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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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Sconsey

DaSilva wrote: »

Is that not the potential issue though? That short of sterilising immunity means you can be infected, and potentially still transmitting, so it might not prevent you passing it to your family, but might prevent you ending up in hospital

I think that is still one of the big unknowns...if a vaccine is capable of enabling the immune system to kill the virus, will the virus be killed before the stage at which a person starts shedding the virus?

I don't think we know that yet but I would be hopeful that a good immune response kills the virus to the point that it does not get the chance to reproduce in sufficient numbers to let people spread it. Or at least to the point that vaccinated people are shedding much smaller loads?

Obvsiously this is just my laymans understanding based on limited understanding.

Gael23

Le Bruise wrote: »

I don't think they were saying a vaccine is pointless, just that it won't end things straight away.

For lay people, a return to normality is the end point, and for most of the first world that comes with the first batch of vaccine development.

For the WHO I assume that end point is total suppression and an end to the pandemic on a global scale. Unfortunately, I don't think many developing countries will see a vaccine for quite a while.

As a lay person I would define an end point as a return to life before last March

Le Bruise

Gael23 wrote: »

As a lay person I would define an end point as a return to life before last March

That's what I mean by return to normality. Not new norm, but normal pre-covid. Won't happen straight away, but fingers crossed by summer time 2021 (eternal optimist).

ACitizenErased

Major new study published in the highly esteemed 'Cell' journal predicts higher immunity in the public than previous antibody related studies suggest.

A new study from Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital shows that many people with mild or asymptomatic COVID-19 demonstrate so-called T-cell-mediated immunity to the new coronavirus, even if they have not tested positively for antibodies. According to the researchers, this means that public immunity is probably higher than antibody tests suggest. The article has been published in the esteemed scientific journal Cell.
https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

Link to the paper: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31008-4

CiarraiManc

Le Bruise wrote: »

That's what I mean by return to normality. Not new norm, but normal pre-covid. Won't happen straight away, but fingers crossed by summer time 2021 (eternal optimist).

Summer 2021 is way too soon. Remember there were people who thought covid would be long done and dusted with by now.

Account Number

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-drug-treatment-5211489-Sep2020/
Someone with better knowledge than me care to explain to us plebs how this works?

Miike

Account Number wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-drug-treatment-5211489-Sep2020/
Someone with better knowledge than me care to explain to us plebs how this works?

Had a quick read of the paper in Science. In simple terms is appears as though the SARS-CoV-2 virus has a 'pocket' which harvests and stores Linoleic Acid inside the virus or otherwise disrupts the Linoleic Acid metabolic pathways in the human host. Linoleic Acid is not produced in the body, we take it in through foods mostly and it plays a viral roles in cell membrane maintenance, immune response modulation and the functions of epithelial cells. If this virus is harvesting Linoleic Acid/disrupting the metabolic pathways, it could explain why it does what it does to (a) the epithelial tissues in the body (a large body of experts considering COVID19 to be an epithelial disease) and (b) the effects SARS-CoV-2 has on the human immune system. The proposition being this could be the focus of a therapy.

Kind of a very... cursory explanation at best - I'm really tired.

Also, I can add more thorough reading on the roles of Linoleic Acid etc if you'd like.

Stark

Makes sense. Though I'm guessing as it with most media reports of early discoveries, we're a long way away from an actual therapy based on this knowledge?

timsey tiger

Miike wrote: »

Had a quick read of the paper in Science. In simple terms is appears as though the SARS-CoV-2 virus has a 'pocket' which harvests and stores Linoleic Acid inside the virus or otherwise disrupts the Linoleic Acid metabolic pathways in the human host. Linoleic Acid is not produced in the body, we take it in through foods mostly and it plays a viral roles in cell membrane maintenance, immune response modulation and the functions of epithelial cells. If this virus is harvesting Linoleic Acid/disrupting the metabolic pathways, it could explain why it does what it does to (a) the epithelial tissues in the body (a large body of experts considering COVID19 to be an epithelial disease) and (b) the effects SARS-CoV-2 has on the human immune system.

Kind of a very... cursory explanation at best - I'm really tired.

Also, I can add more thorough reading on the roles of Linoleic Acid etc if you'd like.

It's like the chinese whispers game for science.

is_that_so

Stark wrote: »

Makes sense. Though I'm guessing as it with most media reports of early discoveries, we're a long way away from an actual therapy based on this knowledge?

It's still good to see a new piece of information about the virus identified. We definitely need a lot more of that.

Le Bruise

CiarraiManc wrote: »

Summer 2021 is way too soon. Remember there were people who thought covid would be long done and dusted with by now.

You'd be fairly relentless with the old negativity wouldn't you?:rolleyes:

Micky 32

RTE reporting some positivity:

Scientists believe they may have discovered a new way to combat the Covid-19 virus.

An international team from Bristol University believes that small molecule anti-viral drugs could be developed to help stop the virus from infecting human cells.

Sars-CoV-2 is the virus that causes Covid-19.

The scientists have found a "druggable" pocket within a Sars-CoV-2 spike protein which they hope could lead to new anti-viral drugs to shut down and eliminate the virus before it enters human cells.

They describe the findings, published in the Science journal, as a potential "game changer" in defeating the current pandemic.

Spike proteins, which are on the surface of the virus, are a key element for infections of the human cells.

The researchers found a small molecule, linoleic acid, buried in a tailor-made pocket within the spike protein.

Linoleic acid (LA) is a free fatty acid, which is needed for many cellular functions and cannot be produced by the human body.

LA plays a vital role in inflammation and immunity levels, and it is also needed to maintain cell membranes in the lungs to help people breathe properly.

Professor Imre Berger said: "Our discovery provides the first direct link between LA, Covid-19 pathological manifestations and the virus itself.

"The question now is how to turn this new knowledge against the virus itself and defeat the pandemic."

The team used a powerful imaging technique, called an electron cryo-microscopy (cryo-EM), to analyse the Sars-CoV-2 spike.

A 3D structure of the Sars CoV-2 spike protein was generated allowing the researchers to peer deep inside the spike and identify its molecular composition.

The researchers spotted LA in a pocket within the spike protein. Prof Berger described the research team as having been "truly puzzled" by the discovery and its implications.

Professor Imre Berger (Image: University of Bristol)
Prof Berger said: "So here we have LA, a molecule which is at the centre of those functions that go haywire in Covid-19 patients, with terrible consequences.

"And the virus that is causing all this chaos, according to our data, grabs and holds on to exactly this molecule - basically disarming much of the body's defences."

The team have found hope from previous studies on the rhinovirus, which is a virus that causes the common cold.

They said that a similar pocket was exploited to develop potent small molecules which were successfully used as anti-viral drugs in human trials in a clinic.

The Bristol team hope a similar strategy can now be used to develop small molecule anti-viral drugs against Sars-CoV-2.

The team included experts from Bristol UNCOVER Group, Bristol biotech Imophoron Ltd, the Max Planck Institute for Biomedical Research in Heidelberg, Germany and Geneva Biotech Sàrl, Switzerland.

Hmmzis

Some light reading about genetic drift and mutation rates in SARS-cov-2.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/09/18/2017726117.full.pdf

It looks positive for vaccination efforts as the mutation rate is, to quote the article - "remarkably low".

Bonniedog

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 6,000 Covid related deaths(most had underlying conditions), 0.06% of the population.

There is no wondering needed.

What a comparison between Ireland and Sweden shows is that the mortality rates, and the incidence among different age cohorts are almost identical.

Which proves that keeping schools open and not insisting on masks is no better or worse than shutting schools and enforcing masks.

Most glaring similarity is the massive proportion of deaths in both countries which were of the elderly and particularly within the care homes where the medical profession and the state already has 24/7 supervision of those under "care."

Of course there are also those who argue that Sweden is in a better place now if you look at the current infection rates, but of course they can change.

Gael23

Even the government now expressing optimism of a vaccine in early 2021

funnydoggy

Gael23 wrote: »

Even the government now expressing optimism of a vaccine in early 2021

House party in Gael23's house in March

:D:D

Gael23

funnydoggy wrote: »

House party in Gael23's house in March :D:D

Let’s wait for my 30th birthday in April😂

ACitizenErased

Gael23 wrote: »

Let’s wait for my 30th birthday in AprilðŸ˜‚

We better be invited :pac:

Santy2015

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We better be invited :pac:

I’ll supply the sweets!

funnydoggy

I'll bring the beer! Anyone for corona? :pac:

Micky 32

funnydoggy wrote: »

I'll bring the beer! Anyone for corona? :pac:

Who’s gonna bring the girls??

mandrake04

Gael23 wrote: »

Even the government now expressing optimism of a vaccine in early 2021

Is that supposed to be more reassuring?

Micky 32

mandrake04 wrote: »

Is that supposed to be more reassuring?

Probably not as reassuring as being a misery merchant i’m sure.

smurfjed

...

Russia is so confident in its COVID-19 vaccine that it will shoulder some of the legal liability should anything go wrong, rather than requiring buyers to take on the full risk, the head of the state fund bankrolling the project told Reuters.

The decision leaves the vaccine's state-backed developers open to potentially costly compensation claims should there be any unexpected side-effects. It is something many vaccine-makers have sought to avoid, by asking for full indemnity - complete protection from liability claims - from nations they sell to.

The approach is different from many places in the world. In the United States, for example, liability for COVID-19 vaccines has been shifted fully to the US government. This shields the developers because widespread inoculation against the disease is considered a benefit to society.

With the global vaccine race hotting up, and dozens of candidates being tested on humans, backers of Russia's 'Sputnik-V' shot see liability as a key battleground as they aim to capture market share.

"Russia is so confident in its vaccine that it has not asked for full indemnity and this is a major differentiating factor versus any Western vaccine," said Kirill Dmitriev, head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), the state sovereign wealth fund that is backing the vaccine.

"All of them are asking for full indemnity of legal risks."

Dmitriev did not say whether buyers of the Russian vaccine would be asked to take on partial liability, and did not give details about indemnity clauses. His representatives said he had nothing more to add.

However, the health secretary of the Brazilian state of Bahia, which plans to buy 50 million doses of Russia's vaccine, told Reuters the legal risks would be carried by Russian entities.

Vaccine developers around the world are compressing years of development into months, raising the possibility of unexpected consequences and making the issue of compensation claims a key point in supply deal negotiations.

For example, British drugmaker AstraZeneca, which has developed a vaccine with Oxford University, has been granted full protection from any future liability claims by many countries with which it has signed supply deals, a senior executive told Reuters in July.

Dmitriev's comments came after some scientists expressed concerns about the safety and efficacy of Sputnik-V, which the Russian government approved for use before completing large-scale human trials.

D.Q

Haha trying to sue the Russian government would probably have a smaller chance of survival than any potential side effect.

Polar101

D.Q wrote: »

Haha trying to sue the Russian government would probably have a smaller chance of survival than any potential side effect.

They would just say "there is no evidence this was caused by the vaccine, so sorry".

Le Bruise

Polar101 wrote: »

They would just say "there is no evidence this was caused by the vaccine, so sorry".

....and then there would be no evidence of you having existed, ever!;)

PopePalpatine

D.Q wrote: »

Haha trying to sue the Russian government would probably have a smaller chance of survival than any potential side effect.

Why worry about something that isn't going to happen?

Gael23

Off to a good start if the flu vaccine is a trial run https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0922/1166739-covid19-ireland/

is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

Off to a good start if the flu vaccine is a trial run https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0922/1166739-covid19-ireland/

From IT version of that, without the outraged GPs.

"Dr Henry said there had been some delays in the arrival of the flu vaccine, but further batches were due to arrive soon with sufficient quantities for the population."