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Masks

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I live in Stockholm. Went to the shop to buy fruit for my sons lunch. Dropped the kids off at school today. Went for breakfast. Drove my motorbike into the city centre to have coffee with my girlfriend. Went into two watch shops. Drove back home. Met my neighbors when I was parking my bike. Went back to the school to pick up the kids. Went home. I did not see one person wearing a mask.
    Does everyone’s right not to wear a mask in Stockholm trump everyone else’s right not to catch a deadly virus if no one is wearing a mask. I’m confused.

    I've seen the Swedish figures for covid-19 fatalities.
    They are worse than ours even accounting for our screwups in nursing homes.
    Thousands of unnecessary deaths.
    I wouldn't be taking their advice on anything related to covid-19.
    They are wrong on masks.

    There's a whole thread on the forum about Sweden.
    This is about masks.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,035 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    No: I don't care enough
    eleventh wrote: »
    So if something doesn't cause immediate effects then it must cause no effects - ok, and that's fairly typical of the thinking today.
    Wearing a mask for an hour every day won't harm most (not in the short-term anyway).
    The post being discussed was about someone experiencing health effects due to having to wear a mask all day, probably over weeks/months at this stage.

    It is comparable to smoking (as being another thing that obstructs breathing).
    Smoking once a day may not harm most people, but it would harm some, and is probably better avoided completely.
    Smoking all day for a few days/weeks won't kill a person, but long term, guaranteed they'll have respiratory issues - and covid is and will be a long-term phenomenon, in case that's not clear to people yet.

    I'm sure you'll be able to back this up with peer-reviewed research


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    eleventh wrote: »
    So if something doesn't cause immediate effects then it must cause no effects - ok, and that's fairly typical of the thinking today.
    Wearing a mask for an hour every day won't harm most (not in the short-term anyway).
    The post being discussed was about someone experiencing health effects due to having to wear a mask all day, probably over weeks/months at this stage.

    It is comparable to smoking (as being another thing that obstructs breathing).
    Smoking once a day may not harm most people, but it would harm some, and is probably better avoided completely.
    Smoking all day for a few days/weeks won't kill a person, but long term, guaranteed they'll have respiratory issues - and covid is and will be a long-term phenomenon, in case that's not clear to people yet.

    Masks are comparable to smoking? No they are not.
    Statement without any foundation or merit.
    Do masks come with nicotine tar and cancer causing substances?
    You can write this utter crap but don't expect it to convince anyone.

    All our dentists would be dead if this nonsense had any foundation.
    There isn't a single iota of truth in anyting you have written.
    You are talking nonsense.
    Stop spreading fake news.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭Hand in Your Pants


    Graham wrote: »
    nope

    A doctor based in Dublin, Ireland, made a video showing him wearing six face masks to set the record straight on masks and their impact on oxygen levels.


    Doctor is measuring oxygen level incorrectly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭Spiderman0081


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I've seen the Swedish figures for covid-19 fatalities.
    They are worse than ours even accounting for our screwups in nursing homes.
    Thousands of unnecessary deaths.
    I wouldn't be taking their advice on anything related to covid-19.
    They are wrong on masks.

    There's a whole thread on the forum about Sweden.
    This is about masks.
    I thought I was talking about masks. Ok I’ll go back to the Sweden forum. I didn’t mean to make noise in the church


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    eleventh wrote: »
    The post being discussed was about someone experiencing health effects due to having to wear a mask all day, probably over weeks/months at this stage.

    Like medical professionals the world over?

    It's odd that they manage ok don't you think.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Masks are comparable to smoking? No they are not.
    Statement without any foundation or merit.
    Do masks come with nicotine tar and cancer causing substances?
    I said they were comparable not "the same as" !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    I thought I was talking about masks. Ok I’ll go back to the Sweden forum. I didn’t mean to make noise in the church

    Looks like you just popped by to inform us you living in Stockholm, good for you. So you were pointed to Sweden thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    Graham wrote: »
    Like medical professionals the world over?

    It's odd that they manage ok don't you think.
    Didn't nurses and doctors have a higher incidence than the general population. Remembering back to March/April now. Mask wearing when the general population wasn't back then didn't seem to protect much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    eleventh wrote: »
    I said they were comparable not "the same as" !

    Yeah, poster didn't say they are the same as. God you would have to be in some outer space to say that. But just looking at my cigarette and my mask and have serious problem to compare them :D Will need some guidelines..


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    eleventh wrote: »
    Didn't nurses and doctors have a higher incidence than the general population. Remembering back to March/April now. Mask wearing when the general population wasn't back then didn't seem to protect much.

    Of not being able to breath?

    No, I don't think so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭Hand in Your Pants


    robinph wrote: »
    And incase you missed it, why does your desire to not wear a mask trump my right to live?

    His right not to wear a mask absolutely trumps your 'right to live' as you call it. Your responsibility to protect yourself on the basis of your particular understanding of the virus, your understanding of the nature of transmission, and your understanding of the efficacy of masks is your business alone. Otherwise we would all be subject all of the time to the whims of hypochondriacs everywhere.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    His right not to wear a mask absolutely trumps your 'right to live' as you call it.

    No, it really doesn't. Morally or legislatively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Yes: surgical
    eleventh wrote: »
    I said they were comparable not "the same as" !

    Yeah, you did.

    You compared inhaling fumes/particles to something that can prevent inhaling of fumes/particles...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    eleventh wrote: »
    Didn't nurses and doctors have a higher incidence than the general population. Remembering back to March/April now. Mask wearing when the general population wasn't back then didn't seem to protect much.

    You're changing the goalposts here in a dishonest manner.
    You were talking about long term effects of general mask wearing.
    An allegation clearly and very obviously demonstrably false by the example I cited.
    I talked about healthcare staff as an example of people who have worn masks for decades during their duties. Where are these supposed health effects you are alleging?
    Truth is they don't exist cos you are spreading fake science.

    As for covid-19?
    They were on the wrong people.
    They should have been on the patients as well as the staff.
    It's been clearly shown that most masks are more effective at reducing transmission by stopping an infected patient spreading it via droplets - than at actually directly protecting a wearer from the virus.
    That's the reason so many health staff got infected in March, early April.
    And why cases suddenly dropped in late April to May when the masks were used to prevent transmission.
    It's the reason those countries which adopted masks early such as th Czech Republic had far fewer cases than places like Ireland which got it wrong at the start.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    His right not to wear a mask absolutely trumps your 'right to live' as you call it. Your responsibility to protect yourself on the basis of your particular understanding of the virus, your understanding of the nature of transmission, and your understanding of the efficacy of masks is your business alone. Otherwise we would all be subject all of the time to the whims of hypochondriacs everywhere.



    Are you having some pr exercise here?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    Try going for a ten mile run with a mask on. No wait don’t, every doctor in the world would advise against it. I wonder why

    Pah, 10 miles is hardly worth getting out of bed for.

    How about 22 miles?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/doctor-face-mask-oxygen-running-tom-lawton-yorkshire-a9633916.html%3famp


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    His right not to wear a mask absolutely trumps your 'right to live' as you call it. Your responsibility to protect yourself on the basis of your particular understanding of the virus, your understanding of the nature of transmission, and your understanding of the efficacy of masks is your business alone. Otherwise we would all be subject all of the time to the whims of hypochondriacs everywhere.
    My right to life is also protected by various other things, such as the requirement for you to follow traffic laws, or manufacturers having to comply with health and safety laws or chemical companies having to not contaminate the water supply, or people having to not drive drunk. Loads of laws which are for the benefit of people other than those who are being restricted by those laws

    Nothing at all unusual about the government mandating something for you to do that is solely for the reduction in risks to others.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I wonder are some of these having issue with wearing a mask trying to deepthroat or consume the mask?


    Maybe masks just need much much clearer instructions.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    robinph wrote: »
    They could set up a mask-wearing olympics, in a similar vein to those All you can eat contests they have in the US.
    Extreme behaviour of individuals.

    If they really want to test things, get a random sample of 100 mask-wearers off the street, see how they do running 1km or so. Have a control group of non-masked do the same. Repeat the test over time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    eleventh wrote: »
    They could set up a mask-wearing olympics, in a similar vein to those All you can eat contests they have in the US.
    Extreme behaviour of individuals.
    If they really want to test things, get a random sample of 100 mask-wearers off the street, see how they do running 1km or so. Have a control group of non-masked do the same. Repeat the test over time.

    You've given the game away by your "extreme behaviour" line.
    Utterly absurd irrelevant and false comparison to the wearing of masks in everyday duties, shopping or on transport.
    It's like using running a marathon as the basis for the long term effects of a daily jog.

    To show how ridiculous your comparison is...
    Let's have a control group of people of runners.
    (a) Some are dressed in running shoes, shorts and a vest.
    (b) Some are in tuxedos and dress shoes.
    (c) Some are carrying a backpack and holding up an umbrella.
    We could reasonably expect (a) to be fastest.

    Does it tell us anything about the long term health effects of wearing a tuxedo and dress shoes?
    Nope. Of course it doesn't.
    Because it's a false comparison.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    eleventh wrote: »
    They could set up a mask-wearing olympics, in a similar vein to those All you can eat contests they have in the US.
    Extreme behaviour of individuals.

    If they really want to test things, get a random sample of 100 mask-wearers off the street, see how they do running 1km or so. Have a control group of non-masked do the same. Repeat the test over time.

    tenor.gif

    Sry, back to image posting :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    odyssey06, I wasn't talking about speed. The post I replied to wasn't either.
    You can always ask for clarification if you don't understand something (rather than go off on a rant etc).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Measc.ie FFP2 and surgical along with some face coverings were tested by Mater surgery this week. No results yet, not expecting any surprises, will be good to have data though and share data from an Irish source.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    No: other
    pjohnson wrote: »
    I wonder are some of these having issue with wearing a mask trying to deepthroat or consume the mask?


    Maybe masks just need much much clearer instructions.

    Have you tried wearing a mask for 8 to 10 hours in a very hot environment?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bush wrote: »
    Have you tried wearing a mask for 8 to 10 hours in a very hot environment?

    Which of the specified premises, services or businesses operate in a "very hot environment"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Any of the anti mandatory maskers on this thread want to meet in the city center later for a mask off?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    No: other
    Graham wrote: »
    Which of the specified premises, services or businesses operate in a "very hot environment"?

    A kitchen


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,053 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    No: other
    Seanergy wrote: »
    Any of the anti mandatory maskers on this thread want to meet in the city center later for a mask off?

    You mean 2pm at the custom House? Apparently there's a nutjob gathering scheduled for then.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bush wrote: »
    A kitchen

    Do you have a link to that requirement? I can't find it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    No: other
    Graham wrote: »
    Do you have a link to that requirement? I can't find it.

    Required by my employer. Are you suggesting i shouldn't wear it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭AUDI20


    No: other
    Hehe. The lack of oxygen is apparent
    Haven't seen anyone falling down yet from lack of oxygen for wearing a mask. and if your out running 10miles you don't need one.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bush wrote: »
    Required by my employer. Are you suggesting i shouldn't wear it?

    Not at all. Well done your employer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    Stark wrote: »
    You mean 2pm at the custom House? Apparently there's a nutjob gathering scheduled for then.

    Would be nice to see cops finally doing something, if the gathering will break the safety measures


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    xhomelezz wrote: »
    Would be nice to see cops finally doing something, if the gathering will break the safety measures

    Like the protests for that American criminal guy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    Like the protests for that American criminal guy?

    Hopefully this time they'll actually do something, if the rules are broken


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Yes: surgical
    bush wrote: »
    Required by my employer. Are you suggesting i shouldn't wear it?

    I doubt distance can be maintained in any working kitchen environment, what option does your employer have really?

    There are also cooling products out there that can help if heat is the issue:

    https://www.techniche-intl.com/products/evaporative-cooling-skull-caps-6536
    https://www.techniche-intl.com/products/evaporative-cooling-neckbands-6519


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    No: other
    saneman wrote: »
    I doubt distance can be maintained in any working kitchen environment, what option does your employer have really?

    There are also cooling products out there that can help if heat is the issue:

    https://www.techniche-intl.com/products/evaporative-cooling-skull-caps-6536
    https://www.techniche-intl.com/products/evaporative-cooling-neckbands-6519


    Its just a response to people who think wearing a mask is easy. Easy if your working at home and put it on for 5 mins to go get milk ye.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Tork


    Yes: to protect others
    Bush, you're unfortunate in that your job is one where mask wearing is particularly uncomfortable. For the vast majority of people, mask wearing is a small part of their day and something that may not even happen every day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭RoYoBo


    Yes: valved
    bush wrote: »
    A kitchen

    I sympathise, bush - a busy kitchen must be one of the worst places to have to wear a mask for a long period of time. With the impossibility of keeping any kind of distance from co-workers, it's also the riskiest place if you don't wear one.

    I hope you can get plenty of breaks and some attention to cooling from your employer perhaps?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Jaysus I thought my job was bad but wearing a mask in a kitchen sounds awful. Kitchen staff in a restaurant I was in there recently weren't wearing them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,531 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    GT89 wrote: »
    Jaysus I thought my job was bad but wearing a mask in a kitchen sounds awful. Kitchen staff in a restaurant I was in there recently weren't wearing them.

    Nobody is wearing them where the public can’t see them. Same in my place of work. It’s all for show. Go down the factory floor and not one person wears one. It’s far too much to expect of people to wear a mask for 12 hour shifts. I do about 30-35k walking per shift, absolutely no way in hell im wearing one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    robinph wrote: »
    I do have a right to not be infected by your failure to wear a mask because <something> though.

    Someones weak genes are no one else’s concern. It’s evolution. It removes the weak genes from the pool by making them weak and vulnerable to disease that others can fight off. It’s been happening for millennia. Happens in all living things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,522 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    Someones weak genes are no one else’s concern. It’s evolution. It removes the weak genes from the pool by making them weak and vulnerable to disease that others can fight off. It’s been happening for millennia. Happens in all living things.

    Another totally incorrect interpretation of evolution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Nobody is wearing them where the public can’t see them. Same in my place of work. It’s all for show. Go down the factory floor and not one person wears one. It’s far too much to expect of people to wear a mask for 12 hour shifts. I do about 30-35k walking per shift, absolutely no way in hell im wearing one.

    I was out for dinner last night, you could see into the kitchen. None of the chefs were wearing masks. Didn’t bother me. The servers were.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    Someones weak genes are no one else’s concern. It’s evolution. It removes the weak genes from the pool by making them weak and vulnerable to disease that others can fight off. It’s been happening for millennia. Happens in all living things.

    Sure superman

    Getting very close to win the most stupid post award, come on try harder to get the first prize, you can do it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    xhomelezz wrote: »
    Sure superman

    Getting very close to win the most stupid post award, come on try harder to get the first prize, you can do it

    Never heard of evolution no? Survival of the fittest?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,286 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    Never heard of evolution no? Survival of the fittest?

    That’s not real, it’s all a hoax. No evidence for it. RTE propaganda.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    Never heard of evolution no? Survival of the fittest?

    Lol man, as I said keep trying and you'll get the gold medal.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Stark wrote: »
    You mean 2pm at the custom House? Apparently there's a nutjob gathering scheduled for then.

    sure did ;) all keyboard and no dancing shoes


This discussion has been closed.
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