrrr

Kaelyn Itchy License wrote: »

Your making out you don't understand the previous post, or failing to understand simple facts, or twisting for dramatic effect.

Certain categories of business or venues must by law (only since 24 Sept, Eng) have a QRCode Poster at their entry point, or they will be fined 1,000 notes (at first offence).

Certain business owners within these, may choose, by themselves on their own accord (various reasons e.g. low staffing, no pen, no paper) to refuse service to anyone not scanning these posters on smartphone, or wanting to use pen and paper instead.

Yes, they are there for people who have chosen to download the track and trace, there is nothing to say people must use it, can you show any business that has turned people away for want of pen/paper?

My local has a book inside the door you can sign and put your number down if you choose to use that option, no staff time taken up. You're just scaremongering as usual over things that "could" happen in your own version of some sort of distopoian future that is made up inside your head.

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

can you show any business that has turned people away for want of pen/paper?

Yes, there are plenty of reports of denial of service, across various media (press and twitter) and it's only been introduced as a facility just days ago.
It may be a small minority, but it does set a precedence.

Pen and paper are often not available when you need it most, ideally everyone would have a pen in their shirt pocket and a notepad in the back pocket too.

The issue around QRCode safety remains, anyone can stick a poster up with this usin custom code e.g. on a closed/vacant shop and use it for data hacks.

[Deleted User]

Kaelyn Itchy License wrote: »

Yes, there are plenty of reports of denial of service, across various media (press and twitter) and it's only been introduced as a facility just days ago.
It may be a small minority, but it does set a precedence.

The issue around QRCode safety remains, anyone can stick a poster up with this usin custom code e.g. on a closed/vacant shop and use it for data hacks.

Again you say there's reports and make vague scary statements about the future.
Neither of which is supported.

Classic scaremongering.