robinph wrote: » No he hasn't. Things "such as organised team sport" will be exempt from the new laws and what the "such as" bit refers to hasn't been spelt out anywhere as of yet. All the new law is intended for is to give the police additional power to break up gatherings, the guidelines were no more than 6 could meet up outside, that is then going to become a law that no more than 6 can meet outside. Doesn't change anything else as far as we know yet, and also doesn't affect parkruns return if their framework remains approved by the government, which is what the announcement two days ago was all about as it had been agreed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.
average_runner wrote: » Boris has shut it down now anyhow. Team sport can go ahead, no issue regarding team sport in Ireland at the moment
robinph wrote: » Here is a link to the research that parkrun funded to look into instances of outdoor transmission, which basically found nothing much at all to show it had happened:https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/02/rapid-review-of-evidence-for-outdoor-transmission-of-covid-19-published/
robinph wrote: » Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.
robinph wrote: » The change overnight is just making the gathering of group bigger than 6 against the law so that police can enforce it properly. There is no change from what the previous recommendations were or what guidance althetics clubs were following. Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.
robinph wrote: » Unless something new comes out regarding the risk of transmission in outdoor environments that would cause the UK government to backtrack don't see why it would need to be delayed until next year. A massive spike in hospital admissions might cause a return to complete lockdown in which case all bets are off, but at the moment that's not happening in the UK, or showing much signs of happening. If the current spikes in positive cases can be limited by restricting people gathering indoors then that wouldn't mean an outdoor event needs to be cancelled.
average_runner wrote: » We wont see one this year I say. Doubt UK will see it also. Let's hope next year brings more luck. Today's numbers were a disaster for alot of counties here sadly
robinph wrote: » That won't change though and parkrun HQ would consider that one of the things which would break parkrun if governments made 100% traceability before an event a requirement. Part of what makes parkrun work is the simplicity of just turn up and run. They would like you to have a barcode, but have never required it and will never require it. Unless governments mandate everyones movements to be 100% traceable 100% of the time, and that would be down to the government to enforce and carry out, then that kind of system isn't going to exist at parkrun. Whilst parkrun can't currently happen in Ireland, it is the government position that will need to shift towards what parkrun considers acceptable for it to restart their events. If Ireland say that events up to 500 can happen in parks but they still want 100% traceability then maybe parkrun would change their system, but I seriously doubt the government will require that when they allow those numbers to gather, and I seriously doubt that parkrun will take on the responsibility for confirming who else is wandering around the park at the time.
average_runner wrote: » Parkrun in the current format, cannot ensure that everyone who starts, is in their system and if one drops out they have no idea
OOnegative wrote: » https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/07/return-of-parkrun-announcement/
Sunny Dayz wrote: » I wonder would it be an idea to temporarily do away with the "no barcode, no time" rule? From my experience of parkrun, many of those without a barcode at an event were regulars who just happened to forget their barcode or people joining parkrun for the first time and not had a chance to print their barcode. I know manually putting in barcode numbers can take a bit of time. But can you do this with the phone system - I've only ever used scanners and processed results on the laptop.
average_runner wrote: » The part that lacks, is they cannot for sure say they have all contacts of the runners. Some won't have tokens and then there is no record of them. I have done parkruns in the past without a token or pull out at half way. They will have to track these people to enable it to start up.
robinph wrote: » But parkrun is also not an athletics club session with just a handful of people turning up. When events such as races resume do you expect the organisers to have to collect 100% contact tracing details of everyone on the course, all the spectators, all the people who happen to join in for a bit part way round? When outdoor gigs resume do you expect the details of every person with a ticket to be 100% reliable? Do you expect the contact details of every person through every pub door of an evening to be 100% reliable? There is no suggestion of parkrun restarting under the current requirements in Ireland. Once the regulations for Ireland change though to something that fits with the parkrun model, or with a couple of very minor tweaks, then it will return. But the 90%+ contact tracing of parkrun participants is going to be way above what any other similar sized event can achieve for all their participants and spectators.
average_runner wrote: » All athletic clubs have to have contact tracing for all their sessions, chances of picking it up in a session is low, but parkrun is not an exception. It's what the HSE has as the guideline to follow, clubs aren't doing it for fun
robinph wrote: » Why do they need 100% traceability? If an event is that big of a super spreader event then it will make local/ national/ international news and your not going to be worried about 1 person out of 400 who you couldn't track down as you are dealing with the other 399 people you are already treating and their further contacts. But I don't see a situation where parkrun or the contact tracing people need to send out anything to an entire event to trace their contacts. What could someone have possibly been doing at a parkrun that they potentially infect the entire field? If the RD went and licked every token before sorting them and each runner then went and licked them themselves then maybe, but other than that how do you infect the whole field? Maybe Bob gives Mary a hug at the finish because one of them got a longed for PB and Bob then tests positive, but that is then something between Bob and Mary as far as contact tracing goes. There isn't really any reason to contact the rest of the field or parkrun about that, and if Mary tests negative the chain stops there and no reason to follow further. You then want to know where else Bob has been, not the details of the runners who finished either 20 minutes before or after him at a parkrun on a rainy Saturday morning.
average_runner wrote: » They will have to track these people to enable it to start up.
robinph wrote: » What is lacking from the parkrun system as far as tracing is concerned do you think? They have names, they have ages, they have email addresses, they have phone numbers, in some cases they have some medical details, they have home postcode in some instances, they can tell approximately who you are likely to have been running next to, they could probably even tell which scanning volunteer you stood in front of for 2 seconds if they really wanted, they can tell to some extent if you are a local or not from your event history, they can tell what running club you belong to.
average_runner wrote: » Again I said sport and that's the standard they have to get to. All online
robinph wrote: » They already do have a system in place that is far more reliable than anything any pub or restaurant is doing, and certainly more than any list that any dog walker is keeping of who they might encounter on their stroll around the park with their pooch.
average_runner wrote: » But all outdoor sports currently have a good contact tracing system where u sign up in advance. Parkrun will need to do this in order to start here
DeepBlue wrote: » To my mind if they are opening pubs (indoors for an hour and 45 mins?) then really there can be no logical objection to reopening parkruns (up to max of 40 mins for most people).
chinguetti wrote: » Strange that they have gone ahead and announced a date for this with cases rising in the UK over the last few days and the R numbers believed to be on the rise too. Also announcing it to the media and not via parkrun email to core teams first seems odd and not normally the way parkrun does things. Also read a thread on Twitter about a doctor questioning why they are going to restart and pointing out the issues of running in groups and the risk of transmission. From reading it, alot of people seem to believe that the world can return to the way it was before and for now, that can't happen. I'd like parkrun to be back up and running again btw but there seems to be undue haste to get going from what I've read.
robinph wrote: » Being on one side of the border between England and Wales I'd not be overly concerned about numbers at the local events being overwhelmed. Would be if it was the other way round though. There is a couple of relatively small events on the Welsh side which could struggle if they were to open first, but the events on the English side here I think will barely notice an influx of numbers and there are enough of them that any mass influx will be spread around the area a good bit. Obviously will be different in other areas along the border, but along the E/W border I'm at the highest density population part of it. My main problem is we'd been trying to figure out which event might work best for us with a non buggy riding 5 year old now and which course would work best for one of us to run whilst the other picked up stones with the kid, and that I'd then have the best chance of catching the tail marshal before the line. Was thinking a couple of the Welsh ones would work best for us, now need to rethink that idea.
