Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Deleted User wrote: »

I do....but i also understand the difference between murder and capital murder

This is also wrong....everyone is equal in a republic....except when they get murdered....to my eyes this is wrong.....either bring in 40 years for all murders,or for none

No, you are wrong.

Part of the price for having an unarmed police force is that the decent ordinary people in the force like McCabe and Donohoe get killed by criminal thugs and criminal gangs like the IRA from time to time. The only protection is more serious penalties for such lowlifes.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The lack of evidence he actually pulled the trigger being the elephant in the room,you are unable to explain?

The only reason this is in the news,is to distract from.the balls ffg have made of opening up the country and we are headed backwards and towards another lockdown

There was no lack of evidence, the jury decided there was enough.

The only reason this is in the news..... poor SF.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The lack of evidence he actually pulled the trigger being the elephant in the room,you are unable to explain?

The only reason this is in the news,is to distract from.the balls ffg have made of opening up the country and we are headed backwards and towards another lockdown

The reason this is in the news is because a political party that breeds a culture whereby it’s members are afraid to report a murder without the thumbs up of the party hierarchy- will always be big news.

There’s an even greater level of need to report this considering it was a member of the national policing force & the fact that SF has a fairly chequered history with regard to their interactions with such

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You do in my eyes....he isnt a murderer

Kinda a tacit admission there of what i said all along,there is no evidence he pulled the trigger

Your eyes isn’t the law, dude.

Thanks be to jaysus.

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except im.not wrong.....if everyone supposedly equal....why deos punishment for murdering 1 person be more severe than murdering another

All the rants isnt going to change this fact.....ypu either believe in equality,or not imo

To follow your logic why are “hate crimes” legislated for, based on race, sexuality, religion etc?
Surely everyone is equal before the law?

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ya...imagine thinking you needed evidence someome done it,before convicting em of murder

Jaysus :rolleyes:

Eh he was found guilty by a jury of Irish citizens. Are you suggesting he was framed or something, or that the jury was interfered with to find him guilty?

It’s a bit difficult to understand what you are trying to say, dude.

Deleted User wrote: »

Hard to blame someone for having chequered history with em....they can get yous put away for something you not done

Your boys didnt shoot Gerry McCabe & then get Reichmarschall Ferris to collect the convicted murders from jail?

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Your boys didnt shoot Gerry McCabe & then get Reichmarschall Ferris to collect the convicted murders from jail?

The hill on which the latest 'outrage' will die.

The break in the case came in February 2017 when the witness contacted Louth Sinn Féin Cllr Antóin Watters through Facebook and told him he had information. Mr Watters put him in touch with Mr Marry.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hill on which the latest 'outrage' will die.

You are not getting this - the issue is not that SF provided some evidence on the case, the issue is that, due to fear, the evidence had to go through them.

I know you get this but will keep on shouting some nonsense to try deflect but, direct question, surely you agree that it is odd that the witness felt that they had to get approval from SF to bring the evidence forward?

A simple yes or no will suffice

Truthvader

Deleted User wrote: »

Hard to blame someone for having chequered history with em....they can get yous put away for something you not done

Again, why oh why are the Sinn Fein IRA supporters pushing this ridiculous story that poor little Aaron is not guilty. Even more baffling when we learn today that Slab and the boys gave "permission" for one of their members to give evidence. WTF is going on???

jm08

jh79 wrote: »

The article says the witness said he didn't know "where he stood" not that he was afraid. And who the hell is gonna try to intimidate a member of SF anyways !

And what does ''where he stood'' mean. As to your 2nd point. I believe both Michelle O'Neill and Gerry Kelly have received death threats from dissident republicans fairly recently.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-vice-president-michelle-o-neill-targeted-by-dissident-plot-1.4170433?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-vice-president-michelle-o-neill-targeted-by-dissident-plot-1.4170433

Deleted User wrote: »

My boys?? Piss poor attempt at an ad homeinem attack....if you cant discuss without getting personal,perhaps its time to bow out??

That was murder though imo....also taught ffg were a joke not releasing them under the gfa,and it basically said to families of ruc men killed,a gaurd life is worth more than yours.

Theres no need for me to 'bow out' - you are being called out for defending a convicted murder & now you are asking people to leave the thread? Cop on to yourself

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You are not getting this - the issue is not that SF provided some evidence on the case, the issue is that, due to fear, the evidence had to go through them.

I know you get this but will keep on shouting some nonsense to try deflect but, direct question, surely you agree that it is odd that the witness felt that they had to get approval from SF to bring the evidence forward?

A simple yes or no will suffice

It isn't in the slightest bit odd. Some of the membership of SF are not 'normal' in the sense that they have come through a conflict/war that put them in a place were they didn't trust the security forces on both sides. That will take maybe a generation to disappear.
I raised this on the Aaron Brady thread but it was decided it was off topic.

I find nothing odd that somebody outside the country would do something like this. The councillor handled it as he should though.

jm08

christy c wrote: »

Anyway this is distracting from SF being in the news yet again. Some people might want to discuss it, although personally I'm more turned off by their unbelievably stupid proposals such as pension age, tax, etc.

So you must also be turned off by Labour and Fianna Fail (most parties except Fine Gael) who supported a retirement age of 66.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't in the slightest bit odd. Some of the membership of SF are not 'normal' in the sense that they have come through a conflict/war that put them in a place were they didn't trust the security forces on both sides. That will take maybe a generation to disappear.
I raised this on the Aaron Brady thread but it was decided it was off topic.

I find nothing odd that somebody outside the country would do something like this. The councillor handled it as he should though.

Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

I find the fact that such a culture exists within a political party to be extremely worrying

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

I find the fact that such a culture exists within a political party to be extremely worrying

Not my problem if you wish to deny realities.

The post conflict/war reality is that many many people do not trust the security force north and south.

[Deleted User]

jm08 wrote: »

And what does ''where he stood'' mean. As to your 2nd point. I believe both Michelle O'Neill and Gerry Kelly have received death threats from dissident republicans fairly recently.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-vice-president-michelle-o-neill-targeted-by-dissident-plot-1.4170433?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-vice-president-michelle-o-neill-targeted-by-dissident-plot-1.4170433

The witness might not of wanted to be seen as a "tout". Remember when McCartney was murdered? A bus load of SF members where in the pub that night and saw nothing because Jock was a "Good Republican".

christy c

jm08 wrote: »

So you must also be turned off by Labour and Fianna Fail (most parties except Fine Gael) who supported a retirement age of 66.

Yes, incredibly stupid without any hint of an alternative.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't in the slightest bit odd. Some of the membership of SF are not 'normal' in the sense that they have come through a conflict/war that put them in a place were they didn't trust the security forces on both sides. That will take maybe a generation to disappear.
I raised this on the Aaron Brady thread but it was decided it was off topic.

I find nothing odd that somebody outside the country would do something like this. The councillor handled it as he should though.

Thanks for that. At long last, an admission that Sinn Fein members are not normal and that they don't trust the security forces in this State.

Barry Cowen was unfit to be a member of government because he wouldn't accept the word of the security forces. Because of the predilections of Sinn Fein members, as pointed out by you, the only logical conclusion is that Sinn Fein, as a party is unfit for government for maybe a generation.

jm08 wrote: »

So you must also be turned off by Labour and Fianna Fail (most parties except Fine Gael) who supported a retirement age of 66.

Is this the Fianna Fail thread?

Look, there is hardly a single sensible policy in Sinn Fein's manifesto.

Even if someone could manage to live with the stink of being associated with Sinn Fein and vote for them as persons (which I could never do), most of their policies are absurd and their tax policies are delirious.

blanch152 wrote: »

Thanks for that. At long last, an admission that Sinn Fein members are not normal and that they don't trust the security forces in this State.

Barry Cowen was unfit to be a member of government because he wouldn't accept the word of the security forces. Because of the predilections of Sinn Fein members, as pointed out by you, the only logical conclusion is that Sinn Fein, as a party is unfit for government for maybe a generation.

Some members of all parties are not 'normal' blanch. Want to compare?

The elected SF member did as he should here and gave Gardai the break in the case. Any kudos for him for doing that?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Is this the Fianna Fail thread?

.

Less than five minutes apart.....

Irony much.

blanch152 wrote: »

Barry Cowen was unfit to be a member of government because he wouldn't accept the word of the security forces. Because of the predilections of Sinn Fein members, as pointed out by you, the only logical conclusion is that Sinn Fein, as a party is unfit for government for maybe a generation.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some members of all parties are not 'normal' blanch. Want to compare?

The elected SF member did as he should here and gave Gardai the break in the case. Any kudos for him for doing that?

No, the fact it was necessary is the problem.

blanch152 wrote: »

No, the fact it was necessary is the problem.

It was felt necessary by a single person.

The stretching and stretching to make this something it isn't, is hilarious.

Again...any kudos for the councillor for doing what he did...give the Gardai 'the break' in the case?

Dum dee dum dee dum...I would say we will wait for that.

hatrickpatrick

markodaly wrote: »

You admire them for 'floating like the wind' but then want them to stick to their policies which... float like the wind? Let me say to you, you will be disappointed.

The housing crisis is only going to get worse under a neoliberal government, so I doubt the wind will be changing direction any time soon.

The problem with left-wing politics in Ireland is that they over-promise with easy solutions but when in power, realise its a lot more difficult in reality.
Do you honestly think if Labour could deliver on everything they campaigned for in 2011, they would have? It is not as if they decided in some smoke-filled room the night of the election to just abandon everything, they did what they could, which was actually a lot, but in a coalition, one has to compromise.

They chose to stick by FG after FG immediately regressed to the same FF-style cronyism and corruption which they made opposition to a core tenet of their 2011 election manifesto. This was when I first became disillusioned with both parties. What was unforgivable for me was Labour sticking by Alan Shatter during the various justice scandals of 2014 in which Shatter made it abundantly clear that as minister for justice, he was part of the "blue wall of silence". He should have been sacked immediately and Labour should have insisted on this if they had the slightest shred of integrity.

The Greens are learning that too and are running scared.
It looks like they could jump before the year is out and where will that leave us? Another election, is that what you want?

God yes. I would relish another opportunity to get FF and FG out of power altogether, especially having come so, so close just months ago.

Rents have actually tumbled a lot the past 6 months

This is an extremely temporary COVID-related situation and we all know it won't last.

but anyway, this bit is a highly simplistic take on the situation. One would swear even if he above is true, that that is all FG ever did.
Issues with social housing can be put squarely at the feet of the LA's, especially in Dublin. How did DCC do the past 5 years or so?

DCC repeatedly voted to build more social housing in the biggest public estate in Dublin and were blocked by FG, who wanted more private housing sold at full market prices on the site. Once again, FG's "property as an asset and not as a home" ideology is the problem.

I highly doubt this, I really do. Not every young person lives in inner city Dublin by the way, so perhaps you are getting a slant on what 'some' you people say.

Most young people aspire to live in an urban area at least for a time, and all urban areas in Ireland are experiencing obnoxiously high rents.

No doubt that younger people are feeling the pinch more than older people. I don't deny that, but again this is bigger issue in the Western world than what is happening in Ireland.

If you don't deny it, then why are you surprised that we're voting left wing? Why does this have to be spelled out for you?

The issue of housing is complex and is one faced by pretty much every country. If you want to talk about that per say, we can.

Allowing existing property to be perpetually used as an investment vehicle is the central problem. The idea that I can hoard excess property even though I already have somewhere to live, for the sole purpose of price gouging, and this is considered morally acceptable in our society, that's the problem. The idea that housing shouldn't be considered a public service like healthcare, education, etc - that's the problem. That will never change under a government who are fully bought in to the "using the purchase of property to store wealth and fund one's retirement - f*ck the younger generation and how this utterly destroys their quality of life" model of what housing is and what housing should be.

The idea that there's no such thing whatsoever as social responsibility, and that if I have the money to bulk-buy housing when I already have somewhere to live - just so I can charge through the f*cking nose for someone else who needs somewhere to live and exploit their desperation - that's the problem. Hoarding during a crisis is wrong. Using housing as a means of storing wealth is wrong. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the entire concept of "passive income" is itself detrimental to society. But none of these issues will ever be on the table for discussion, or within what's known as the "Overton Window", as long as "I'm alright Jack" neoliberalism remains the dominant political force in the West.

Hence I and many other young people support left wing politicians who might change this entire paradigm and be willing to look at changing how society operates from the ground up, root and branch. Starting with the repugnant idea that hoarding during a crisis isn't something one should be considered and out-and-out [i[asshole[/i] for choosing to engage in, out of pure, selfish, heartless, unempathetic greed.

One of the things I can identify with, is that the wheels of government just turns too slowly, much too slowly. MM mentioned this in a Sunday Indo interview some months back, as to things that needs to change. But that requires some serous reform of the Civil Service and make it both accountable and fit for the 21st century.

Do you see this happening under the cronyist "jobs for the boys" culture which pervades both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail?

Now if SF or others had an actual plan to overhaul the CS and make it thus, then I would listen, but all I hear from them is that everything is wrong because of said minister, when in reality, the minister is just the public face of a Dept. and really not much would change if this person is different.

That's a fair comment and I'd like to see that too. But as far as I'm concerned, overhauling the very basic tenets of what counts as "productive" economic activity has to come first. Owning an excess of something that somebody else built doesn't count as a "job", and the people who do it are ruining the lives of thousands of other human beings. It's time governments stopped pandering to them.

Being a landlord during a housing crisis is no different, morally speaking, to bulk-buying PPE at the beginning of a worldwide pandemic just so you can sell it on at a massive, price-gouging premium. Everyone was united as one when it came to condemning that, and as far as I'm concerned the only reason it's controversial to say the same about property is because so many people have skin in that game and don't like being told that they should be ashamed of themselves for forcing an entire generation of young people to fund their retirement through utterly obscene rent prices.

That's why I'm voting left. I don't just want to see tweaks made to the system, the system itself is the problem and it has to be fundamentally replaced with something which works better. The current situation throughout the west is one of using ownership and hoarding of land and property as a means of pursuing a gigantic, inter-generational transfer of income from young to old. It's wrong, it's immoral, it's obscene, and it has to stop.

Colonel Claptrap

Gerry Adams gave the nod before the witness made a statement to Gardai.

Bizarre situation.

Truthvader

Only in the twisted compromised world of Sinn Fein is there a double think requirement before assisting the Guards. No decent person has to wonder whether it would be alright. Because of course it might be OK to murder a guard. And they still tell us there is no fear in the community.

Truthvader wrote: »

Only in the twisted compromised world of Sinn Fein is there a double think requirement before assisting the Guards. No decent person has to wonder whether it would be alright. Because of course it might be OK to murder a guard. And they still tell us there is no fear in the community.

Do you remember a victim of heinous sexual abuse saying she went to the police about it and that the police were more interested in the accused's brother?

Do you even begin to give any thought to a scenario that some people are scarred by their dealings with the security forces on both sides of the border and how police have dealt with them?

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you remember a victim of heinous sexual abuse saying she went to the police about it and that the police were more interested in the accused's brother?

Do you even begin to give any thought to a scenario that some people are scarred by their dealings with the security forces on both sides of the border and how police have dealt with them?

Think many many more people have been "scarred" by their dealings with Sinn Fein IRA. Anyway as ever you will equivocate and justify any and all savagery and criminality. I leave it to other posters to decide whether the guards are more trustworthy that Gerry, Mary Lou, Slab and the rest of your heroes